Emmies Grow Log - White Widow

Emmie, It sounds to me like it's time to start learning to clone....ya got one female and room and equipment for much more...maybe make her a mom and start cloning from her to get something to put in those tents and start making them make you (or save you) some money and keep you in good smoke. Everybody has their good days and bad days, good crops and bad crops, and you will too, but cloning will get you where ya want to be much faster than breeding and seeding, plus, no more wondering if it's a male or not, plus you have the start of a good mom and empty rooms waiting for something to grow....toss the males and start cloning! While breeding your own strains sounds like fun and your inquisitive mind wants to try it now, you'll be happier (and higher!) if you put the breeding thing aside for a later date and start growing some weed...so far you've got a big long grow log for one little plant and the attention of all the great growers on here... start using what ya got, learn to grow them big and beautiful, and clone and get a stash going for yourself and leave the breeding for later on. Just my 2 cents, girl, but I want to see ya grow something out all the way before you start with all the experiments and breeding and just plain growing takes enormous patience and observation, especially the last few weeks...no offense, but most college kids don't have much patience yet...I don't consider that a fault at all, but the tendency is to dive in too deep, too fast, and get lost. ALWAYS remember the KISS principle! ALWAYS!

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Originally Posted by emilya

Just what was I stating?
I quote myself:

The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!

I see here 2 statements, and a question. I'm not sure which statement you are upset with.

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I'm not at all upset. But what I saw were two statements and a desire for confirmation.

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Originally Posted by emilya

If it is instead the question that you are having issues with, please stop yelling at me about my attempts to do breeding and explain. I see lots of warnings and statements as to my competence and personality, but I see nothing to answer my original question.

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I was trying to help you by not letting you turn an issue into a disaster. The early sexing is unproven, and you were trying to make improper assumptions about the genetics of the pollen you are about to recieve.

Again...once a plant's 'natural' sex is set, there is no evidence the sex can be changed by enviornment or handling. You can stress it into a self-pollination phase, where it throws-out nanners, but that is a totally different thing. The pollen from ladies have no male chromosomes. But you were combining that with the assumption that the seedling switched sexes on ya. This line of thinking can get the ball rolling for a whole plethra of incorrect assumptions.
I thought it best to nip it in the bud before you have to re-learn proper plant biology. Perhaps I was wrong in speaking-up, but you needed the info, regardless.

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Originally Posted by emilya

Rusty... I want to be friends. I am not trying to be egotistical or think that I can do this alone. I make wrong assumptions because I am new... and I do it in public on this forum because I am inviting experts like you to come in and teach me. (and those who read this thread in the future) I want you to embrace my curiosity, and help me to learn... not tell me and all the future readers that they are not worthy somehow because of their inexperience to think beyond the box. Yes, experience is the greatest teacher, but please, don't think that all newcomers are the same. Some of us have the time, money and intelligence to actually become great at this. I would love to proudly exclaim that it was you who was one of my greatest teachers if I ever do get good at this.

Emmie

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I have no beef with you other than you trying to get ahead of yourself and getting all prissy when someone posts anything other than an e-pat on the ass. When I see an issue, I address it. I don't go around the boards picking on idiots and those less fortunate than I, nor do I go looking to blow smoke up anyone's ass.

Patience in the growroom is a commodity you'll need to search for, as jumping the gun can and will cause heartache.
Never did it cross my mind that you were lacking intelligence. But I do see some character traits you can work on to help you overcome the manic-depressive hobby that is cannagardening. Patience, tollerance, attention to detail are all necessary if you really want to keep learning proper techniques and plant biology. And the wrost mistake you can make is to read a technique or process, and jump-in neck deep chasing those techniques that are above your pay-grade.
For instance, in the post where you thought you had changed the sex of a seedling from female to male, but were still (seemingly) willing to use the pollen...is folly. If you have not kept strict control of your pollen donors, (and their pollen) the seeds should be considered 'bagseed'. And until you can understand some of the other more advanced techniques like selective breeding, back-crossing, stressing techniques...likely you should stick with breeding known studs-n-ladies. (not trying to feminize seeds till you know you won't ruin your seed genetics) If it takes yelling from the rooftops to keep a newbie from making big mistakes, I'll be the one on the rooftop yelling his ass off.

Listen...I'm not an educator, and I'm not a social worker nor a politician. I'm not a psychologist offering the latest in "everything's going to be all right' theology. I'm a former construction foreman trying to pay forward what was freely given to me. If I step on toes, it's not because I want to step on toes...it's because they were there when I stepped-in to help.

If you need help with your thesis, give me a holler...haven't you heard....? I know EVERYTHING, lol. :thumbsup:
(good luck with it, regardless)

Thank you both Rusty and TankJr!

First let me say that I am sorry for getting all upset earlier. Your last note Rusty was a gem... and now I feel I understand you much better and I can see that you really were trying to help me earlier. I am a girl... I know it may seem silly to a man, but it was just the tone of that message that got me going. The written word is so difficult to deal with sometimes and things can get misunderstood. What you both did here in these last messages is to explain to me "why" these things I was thinking of doing were bad ideas... you didn't tell me no... you explained. Thank you.

I have re-thought things here after carefully considering both of your messages to me and you are right. I need to consider why I am doing this. I want some harvest. I still have no idea what I am doing and I need to concentrate on the task at hand and save my curious mind and experiments for later.

I have had a success here. I have a viable female plant. I needed to figure out the most logical way to move forward from here and make my grow operation a success.

So my focus went to my female. She was starting to show a deficiency, so I moved her to the next size pot and new FFOF soil. She has started responding already and this week I am going to take 4 clones. The males in the last group need to be destroyed. There is still one, #3 that has not convinced me it is male... so it will live, for now.

Thank you everyone for putting up with my my rantings as I learn. :greenthumb:

Emmie

We're here to help:)...you get one "atta girl!"...there was another point I forgot to add before in the last post (I always forget something when posting blazed!)...if you were my daughter, I would not care if you grew weed while going to school, but I would definitely want you to make and keep school the priority and keep the weed a hobby...breeding and seeding would make that more difficult than cloning would imo.

Another thing...if you want to have four clones to grow, take 8. That way, should some have problems, you can just pick the 4 BEST to grow out. If she's not big enough, just take 4 now, and 4 in another few weeks...try to start with more than you plan to have when finished to account for attrition along the way. It used to break my heart to kill a clone, but now, if they are not robust, they get trashed...It's just a waste of precious space to try to coax a stunted runt to finish, but the better you get at cloning, the fewer you have to trash.

He he construction foreman, eh?....I'm no teacher either...I'm a mechanic who fixes things...cars boats planes trains electric gas or steam! And occasionally a plant!:stoned: I just fixed part of one into a nice doobie! LOL!:stoned:

Just wanted to give a :thumbsup: to the posts here the last couple of days.

Having just now browsed through the forum and encountered several obnoxious spoilt bratty threads its a welcome relief to return here and find things settled so calmly. Don't mean that to sound pompus or something, just fair dinkum.

Nice to have ya back...:jointsmile:

Let the plant recover before assaulting it again. After every procedure, (transplanting, taking clones, re-vegging...) I give at least a week before doing anything else. This helps keep you from over-stressing the plant, and is part of the patience you'll need to develop for continued success.

Whether talking to a male or female, I still approach issues with brutal honesty. Gets me in hot water more often than not, but my position is usually clear and occationally concise. :thumbsup:

Rusty, I have the same issues, too friggin blunt, honest, but not delicate. I think with Emily, if you just explain why, she will see the light. The advantage of an educated adult to deal with over children trying to get high.

I too am glad we are all friends again. Had some trouble watching, but kept fingers shut.

One big happy family.

You taken clones yet Em?

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

Rusty, I have the same issues, too friggin blunt, honest, but not delicate. I think with Emily, if you just explain why, she will see the light. The advantage of an educated adult to deal with over children trying to get high.

I too am glad we are all friends again. Had some trouble watching, but kept fingers shut.

One big happy family.

You taken clones yet Em?

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Not yet WW... heeding the advice of my elders and waiting a week after the transplanting. I have a new 3 gal pot to figure out how to water now... and that has my full attention. Well almost full, I still have #3 whom I did not transplant so I can play with fixing his nute deficiency with the liquid stuff just to see how it works. Still not 100% sure on the sex of that one yet.

This weekend will be a week after the transplant and I will take 4 clones at that time. The mother is now standing at 11" tall and will probably FIM her next week (after recovering from cloning) to see that work. Then I plan on 4 more clones spaced out about 3 weeks apart from the first batch.

The temptation in front of me and the advice I seek now from the collected experts is this: If I manage to get 6 or 8 viable clones going in the next 3-4 weeks, would you keep this original as a mother in a veg state or would you now grow her out and keep one of the new clones as a new mother? Keep in mind that I am not doing SOG, so I don't have a need to get 20 clones, just 2 strong plants will fill my 30"x50" screen. I just need to keep the line alive. What are the advantages/disadvantages of keeping her going, vs getting to a small harvest about 5-8 weeks earlier?

Emmie

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Originally Posted by emilya

If I manage to get 6 or 8 viable clones going in the next 3-4 weeks, would you keep this original as a mother in a veg state or would you now grow her out and keep one of the new clones as a new mother? Emmie

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SOG the mother, you have already sexed her, so any clones will be her, some more viable than others.....just keep cloning off the strongest one, making plants to flower.....If you only need one.....like I do with Thai, when it gets too big, clone, and toss the mother once the clone has taken. I did that for over a year while figuring out how to make it flower properly.

I call this perpetual gardening, always having a clone start, an infant/adolescent, and the flowering plant. It takes 2 light setups and total isolation of light between the two setups.....the good part is you can use cfl for the babies.

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Originally Posted by emilya

Keep in mind that I am not doing SOG, so I don't have a need to get 20 clones, just 2 strong plants will fill my 30"x50" screen.

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Why only 2 under this screen? To fill that you are going to have to veg them way out. Why not go for 4 or even 6 smaller plants? You will reduce the veg time by half at least. Also note that you can FIM them quite a bit earlier. The common wisdom is after the fifth real node. Forced branching will help fill the screen faster.

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Originally Posted by bigsby

Why only 2 under this screen? To fill that you are going to have to veg them way out. Why not go for 4 or even 6 smaller plants? You will reduce the veg time by half at least. Also note that you can FIM them quite a bit earlier. The common wisdom is after the fifth real node. Forced branching will help fill the screen faster.

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:) You are probably right Bigsby. I have no idea how much this screen will fill, but when I have 6-8 clones sitting here I will no doubt be looking at using a few more to get a full screen. I like the idea of not having to veg out for 3 months before going to flower.

That 5th node was quite a ways back there... and I have read recommendations to do the FIM after the 3rd or 4th node too. I was then advised that after the FIM there wouldn't be a lot of vertical growth, so I figured that I had to get to at least 10-11 inches before doing it since that is the height of the screen. I need to see what happens after the FIM and how much growth happens after switching to flower so I can get a better idea how to best fill this screen.

I need clarification on 2 terms you used above... "real node" how does a real node compare to a "not real node?" Also, what do you mean by forced branching? Are you referring to the increase in growth from the lower branches after the FIM?

Emmie

I do larger plants like that under my screens because I'm limited to count, but Biggs has a point,... you can get a quicker turn around, (tho lower yield per plant) going with smaller plants.



Ideally one should keep the seed grown as a mother and flower clones from the F1, but there's nothing wrong with flowering mom while veging in a clone for round 2 :D

I keep 1 clone off of my seed grow as a Mother plant, at least if I don't get another girl from the rest of my beans I'll still have the genetic hangin around! ;)

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Originally Posted by emilya

You are probably right Bigsby. I have no idea how much this screen will fill, but when I have 6-8 clones sitting here I will no doubt be looking at using a few more to get a full screen. I like the idea of not having to veg out for 3 months before going to flower.

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Your estimate of 3 months veg to fill a 30" x 50" screen with 2 plants is probably/possibly ;) (likly) pretty accurate. Consider that you could do 6 plants @ 4 - 6 weeks veg + 2 months flower. That's a savings of 6 to 8 weeks! So in one year you could manage 4 harvests with the smaller plants vs. 2.4 harvests with the bigger plants. Yes, your yield per plant will be lower but overall yield will be similar. Essentially you double your potential yield per year. I have no idea about motives. I grow strictly for personal use within my house. No one else. Not friends, not family. It isn't worth the risks. So 3 harvests @ 4 - 6 plants is plenty in my case.

Considering the screen for a moment, there are a number of factors in play. Strain has a good deal to do with it. Some stavias will more than triple in size after flipping to flower. In such a scenario the screen will fill up pretty fast, even with a small plant. Some indicas might not even double in size. The rule of thumb is to fill the screen 40 - 60 percent before flip (strain dependent). Also keep in mind that FIMming will slow down your plant as does SCroG training. +1 week for each minimum. And don't get hung up on achieving a 9" stem... here comes a joke... no seriously - every plant will be different so you will have varying sizes. Go look at the grow logs by user bigtopsfinn. I learned a good deal about SCroG there.

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Originally Posted by emilya

I was then advised that after the FIM there wouldn't be a lot of vertical growth, so I figured that I had to get to at least 10-11 inches before doing it since that is the height of the screen.

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That's not really accurate. You no longer have a main stem (or cola for that matter) so it is certainly easier to train flat after FIMming but the plant still wants to, and will grow vertically.

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Originally Posted by emilya

I need clarification on 2 terms you used above... "real node" how does a real node compare to a "not real node?" Also, what do you mean by forced branching? Are you referring to the increase in growth from the lower branches after the FIM?

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The first real node is the set of leaves after the cotyledon leaves - I'm sure you know this... FIMming is a technique that forces or at least encourages branch growth when done properly. I definitely recommend FIMming with a SCroG.

Thank you Bigsby! :postgood:

A lot of good information there. Now I see much more clearly how this works and what I need to do. Of course it won't go perfectly, but I can see now that I will be able to do what I want to do. I don't need crazy amounts here, its just me and my brother and we have a relative with MS that will be helped a great deal with our efforts. I can see that if all goes reasonably well, by the end of the first full scrog with 4-6 plants, I will have all I need for many months of this powerful strain.

At that point I just wanted to experiment a bit. I do love White Widow and I will probably keep one going for several grows so I can judge other strains against what I have learned about its growth patterns, but I have many strains I am very curious about and have never smoked... Jack Herer for example... Diesel... Kush... and I plan on trying them out.

I also got a package of 20 free seeds with my last order and as far as I understand these are seeds that growers have given back to the Amsterdam folks as examples of the strains they grew. This is pretty exciting to me... a grab bag of possibly 20 different types of beans! I can not see how this will be anything but very interesting as I work through that bag over the next couple of years. I fully intend to have a collection of Mason jars someday with a connoisseurs collection of tastes and heads that I can enjoy with my closest friends.

Immediate plans:

I am still waiting on my clone dome to show up. Tomorrow is day 49 and a week after my transplant to the 3 gal pot. The top growth is at the perfect point for the FIM. I think I will do that instead of the cloning tomorrow and then wait another week to do the clones when I am all set up and ready for them.

I still have some more reading to do about cloning anyway as I find I still have some questions. Such as, if my lower branches now are long enough that I could take just part of the branch as the clone... is there any advantage in this for the new clone? Is it better to be taller and have to strip leaves off... or is it better to leave half of the branch so that it can split off a couple more branches for cloning on the mother?

The fun thing that I can report as of tonight is the reduction of stress in my current grow. No longer am I looking at it as 4 plants that may or may not survive and all this time and money invested that I may or may not have wasted. Now I know that this is going to work. I may just have one plant left, but she is going to now turn into many more, and that makes me feel good. It's a good place to be in, and I hope that all the new growers out there get a chance to get to this point if they are serious about learning how to garden. I know I still have a lot to learn, but I definitely feel I have reached a milestone. Already the work is going to pay off as my mother now will provide for the future as she gives back the love I gave her.

It is a good day here. I hope yours is going as well! :thumbsup:

Emmie

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Originally Posted by emilya

Thank you Bigsby! :postgood:

A lot of good information there. Now I see much more clearly how this works and what I need to do. Of course it won't go perfectly, but I can see now that I will be able to do what I want to do. I don't need crazy amounts here, its just me and my brother and we have a relative with MS that will be helped a great deal with our efforts. I can see that if all goes reasonably well, by the end of the first full scrog with 4-6 plants, I will have all I need for many months of this powerful strain.

At that point I just wanted to experiment a bit. I do love White Widow and I will probably keep one going for several grows so I can judge other strains against what I have learned about its growth patterns, but I have many strains I am very curious about and have never smoked... Jack Herer for example... Diesel... Kush... and I plan on trying them out.

I also got a package of 20 free seeds with my last order and as far as I understand these are seeds that growers have given back to the Amsterdam folks as examples of the strains they grew. This is pretty exciting to me... a grab bag of possibly 20 different types of beans! I can not see how this will be anything but very interesting as I work through that bag over the next couple of years. I fully intend to have a collection of Mason jars someday with a connoisseurs collection of tastes and heads that I can enjoy with my closest friends.

Immediate plans:

I am still waiting on my clone dome to show up. Tomorrow is day 49 and a week after my transplant to the 3 gal pot. The top growth is at the perfect point for the FIM. I think I will do that instead of the cloning tomorrow and then wait another week to do the clones when I am all set up and ready for them.

I still have some more reading to do about cloning anyway as I find I still have some questions. Such as, if my lower branches now are long enough that I could take just part of the branch as the clone... is there any advantage in this for the new clone? Is it better to be taller and have to strip leaves off... or is it better to leave half of the branch so that it can split off a couple more branches for cloning on the mother?

The fun thing that I can report as of tonight is the reduction of stress in my current grow. No longer am I looking at it as 4 plants that may or may not survive and all this time and money invested that I may or may not have wasted. Now I know that this is going to work. I may just have one plant left, but she is going to now turn into many more, and that makes me feel good. It's a good place to be in, and I hope that all the new growers out there get a chance to get to this point if they are serious about learning how to garden. I know I still have a lot to learn, but I definitely feel I have reached a milestone. Already the work is going to pay off as my mother now will provide for the future as she gives back the love I gave her.

It is a good day here. I hope yours is going as well! :thumbsup:

Emmie

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:twocents: Starting @ Page 31 Marijuana Botany, your cuttings should be from 4-18". You should have at least a couple of nodes on each was what I originally read and always do. but, I like RC Clarke's book (it was his Masters Thesis) to refresh on. And he gives a range of three to six weeks for hardening off. :D

Cloning is pretty easy,.... and you have the fortune of growing in soil so it's even easier.

I like to go with slightly smaller clones than Gypski's post, I cut 4-5 nodes which are around 4" tall

Then I'll use the edge of a razor to lightly scrape the side of the stem for the bottom 1.5" or so. (I try to make sure there is a node in that space, just shave the node off, but not clean, leave a little bump, this isn't needed but seems to help IMO)

Most would do a second cut at a 45* angle and "Dip" in cloning solution like "Clonex" here,... but I like to have a puddle of Clonex on a piece of wax or parchment paper that I'll roll the stem in, then I'll do the 2nd 45* cut with the whole stem immersed in the solution.

Either way, from there,... insert into rapid rooter plug. (don't use the factory hole, get a bamboo skewer and poke a hole off to the side, then insert your cutting into that hole) Place into a tray and under a humidity dome.

Keep the humidity at 100% for the first week or so, and make sure the plug doesn't dry out,... but don't keep it soaking wet.

Once you've got roots poking out the sides of the plug you can start to "harden" the plant off to lower humidity by cracking the vents on the dome,.... Couple days later you're good to stuff your new baby's in some soil and get your grow on! :hippy:

Quickest roots I've seen (out the sides of the plug) was 4 days,... longest took a bit over 2 weeks. :)

Just a little update...

I am a plant murderer. There. I said it. :rambo:
#4 and #1 are no longer with us. They were sacrificed for the good of the grow and to further my education. First, I wanted to see if you could smoke a male plant with any effect. Second, I wanted to run through some curing steps in my mind. Good thing I practiced now too.

Just leave out one little detail and so much can go wrong is the lesson I learned today. After the herbal evisceration I hung my two grow room rejects from their heels in the unused grow tent. Lights and heater were off. I figured, a week to dry. So this morning I went in to check and found mold starting. Guess what I forgot? A fan. :error: At least I did this now and not when real harvest comes along. Practice practice...:fish:

#3 still is a mystery. It is definitely a different phenotype and is maturing very slowly... or at least it isn't wanting to reveal its sex like the others did. This could still go either way, so I repotted him/her yesterday.

#2 got her first haircut today. FIM was the result and I took all but 10% of the new cola away and smoked it. Thats right... I'm not proud of it, but I smoked it. :jointsmile: The result looks like all the pictures and in a couple days I will show you the new growth that results from this lobotomy. Both plants seem to be happy and now are 12" tall. Next steps will be to get some clones and start putting them under the screen.

Emmie

p.s. The first picture is #3 still deciding to be an innie or an outie
The other two are scenes from the midair collision of #2 with an exacto knife

Before you go chopping them bald, you might want to practice the cloning. One cutting per plant till you get the feel for it. Sucks chopping the mother plants all up, then lose all the clones for some unforseen reason.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Before you go chopping them bald, you might want to practice the cloning. One cutting per plant till you get the feel for it. Sucks chopping the mother plants all up, then lose all the clones for some unforseen reason.

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Thanks Rusty! Again great advice! And, proudly I can tell you that I was thinking along the same lines the other day and took some clones of #3 to practice with. They started out under DIY coke bottle humidity domes. 3 out 4 seem to be making it. In a few days it will be time to practice some more with #2. I promise not to chop her bald :)

While I got you here :)... check out the attached picture. This is #3 with some of the strangest preflowers I have seen. There are groups of 2 of these dark stalk things all over the plant embedded in a growth that almost looks like a male preflower... but today this dark thing broke free of its mass and if my eyes are not deceiving me, she is lifting her skirts to show us a brand new pistil. Its not like anything I have seen in any of the books though.

Emmie

Well, I can say that is one of the best pics Ive seen on this site! ;) All round + 100 rep to you for that quality of pic! :clap:


As for sexing,... Yeah, that's F'n weird. :wtf: I have no idea what's going on there.

I am starting to wonder if it is a true hermaphroditic plant.

Today we are snowed in. A blizzard in Missouri. I hope this ends soon as it is highly over rated. I have no experience with this, but I imagine that some point between a foot and a foot and a half of snow, my pickup truck is no longer going to be able to get me out of here. I guess I am stuck, so its time for an update!

We have made some progress since my last posting here. We still don't know the sex of #3, but I am proceeding ahead as if that didn't bother me. If in the next week or so (under close observation) #3 shows clear signs of being male, it will be pulled out of there.

I took 4 clones from #2 approximately 4 days ago. They have been put in a humidity dome in the smaller tent. Temperature is controlled at 78 degrees and they are under the red bulbs at 20,000 lumens approximately 10 inches away, the red because some claim it to promote root growth. The cloning was done based on the techniques in this sticky: http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...-kush-mom.html
I have raised the planters up slightly by putting them in an empty starter pot so that I can put a bit of water in the bottom of the tray to help raise the humidity in the dome. I also am misting them with PH'd water twice a day. So far, no drooping or acting surprised. They actually appear to be trying to live. This is very encouraging.

With the last watering I added the first nutes to the bigger plants. I am using the FF trio and of course still being in veg, gave them the recommended amounts of BB and GB for the last week of veg. We will see how they handle this with every other watering now as from this point on we will be seeing how much we can convince them to grow. I am watching for signs of burn and with any signs I will cut the nutes to every third watering.

The last big advance here is that today I lowered the SCRog screen onto them. This has forced the upper 2 inches to bend over and head out under the screen. Side growth has greatly accelerated since the FIM and very soon the side growth will be at canopy level and be ready to be trained across the screen. The current plan is to keep up with the current nutes/lights etc until the screen fills 40% or so... then I am going to flip the switch.

Here are the pictures!

Emmie

Nice plan ya got there Em:thumbsup:and a great looking setup too. I would like to try a scrog and maybe some time soon. I will watch yours for my practice, lol. It wont be long and you can fill your screen with your clones, at least that was my plan after i get some that is.

Keep er green:weedpoke:



:rasta:

Good Luck...Emmie...:thumbsup:...read this, in your spare time:http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...s-nirvana.html

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Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

Good Luck...Emmie...:thumbsup:...read this, in your spare time:http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...s-nirvana.html

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I love that grow log DP! It was one of the things that convinced me to do this one actually. I have seen several people refer to it as one of the best grow logs on the board and I have it saved here as a permanent link. I admit that I did try to emulate Raiz a bit here in this log. I strove to make this a place that a new grower could actually learn something from as they watched my first time attempt and me recovering from my mistakes.

I figure I have about 10-13 weeks left on this grow log as I move into flower and then to harvesting and curing. Time will tell if anything discussed here actually turned out to be useful to anyone, but I hope so. It's my way of giving back the gift you all have given me with your help and encouragement. :) Thank you everyone! :thumbsup:

Emmie

They're looking terrific Emmy :thumbsup:
I'm really looking forward to watching as you work through scrogging. I'm not trying it myself yet but I find it a really attractive method.
Fingers crossed for #3 being a girl too

Hey Y'all. Snowy greetings from the midwest! Last night I learned the power of good smoke to plow driveways. My friend showed up with his 4x4 with the plow on the front claiming he was bored and just wanted to help. After an hour of scraping I had huge piles of snow and no driveway problem. He was rewarded with a big doobie of some very heady white widow along with a bit of cuddling. I don't think I am going to worry about snow any longer. :)

Anyway... now that Emmie is happy, on with the grow log. Today is the 8 week mark. #3 still is not clearly showing sex, but I am still leaning female on it. Both plants are responding rapidly to the nutrients just introduced by showing strong growth as well as a deep greening of all the leaves starting from the bottom and moving up the plants as time progresses. I will stick with the suggested levels at every other watering until the girls tell me to do something different.

Clones are still standing up, and at 6 days old have started to yellow at the bottom leaves. I understand that this is normal as the roots start to form and am calmly continuing my twice a day misting until I see roots coming out the bottom of the starter containers. I have plastic cups ready for their next stage in a week or two.

In the big tent, we are training on the screen. I counted how many openings I have (220) and counted how many holes are presently claimed by growth (20). This is 9%. I will flip the switch at 40% and continue to train under the screen for about the first 2 weeks of flowering.

A word about my screen. Notice that it angles up toward the back. I did this for a couple of reasons after seeing this done in a couple of professional SCRog grows. First was ease of working under the screen. If I sit on my cooler in the tent, I can easily reach under the screen and still easily see the top and what I am doing. Talk about SCRoging with ease! The second idea is this. The most active growing is at the top of the branches, which will tend to be at the top of the screen. The closer to the top they get, the closer to the light they also get. I am thinking that this will provide incentive for the plants to grow more rapidly at the tops. Later in flowering when the canopy is established, it will be an easy matter to tilt the light at this same angle and get to a 4" distance across the length of the screen.

I am sure that on the next grow when i have 4 plants under the screen this idea will not work and the screen will go back to a level 10" front and back, but for this grow I am going to experiment with this idea. Live and learn!

Thats all for now... I hope you are all having a wonderful week.
Here are some SCRog pictures!

Emmie

Just popped in to check on your progress. You are doing a great job! :thumbsup:

Emmie, can you get some real close ups of the nodes on those plants? If you can, I'm sure some of us here will be able to sex them for you. In that second picture, almost dead center, is a node that looks like it is showing something but it is too far away to tell.

Wishing you all the best with your SCROG'ing. :) Still hovering your thread. :S2:

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He was rewarded with a big doobie of some very heady white widow along with a bit of cuddling.

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OMG!...:rastabanna:

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Originally Posted by emilya

My friend showed up with his 4x4 with the plow on the front claiming he was bored and just wanted to help. [SNIPPET] He was rewarded with a big doobie of some very heady white widow along with a bit of cuddling.

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Yeah. he was bored...

Nothing like fringe benefits, eh? ;)

Note, we (guys) always bored. It's in our nature.

LMAO :s3:
Now there's a guy who I bet is praying his heart out for more snow.

Just a quick thanks, I am learning a lot of great stuff. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by emilya

A word about my screen. Notice that it angles up toward the back. I did this for a couple of reasons after seeing this done in a couple of professional SCRog grows. First was ease of working under the screen. If I sit on my cooler in the tent, I can easily reach under the screen and still easily see the top and what I am doing. Talk about SCRoging with ease! The second idea is this. The most active growing is at the top of the branches, which will tend to be at the top of the screen. The closer to the top they get, the closer to the light they also get. I am thinking that this will provide incentive for the plants to grow more rapidly at the tops. Later in flowering when the canopy is established, it will be an easy matter to tilt the light at this same angle and get to a 4" distance across the length of the screen.

I am sure that on the next grow when i have 4 plants under the screen this idea will not work and the screen will go back to a level 10" front and back, but for this grow I am going to experiment with this idea. Live and learn!

Thats all for now... I hope you are all having a wonderful week.
Here are some SCRog pictures!

Emmie

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I see your logic, but it won't work on a larger scale. Honestly it'll work just fine, but slightly misses the point.


When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. ;) )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results ;) )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!

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Originally Posted by canniwhatsis

I see your logic, but it won't work on a larger scale. Honestly it'll work just fine, but slightly misses the point.


When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. ;) )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results ;) )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!

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:postgood:
I am sensing a learning moment here! So, even after FIM'ing the girls, you make the point that by using a "relaxed" SCRog that I am missing out on the LST benefit that the horizontal SCRog screen would provide. hmmm. I see the logic of this too. So you are saying that a 60 degree bend is not nearly as effective as a 90 degree one would be. What's everyone think? Should I switch out the back supports and make this screen horizontal? It would be an easy matter to do this. Based on your experience already with SCRog Canni, I am ready to make this change yet today. I think the change in angle would instantly fill about 2% more of the screen too and would of course lower the light to the front of the screen where all the growing is going on. This morning I am watering, so the plants will be nice and supple later this afternoon with the added water. I will be monitoring the thread closely today to see what everyone thinks.

Lynhal, still working on a good picture of a node on #3. It is very strange what it is doing with these almost fang like calyx's. I will work a bit with the camera today now that I have some time available and see what I can come up with for you.

Emmie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canniwhatsis

When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. ;) )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results ;) )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!

---

"Auxins are an important class of plant hormones, that have diverse and complex biological effects. By definition, a hormone is a compound that is made in one part of an organism, but has its affect in another part."
Auxins and Plant Growth

Auxins control the lateral branching. Bend the tallest meristem (growing tip) to below the level of a neighboring growing tip, and the higher one (vertically) will be the recipient of the plant's growth-focus. No clue how in the world the plant knows which is tallest...but it knows...:wtf:
The point is not to make a 60 or 90 degree bend, it's simply to tie the growing tip to below the level of it's neighbor.

Use care when moving the pot once tied-up.

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by canniwhatsis View Post
When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!.[/QUOTE]

this is a great bit of info as i plan to do the bend soon! thanks guys....
i did pop in to check out plants cool stuff brva rabbit.....

like this pic i suppose

hope you dont class this as thread jacking sori ppls

info 4 all

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Originally Posted by jaydee84

like this pic i suppose

hope you dont class this as thread jacking sori ppls

info 4 all

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no... its all good Jaydee... I am here to learn. And where that takes us no one knows... you might say that I bend to the opportunities that present themselves. :)

Rusty and Canni... very good as always. That makes perfect sense. I am eyeballing my PVC collection now for some shorter supports in the back. Once again, Emmie's assumptions give way to solid science. I am so very pleased that I have you all here to teach me!

Emmie

[QUOTE=Rusty and Canni... very good as always. [/QUOTE]

yep


sweet as.....a nut from the nuttiest nut tree let that be the nut for me hehehehe

dont ask lol!!

Just stopped in to:rastabanna: