By you I mean Christians.
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By you I mean Christians.
I don??t know why people are getting sooooo fucking bent out of shape about all of this.
It seems to me if the Christians on this thread are being attacked more than they are attacking.
I don??t understand all this fucking hostility?.
I am a Christian??..why does that bother you so much ( and the you is in general terms)
god doesn't make sense.
Because atheists and non-christians all over the planet have put with holier-than-thou preaching for 2,000 years, and we're fucking sick of it. Now's the time to change things, and hopefully religion will not exist anymore withing the next 200-300 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by likemclever
For 2,000 you were the persecuters and the executioners, you constantly hindered progress, both social and scientific. You put other people down becuse they didn't believe as you do, you forced people to believe as you do on pain of death and torture.
Now, I am no longer scared to offend anyone by saying that Christianity is bull, because you have offended me greatly.
Amen, F L E S H! :)
Does make sense. I've been told God has a sense of humor. I don't know the basis of their conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
This reminds me of a discussion I had with a guy about Lord of the Rings. Not long after the movie came out all he could talk about was LOTR, how great it was, so on so forth. I go and see it and of course its just not really my thing and Im, more or less, picking it apart. Everything I see thats wrong with it logic-wise, I found it, and then brought it to him being the ass that I am, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
Nah, it wasn't that bad, I do have some restraint not to totally rip into something someone loves, but during the discussion I found him to get irritated that I would bring up any flaw or anything that lacked logic even if my doing so was in the most respectful way. He was so into this movie, he loved the fantasy so much that even though he might concede I was right with whatever crap I would bring to his attention, my doing that was definitely taking away his investment in the fantasy and he was resenting me for it.
Anyway, what your post reminded me the most of this story was I said something like "why didnt the wizard just poof 'em to where the ring was? Throughout the movie he can do all this wicked cool magic, but he cant do that?" By this time Im probably beng a little smug, cuz I do understand thats not much of a movie if he just poofs em there and there we go, end of story.
I realized just how much his investment in the fantasy was when he said "You dont understand wizards..." and proceeded to tell me about powers of wizards which he offered no basis for. I realized then that no amount of logic is going to make this person let go of the fantasy he holds so dear to his heart, and that even the goofiest of explanations he'll accept as long as it supports this fantasy.
Ban me, I'll have a different name and be back tommorrow, they tried to ban murple over on bluelight, how well did that work out?Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
I have not been alive for 2,000 years??.so I??m pretty sure I haven??t done shit to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
I??m not putting anyone down because they DON??T believe in God.
And I??m pretty sure no one has tortured or threatened to kill you because you don??t believe.
Sorry to have offended you greatly ??errrr?..I guess.
So you don??t want freedom of religion??.hmmm.
I think perhaps you??re in the wrong country.
AGAIN?..I still don??t know why the fact that I??m a Christian makes a shit to you or anyone else.
Edit: Nevermind I just saw that your from Canada.....perhaps you are in the right country.
Couldn't have put it better myself.. Brilliant, brother, brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
I personally didn't ever care about Christians. I still really don't. I don't agree with their ideals, and I think that Christianity was and is a tool used by authority figures to manipulate the masses with. I think it's a spiritual slavery, and I feel pity for those people out there that need religion. I have been cut down, mistreated, and called out at times in my life because I am atheist, because I didn't believe in a 2000 year old book that dictates how and why I should live my life. Instead of forsaking the logic of science, not to mention just plain logic, I chose to forsake this book. And because of that perfectly sensible, intelligent move, I am treated like shit and I'm bashed everyday by the Christian world. "Put up the ten commandments in courthouses, make abortion illegal, we're right and you're wrong, you're going to burn in hell unless you conform, yada yada..."
I've just gotten to the point where I think it's time bash back, because I'm sick and tired of Christianity. It's just an excuse as to why we are here, what we should be doing during our time here, and what comes next.
Wow Likemclever, your attacking him because he's from Canada.....So is Canada an "atheist" commie state? Otherwise except for a few more civil liberties and a much smaller military industry its the same....(oh except the majority of time it is colder on average than "down in the states".....).
But hey I guess im just a godless Canadian crying in my beer....(im also American so is half of me worthwhile at least?)...
It's not the fact YOUR a christian its support for an organization(by claiming affiliation with such that is support however tacit it may be) that cripples free thought and claims all sorts of things about us "godless" folks ;). Anyone getting down and dirty is just being immature about the discussion just ignore em.
I actually don't really have anything against Canada.........I look at them pretty much like any other country that pretends to be our friend.....(I'm not saying that to be an ass....just how I see it)......
A major reason why Canada's military is so much smaller is because it borders the United States......and ultimately if you were to be invaded or attacked who do you think would defend it...........Canada?????????? (same goes for Mexico)
I claim affiliation with Christ........
And I do think it's the fact that I'm a Christian.....I am TRYING to be civil......
people have been on my case since my first post in this thread........what a peace loving, open minded, tolerant bunch.......
I posted in this thread by accident actually......I thought it was in the lounge.....I never post in here.......and this is why. This forum isn't about spiritual discussion. It's about hate.....
You personally didn't do anything to me, don't think what I said was aimed personally at you. However, your beliefs offend me. Maybe you're different, maybe you're more open-minded, nonetheless Christianity offends me, and it's only getting worse. My parents are religious, doesn't mean I hate them...Quote:
Originally Posted by likemclever
When I said "you" I didn't mean you, likemclever. I meant Christianity in general. But whatever, if you feel included, too bad.
BTW, what the fuck does me being from Canada have anything to do with what we're talking about? You know me because I'm from Canada, now?
And who said anything about religious freedom? For now, you can believe whatever you like, I don't give two shits. But I'm still wishing for the complete eradication of religion. I can dream....
Oh, and stop playing the victim... Nobody's out to get you, specifically. Don't be that arrogant.
I personally don't see why condemning such a hateful ideology as Christianity is any worse than condemning other hateful ideologies like Stalinism, white supremacy, or fascism. Certainly Christianity has caused far more death and misanthropy than those three put together. It just has a lot more "true believers". Christianity teaches us that all the good things about mankind are the result of some divine entity to which we are all slaves, and all the negative things about mankind are the result of an innate wickedness everybody has from birth. This creates such a profound hatred for mankind that ridding the world of Christianity is absolutely imperative if this is ever to become a truly peaceful planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
lol?..
There??s this guy I know who doesn??t use deodorant because he thinks it causes cancer????..his beliefs offend me too but I don??t think he??s an evil closed minded person.
I??m sorry flesh I assumed that when you quoted me and said the word ??you? a whole bunch of times?..you were talking to me.
I think you have about as much of a chance of getting rid of religion as you do getting rid of country music??but yes you can dream that??s why their called ??dreams?.
And please??.It would take more than internet bickering to victimize me.
But I do seem to be the only one at the bottom of the Atheist dog pile at the moment.
Peace~
Okay look, i'm not being funny, but when it comes to this debate.. it's interesting and all, sometimes. But really there IS no debate. There's no question, seriously, as to whether God exists or not. Every rational and logical person concedes that he does not. Those who believe he does are, by definition, irrational and illogical.
There is no God. There is no question.
Hey that's cool. I'm sure there are people who agree with you who have read this thread but are either too scared to argue their case or don't have enough conviction in their beliefs to do so. It's cool when somebody sticks up for what they believe in, no matter what it is. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by likemclever
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
OK....now your just being silly....... :rolleyes:
How so?
There is not a single scrap of evidence or proof that God exists or has existed. There is supposition, yes. There is rumour. There is heresay and myth and there are stories.
But there is absolutely no proof or evidence. After thousands of years not one person has managed to bring anything to the table that might suggest even for a second that God exists, or at least did in the past. Logic would dictate that this means he does not exist. A rational person would agree with this.
So are you saying we know all there is to know about life.
We must.... because we would have "proof" by now.....right?
There is also no single scrap of evidence or "proof" that God does NOT exist......come on after thousands of years not one person has managed to bring anything to the table that might sugest even for a second that God does not exist......(do you see where I'm going with this)
A rational person would agree with this...... :D
Actually plenty of things have been brought to the table to "Prove" certain gods dont exist. For instance "God" (known by definition as the "biblegod" the one who supposedly spawned Christ). Go to www.evilbible.com for hundreds of them.....
To say NO "godlike" being could ever exist is stupid and no scientific person would say that. We dont know the full limits of our universe however that doesnt mean we state that everything we don't understand was/is "God" that would be counter productive and ignorant (ironically ignorant is a synonym with the definition's of faith ;) )......We investigate and collect evidence, without any the conclusion can only be reached that it isnt there. Until you have evidence belief in something is rather silly in all reality.
There isnt really a scrap of evidence that the Loch ness monster doesnt exist other than that MOST photos are exposed as frauds others are "unexplainable" does this mean nessie is there?
Occam's razor, it's nice to dream but try to stick to reality with your head in the clouds you tend to trip over people who you can't even see.
There is no evidence for gods or sugar plum fairy's or leprechauns does that mean they can't exist? nope....Does it mean they do exist nope.....so whats the logical next step....?
Would you convict someone on hearsay conjecture rumour and assumptions? With zero actual evidence? I hope not but if so I guess your belief system is justified however "unjustly" it is in the end ;).
It's all in how you're brought up, if you have a "supreme" being to look up to then you're mind is occupied, rather than running rampant with evil thoughts.
Most. Illogical. Post. Ever. Captain. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by likemclever
If you had read my previous posts you would know that i'm not saying we know all there is to know about the Universe. In fact, this is one of the reasons I will neve believe in God. To believe in God is to believe you know the Answer to all of mans great questions and in my opinion is the height of man's arrogance.
Regarding your second point; one does not have to prove that something does not exist. This is where you are getting confused. In fact it is easier to prove that something does exist than to prove that it doesn't. If something is in front of you then that is proof enough that it exiss; however to say something doesn't exist is, by all accounts, impossible to prove. You could search the known universe for God and never find him, and a Christian search as yourself could (and probably would) say "you didn't look far enough.. he's in the next universe over". This would be impossible to disprove.
However, judging by what we know currently know of the universe there is no God. We have never found God, and by no means available to us have we ever found any evidence that he has existed. There is evidence of evolution andsuch here on Earth that screams there is no God, and still people such as yourself fail to take this in and completely ignore it.
I'll say this again;
If two people are having a dispute in which one is claiming the existence of an object or entity and one is arguing that this object or entity does not exist then it is up to the person making the original claim to provide proof of the existence of this object or entity, otherwise their claim has no ground.
I have yet to see anyone provide this proof, ever. Suppostion, yes. Conjecture, yes. Proof, no. Until you do so there is absolutely no reason for me to believe it. I believe in vampires and unicorns as much as I believe in God. And it is not my job to prove that God doesn't exist, when you can not prove that he does.
Then why isn't the crime rate lower for theists than for atheists? This sounds like something that could be verified with experiments. If no belief in God = evil thoughts = evil behavior, you'd be able to point to studies to prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
Also remember that the Nazis had a "supreme" being to look up to, only he was human and not a figment of anybody's imagination, and they certainly had evil thoughts.
Well, you can replace "belief in God" with "playing marbles", I don't care, I was just saying you gotta keep a kid occupied with pure thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ermitonto
That's so awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
I also completely agree with your point about disproving negatives. It's very difficult to disprove a negative (like unicorns, fairies, God, whathaveyou did not exist.) How can you possibly prove something didnt exist if it never existed in this big huge world of ours? Especially when what we are being requested to disprove isnt matter, its some spiritual entity that could live, exactly like you said, in this universe, or the next one over. Or it may not exist at all. It so unfair when believers in God make a request of others to disprove a higher power. How the fuck do you do that? If someone says "I believe in unicorns, prove to me they dont exist" you look at them like "you're the biggest idiot I've ever encountered." God damn you lazy asses, its your job to prove to me they do/did exist, otherwise dont waste my time debating with me about your little fantasies because I wasn't able to come through with disproving unicorns to your arbitrary satisfaction!
How is it not the exact same thing when the request is to disprove God instead of a unicorn? And the result would probably be the same whether the exploration was a search for God or unicorns, if we come back with nothing, then exactly like you said we'd be told we must not have looked hard enough, or maybe its something that exists on other planets or in a distant universe, or blah blah blah! Anyway, you are so right when you say it is not our responsibility to prove that what you believe in definitely doesnt exist. Thats too tall an order, its just such an unbelievably unfair request.
Great post, btw, Ghost. The line I quoted would be great as a sig, may I use it if you dont wanna? *bats eyelashes* :p
Of course we don??t call the entirety of the unknown God?.that would be a bit like saying a Ford Mustang built in the year 2057 is God??.??????Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
I don??t think anyone thinks that.
You are correct about this?.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
You need to buy a better dictionary??:DQuote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
Woooo man?your saying that based upon on collection of evidence we have to assume that God isn??t there??.I??m glad your not fucking running things??because based on your argument a hundred years ago we would have believed that penicillin didn??t exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
I noticed you used the word most and "unexplainable".....great job....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
You're going to half to do better than a disgruntled Monk.....Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
Men don't go to war over the Sugar plum fairy.....I think you would agree there is more at stake here.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
No I would not convict them.....But just because I wouldn't convict them doesn't mean they didn't do it..........Hello O.J. Simpson calling.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
:rolleyes:
And you hold on Mr. Gost toker I have to get off the computer right now but I'm comming back for you..... :D
Hehe thanks, Ousted. I just realised there were so many typos in my post that it was almost indecipherable. hehe :P Sure, you can use that quote in your sig if you want.. it'd make me proud! lol
likemclever, i'm waiting, i'm waiting!! :p
Check you out!!! :cool:
**is proud**
I told you. :)
1. Thesaurus not dictionary actually. And look at the definitions of both and take an english language class....
2. Nobody did believe in penicillin UNTIL it was discovered.....Nice circular reasoning though ;). (Science doesnt work like religions)
3. Occam's Razor is actually the most widely used scientific thought process, but hey you attack it all you want(after all its an attack on logic and thats obviously not a strong thing in religious circles).
4. O.J had more than hearsay conjecture etc, ever heard of DNA.....Why do you think that trial was such a travesty and everyone knew he did it. Because the evidence came out and it was physical.....(ie: forensic physical evidence, BLOOD.....) Nice try though almost as nice as your dismissal of Occam's Razor without any actual counter point.
5. There is more at stake your correct, however that doesnt negate my point that every single religion has zero evidence....arguing the merits of violence of the christian god vs the sugar plum fairy are nonsensical as it was allegorical. Neither have evidence yet one is believed one is not.....now does it make sense to you?
Most "miracles" are given simple explanations and proved does this mean that "God" did the rest....I dont understand what your trying to say by "teasing" about most and unexplainable(which is defined as not being able to explain something at the moment...not forever...) I'm pointing out Nessie is as likely (and in fact MORE likely than any god showing up). As are Aliens ironically (something made impossible by the bible and christian dogma as "were" the only ones in the universe made especially for us remember....).
But hey pick up the strawman and beat that sucker to death and don't counter any point I dont mind in the least gives me a good laugh ;).
Nice post, Weirdo.
It confuses me how some people can choose to ignore such blatant logic and reasoning.
This is what I don't get about Christianity. It teaches that in the absence of any other influence, everybody is wicked and starts thinking wicked evil things. I really do believe that people are on the whole good creatures. It teaches that everybody is a fundamentally evil being, but some people have a layer of good plastered over that.Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
But in the real world, left to their own devices, most people will not just go out raping and murdering. Rather, we cooperate to ensure mutual well-being. That's why society exists in the first place.
Yeah, and on the issue of family morals, where Christians claim to hold a monopoly, isn't it ironic that the divorce rate in the more religious southern states is way higher than that liberal, amoral bastion that is Massachussetts?Quote:
Originally Posted by ermitonto
Irony is wasted on Republicans and Christians.
I don??t know where your getting this from??.To believe in God does not mean that you think you have figured everything out.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
You can still believe in God and not know the answers to all of life??s mysteries.
Lol?..my second point was actually your point?..I basically said the same thing you did but I put the word NOT in there?.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
I think your wrong ??..I think you DO have to proves that GOD does not exist. I think that your beliefs carry a burden of proof equal to mine.
After all when it comes down to it you have two choices to consider.
Either you believe in God or you do not.
(And by God I mean in the broadest sense?..people have more trouble defining God than believing in ??him?)
I agree with you on this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
I think you are under the impression that I am looking for God the way that people look for their car keys?My search to ??find? God is not a destination?..it is a journey or something of a spiritual arrival.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
The actual ??finding? part comes next?..or so they say?.:)
I think that when it comes to evolution there is room for a kind of tweaking for environmental reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
But I don??t buy the whole ?. once upon a time there was a great rock (forget about where the rock came from and lets not talk about what was there before the rock) and it exploded because of ?xyz. Anyway ?..here we stand today.
Belive me I know religion makes some hard to handle claims ??..But shit that??s pretty hard to swallow too?..lol.
And there is so much that science can not ??explain? or show ??proof? about that we come into contact with on a daily basis?..I think we are spiritual creatures for a reason?.
I'm tired and I have to study......Goodnight.....peace~
I believe in vampires... Prove to me that my belief is unfounded, if you can't, I'll go right on believing it.
What do we come in contact with on a daily basis that science can neither explain or verify? (note daily basis) Just curious.