Printable View
I agree with you MajMike. Why is it the people seem to think they must choose either science OR religious faith? Make your own version of faith and tie it in with your own scientific beleifs. thats all anything in your mind realy is anyways, just a belief.
the world is flat... well that's what they used to think , based on the best available evidence. What the scientific community perceive at any moment in time is based on the tools available to science at that point, and the language available to express that perception. Then, sooner or later, something comes along to blow that perception out of the water, the old rules are suddenly seen to be flawed or inadequate. All of which probably means that we will never know, at least not in our current state of existence, whatever that is.
Ever changing our beleifs and perceptions
That constant changing of our beliefs and perceptions is our personal evolution, and on a macro scale the societal evolution we see taking place before our eyes both here in North America and (through CNN and the web) in the rest of the world.
The only constant is change, adapt or die.
I dont think the majority of the people here responding are using the idea that only one or the other can exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmanWalter
The problem lies in the fact that you ask how we got here if God didnt put us here, which would be a valid question if you werent using a non proven dependant as the basis for your question.
You have no proof that God exists. God could very well be an idea in your head, or a magical little leprechun, or any other number of things. We have no proof, you have no proof, no proof has been brought to the light of mankind to prove God's existance, or lack thereof.
As a wise cartoon character voiced by Samuel L Jackson once said...
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."
Granted yes it does work both ways in this situation, but I would imagine most people who take any real time to look into this age old question would realize this. There isnt an answer for or against God(s) or Big Bang theory.
Science does not claim to have any real facts. In essence, all we have are a bunch of things that we have noticed throughout our existance which have happened the same way since we started observing them.
Just because the floor underneath your bed has always been there for you to put your feet on when you get out of bed each morning doesnt mean it will be there tommorow. Most scientific "fact" exists only as long as it takes for our understanding of the matter to expand enough to allow us to see said "fact" more clearly.
The problem lies in one main thing IMO, that man has a hard time grasping the unknown. Man doesnt like not having the answers, and has been known throughout history to use what later on is viewed as false information to explain things that happen that they dont understand. These days we dont have too many God(s) of the Tide/Ocean, or of the Harvest, or any other number of things that existed in quite a few periods in human history.
We dont know what tommorow will show to us in regards to science and all the things that are being researched. Tommorow might show us the true existance of a(n) God, or it might be the same as yesterday. And when we have what we view as a "fact" its beyond most of us to comprehend that being fundamentally wrong, because if we knew why it was wrong, we wouldnt view it as a fact any longer. Just as the earth was flat, but is now round... just as the sun revolved around the earth, and now the earth revolves around the sun... just as gods controlled the tides, and now the moon and other various things do... We are constantly learning, constantly expanding our knowledge of the things around us, which allows us to constantly modify that which we had known before with new knowledge as it becomes available.
If you had mentioned the entire idea behind a computer to someone from the 1400's, they would believe that it was not possible, it was incomprehendable, or so I would imagine. Yet computers exist today. Hell, back in the 80's a certain prominent tech person stated that there would never be a need for more then a certain amount of RAM.. yet today we see computer programs that require 1-2gb of RAM. But just because they couldnt comprehend such things, doesnt mean they wont exist, it just means that it perhaps is beyond our reach with our currently intelligence and information.
"The only thing we can know for certain, is that we know nothing for certain..."
I have heard that quote from somewhere, but cant seem to find who to attribute it to from a quick google search. Most likely a prominent philosoper, although I could have just made it up and not realized. Either way, its point is pretty clear, and I think makes alot of sense, especially in relation to what is being discussed in this thread.
Ive rambled enough for now, and to think that im not even high... well, not THAT high anymore.
Ok God may not be a provable thing, but the word still exists. Perhaps instead of taking a scientific factual aproach to the word lets look inward for a personal subjective meaning for God. Iv got a belief that everything happens for a reason, that there Is Meaning. God is me proving to my self that there is reason. Heres an intresting thought as well, dont think of God as the Creator but rather as Creating. And not as a person because a person is only a part of the picture God would be the picture, photagrapher, frame and wall the pictures on, if you ask me :P.
I think modern religion is like the greek and roman gods. The scientist had to some how explain to the common people why things like natural disasters and other natural things happened so they wouldnt freak out. And the odd greek stories were made so there was some type of code of conduct for the people to live by. I think that modern religion is just made up to explain why things happen because they didnt have the knowledge or technology to scientifcly explain things. The bible is a good book to read on how to life your live, but i prefer non-fiction. :jointsmile:
I think science is great, but i also believ in somthing beyond reason.
We might just be a dream that some spiritual energy is having. That is just one idea and it makes as much sense as the idea that there is a god. And as far as ideas go there are an infinite number of them. You could choose one. You could choose many. I choose to be agnostic. I have no idea what is going on other than what I sense both externally and internally. And all of that is the best guess my brain can make... maybe;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmanWalter
The key thing is recognizing that it is a belief, and nothing more. Too many people seem to confuse beliefs with "facts" and truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmanWalter
You believe that there must be something beyond what we can see right now. Bob over there believes that this is it, what you see is what you get, nothing more nothing less.
Both of you are equally right, same as all shades inbetween are equally right. And by equally right I mean that neither side is wrong, because we have no means to prove either.
And ironically, at least to me, the only way to prove there is a God(s) is by use of science. Sure a shiny being popping up would convince some people, but others would want hard substantiated data. Which I think makes sense if you are truely religious and part of the Catholic/Christian faith. That whole making sure not to worship false gods and whatnot.