New Induction Grow light

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Originally Posted by krazyken

Close the thread it's trashed. :wtf:

Ken

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Probably true that the thread, that started very interesting, was trashed at some point. But you have been posting, together with khyberkitsune, since it was trashed, highjacking it just in the search of profit for your business.

Thread started by RackitMan asking for new flourescent induction lights. Bubas chime in with very enriching data about them and started a good debate about the possibilities of the new tecnology. He wanted to do some serious tests to check how it works. He started them, but unfortunatelly he only reported results from the starting progress.

At some point, he stopped posting (17 March of this year, more than 5 months ago). Still some other growers tried to continue the topic with interesting posts (Steveat1, squearepush3r, vannewb and some others), but khyberkitsune closed any debate negating any other arguments solely based on being an "expert" working in this field and knowing much more than any other one, when his arguments were not convincing. That is what trashed the thead, people with interesting contributions gone, on the last months nothing new appeared, only khyberkitsune talk, with no tests, no pics, no good info....nothing.

My purpose when I posted to unmask khyberkitsune is to give possibility to those who were aporting to the thread and gone when he closed all oportunities of constructive debate to come back and be able to learn something from people actually experimenting with induction lights, no vendor's BS.

knna i also read this thread a couple times through and i really have no clue about all of this lighting stuff. yes khyber sounds like he knows what he is talking about, but you seem to think otherwise. i have been searching for an led light to buy, actually a couple, for around a month in a half, but havent found a site that im willing to invest my money in yet.

so knna my question is do you know a good led grow light source. i have checked out prosource, growledhydro, advancedled, and many others. a year ago i actually bought a 90w sunshinesystem ufo and it vegged really well buuuuttttt like everyone else i didnt get to flower it fully bc i was in appartment and had to move.

so i guess this question goes out to anyone who knows where to get a quality led, and please no one say friggin e-bay. also i talked to some at one prosoucre and he said that like 3w leds are a sham. he said you dont get more light penetration you get less? he said that the best leds a high quality 1w diodes.

someone give me some direction im so lost. everyone tells you something different. after this im done rambling but i have an led or i guess induction ,which im not real comfortable with buying at this point, bc of the area im growing in and i wanna be "low-profile". HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by jacksparrow

... i have been searching for an led light to buy, actually a couple, for around a month in a half, but havent found a site that im willing to invest my money in yet.

so knna my question is do you know a good led grow light source. ...

... which im not real comfortable with buying at this point, bc of the area im growing in and i wanna be "low-profile". HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Jacksparrow i'm in the same position as you as long with dozens or hundreds of other prospective purchasers.

There's no consensus yet on LEDs. Lots of convincing looking marketing, and some people have done decent grows with certain LEDs. But you seem to have to adjust your style for the lower heat of LEDs, e.g., move the plants closer, water less, etc.

In another forum seems to recommend KNNA building your own LED lamp for best spectrum & efficiency. A bit daunting for regular folks especially when the best mix of led spectrums is still being debated.

Induction seems like a potentially useful half-measure... less power than HID, but compensated for by targetted spectrum. The issue is: do the currently available power+spectrum combinations live up to the hype? Very little info right now. All we know for sure is that 6400k induction lights are poor for flowering, and that Khyber thinks he can get m-land to produce a much better spectrum than their current bi-spectrum units.

Unfortunately, the people who have spent the money on these units so far have not reported their results.

The problem is LED industry is very inmature yet. And the related to horticulture, its barely a new born. First product on a industry usually are not good or very expensive. As industry matures, product go improving and competence drive prices down.

And it goes together with general LED industry fight to improve perfomance/price.

I would say that thing has reached a point that I expect good comercial horticultural LED light to be released from next year, able to be cost effective against other type of lightings.

Right now, LEDs can only be cost effective on small setups, IMHO. There are situations (grow area cooled by AA, for example) where they can be cost effective on larger dimensions, however.

But If you can wait a while, do it. Next year it is to expect you will have some good lamps to choose at decent prices per watt.

I dont know any comercial lamp good enough I may recomend it, and less with a good price per watt.

Thats why I recomend people to build them, but not all the people have the will, skills or time to do it. Most people using LED lamps right now are either experienced growers that want to experiment with them and help in the development of the new lighting paradigma, or new growers that, once they have to make an investment on lighting, decided to spend a little more thinking on the long term. Second case is partially a good choice (small grows) and partially not because they was somewhat fooled by marketing BS so they expected way more than actually these lamps can produce.

Induction light, on the other hand, arnt really new at all. Its just some chinese manufacturers started some ago to produce units for horticulture (both for spectrum and power range) at decent prices. I feel actual perfomance is far from claims, but I dont know for sure. Thats why I was interested at the start of this thread, looking for feedback from people using them. Although probably there is a lot of BS too around induction lamps, one thing is better than with LED lamps:

LEDs avalaible have a very large gap of efficiencies, and as manufacturers never inform exactly of the model and bin used (and I believe little when they do it), buying them is kind of a lottery. You can get an unit working decently or directly garbage valid as much for vegging.

On the other hand, fluorescent induction is more mature and its intrinsically a technology that result on small differences on efficiency between top brands and chinese copies (many times, top brands subcontract manufacturing with them). Thus, maybe not satisfy some claims, but at least you know they work decently. So if you get them for cheap, that is possible, its a decent option.

jacksparrow, I didnt said that khyber si ignorant. He is somebody that has read about lighting and other growing related topics, and knows more than the average grower about some topics. But he closed a debate with the argument of being an expert working on the field and its obviously false. He put it in his signature and that is dishonest. I felt in the duty, because I have the knowledge required to notice it, of warning other people about him not being who pretend. Thats all. I dont have any personal against him and dont have any problem he continues giving his opinion and sharing with other growers as far as do it without lies that may mislead other growers. And I would like to pass over it and keep the thread on topic.

i appreciate the help guys. i know im getting off the topic of induction lighting but i am new to this forum and have some questions. the reason im really looking into leds or even possibly induction is bc im doing an attic grow, dont worry i have the heating and cooling issue already taken care of, but im worried about flir. see, i dont want to use the "ordinary grow bulb" bc im worried the heat signature will put a huge bullseye on my place and im def. wanting to avoid that. if i did use a bulb like a high pressure sodium bulb could i vent out of my room into the unused attic space to have a more uniform heat signature or is my signature unavoidable? or should i stick with led or induction? or should i just give up on the attic? any and all input welcome. i promise after this i wont get this thread off topic anymore. thanks for having patience with me.

hi guys,i have been running the 400w bi-spectrum super grow light for 2 months now, just went to flower last week, biggest problem i see is the foot print is so small,and the reflector is crap i took the glass out and it looks like it is much brighter and covers way more area.one question i have is. if the one side is 6400k [blue] how come my t5 6400k is pure white [to my eye's]should not both the [induction] and [t5] 6400k be the same colour?......luke

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Originally Posted by lbrends

hi guys,i have been running the 400w bi-spectrum super grow light for 2 months now, just went to flower last week, biggest problem i see is the foot print is so small,and the reflector is crap i took the glass out and it looks like it is much brighter and covers way more area.one question i have is. if the one side is 6400k [blue] how come my t5 6400k is pure white [to my eye's]should not both the [induction] and [t5] 6400k be the same colour?......luke

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Very interesting about the reflector. When I saw the pics I thought it will reflect many light back to the own lamp.

But if you take out the reflector, the more light yet is going to go upwards, not towards plants. ¿? How did you managed to avoid it?

The difference you notice between the two 6400K is mostly due you are not comparing them with other lights of other very different tone. If you do,you still will notice some difference, but will look very similar.

Its related to human's eye ability to adaptation and our brain ability to change the "white balance", as cameras. There are thousands different spectrums able to get same CCT rating (xxxx K). Although overall color tone alone is almost the same, chromatic reproduction isnt, it depends of how is the exact spectrum that generated that given CCT. So as light is reflected back, you notice the difference and one 6400K may appear greenish regarding the other, for example, more bluish (but if you put a 2700K lamp at side, you will notice both 6400K as mostly bluish).

On the other hand, there is tolerances between the rating and the actual CCT emitted, which increases with use (age of lamp). If actually both lamps are emiting at 6550K and 6300K, example perfectly possible, difference would be way more noticiable.

jacksparrow, I didnt answer because I really dont know what LEO finds using FLIR cameras and how they use them. Probably what they look for is for heated air column being exhausted the house and some room being hotter than others. The better insulated the house walls, the less difference in temperature between walls of different rooms they will notice. Aswell, materials reflecting back IR on the inner walls minimize observed temperature for the outside. Of course, the closer the temperature of the growroom to the rest of the hosue, the more difficult to notice something, and its way easier to achieve with an smaller heat load. If you grow on a cabinet not along a wall that looks to the outside, and the temp of the room is similar to the rest of the house, likely is very difficult that any FLIR camera reveals anything. If htere is no hot air being exhausted to the outside coupled with that, I believe FLIR detection shouldnt be an issue.

Hello knna,

Long time no see....cause I was away for awhile. Glad to see you still comming around here, the average board IQ goes up significantly when you are around. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by knna

Very interesting about the reflector. When I saw the pics I thought it will reflect many light back to the own lamp.

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You hit one of the major problems with these induction bulbs, they are huge at least a T-12 and I remember the one from 25 years ago seemed even bigger. They can't help but to reflect back on themselves. Wasn't worth growing with back then and I still think they are not worth growing with.

On the other hand, interesting lights comming from both LG Electronics and Luxim corporation. New generation of plasma light, can be true "full spectrum" with great watt/lumen conversion. Just the prices need to come down. And decent grow light company needs apply them properly.

Take care, see ya around. :D

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Originally Posted by oldmac

On the other hand, interesting lights comming from both LG Electronics and Luxim corporation. New generation of plasma light, can be true "full spectrum" with great watt/lumen conversion. Just the prices need to come down. And decent grow light company needs apply them properly.

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When do the lights come out?

How long til they're tested?

Always lots of exciting-sounding light technologies just around the corner. But almost never does someone independent make a decent comparison of their grow performance. I guess because they hardly ever live up to the hype.

Hi there vannewb,

Luxim is already shipping the acutal working part to other mfgs now. For grow lights with these, see Chameleon Grow Systems who even has 2- LiFi lights combined with some LEDs and is asking almost $7k for it, system VI I think it is called. But their designs looks like crap to me. Stray Light Optical Technologies is building reef illuminaries for the aquarium market, these actually look better for growing, but they have a strange degree kelvin, they may or may not work. Claims that 288 watts is equal to 400-465 watts of HID is what Luxim is talking. Oh and without the heat. We will see soon.:D

Yep, those and others (GAVITA) are releasing plasma bulbs right now. Too expensive for the moment.

Results Im aware of point up to excelent quality, but really not higher yields per watt burned than HPS. If they were no so expensive, they would be a nice alternative.

Notice that "plasma" lamps are actually induction (electrodeless) lamps, but HID ones (high intensity) while the lamps this thread was comenting are fluorescent induction (low pressure) ones. While with fluorescent induction the spectrum may be similar to that obtained by standard, with electrodes, fluorescents, with HIDs things change. Plama allows to get very different spectrums, but all being released for the moment are strongly greenish and with a relatively low red (especially deep red) emission (thats why the LiFi comes with deep red leds).

Right now the larger drawback of these lamps are the ballast losses, which are very significative and account for a way larger percentage in regards to bulb's power than with conventional HIDs. So when you ask a manufacturer about them, always ask for the system (ballast+bulb) power. They tend to forget to inform about it, you know.

Oldmac, Im glad to see you recovered and posting again. I hope all is right now for you :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by MrLegal

i was looking at some here InductionLamps.com: Your source for all Induction Lamps and Fixtures only 340$ for a 300watt tell me what u think

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Do they come with all necessary parts though? looks like and un-wired ballast and bulb to me... and their grow lights at the bottom are way over priced

lol u can just buy the Remote Ballast Induction Lamp and hang it you self right?
i mean if u get the 2700k it would be the same as there grow light. i would like to know if this would work too

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Originally Posted by MrLegal

lol u can just buy the Remote Ballast Induction Lamp and hang it you self right?
i mean if u get the 2700k it would be the same as there grow light. i would like to know if this would work too

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That's what I'm doing, having one of those lamp being shipped from china. In a few months we'll discover how well it works.

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Originally Posted by knna

Results Im aware of point up to excelent quality, but really not higher yields per watt burned than HPS. If they were no so expensive, they would be a nice alternative.

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As far as I'm concerned the main measure of "quality" that matters is yields/watt.

If these lights don't outperform HPS then they're a waste of time.

My "120w" induction lamp arrived recently.

I plugged it in and tested the voltage & current going to the ballast : 0.6a @ 120.0v. (both are accurate to 1/10th). This means my lamp is only consuming 66w-78w of power.

If anyone else has a chinese made induction lamp i'd be very interested to hear how much power it's actually consuming vs. the sticker.

i will check out my 400w bi-spectrum i heard it is only 360w but i will see for myself.

very impressive results with my 100 watt induction for clone and veg with the 400 watt inda-gro lights. Plasma really doesn't have an edge over induction horticulture lamps.

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Originally Posted by calbunn

very impressive results with my 100 watt induction for clone and veg with the 400 watt inda-gro lights. Plasma really doesn't have an edge over induction horticulture lamps.

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I notice all your posts are about the induction lamp. You sure do like them and are a very good sales rep. for them but do you have any pics of your garden to show?

I know that if I was touting them as much as you I'd be showing pics as proof. That would really help to sell the product.

:rastasmoke:

Does anyone know where i can reliably get an induction light that is proven to be close to the production of a 400w HID?!?!?

No one has shown any results from growing with induction.

I put a kill-a-watt on my 120w induction & 250w HPS (magnetic ballast). They apparently consumed 110w & 350w respectively.

I'm going to run a test with 120w induction + 23w T5HO vs. the 250w HPS.

I wanted to do a 2:1 power comparison but it'll be more like 2.5:1 comparison.

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Originally Posted by YouGrowBoy

I notice all your posts are about the induction lamp. You sure do like them and are a very good sales rep. for them but do you have any pics of your garden to show?

I know that if I was touting them as much as you I'd be showing pics as proof. That would really help to sell the product.

:rastasmoke:

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Thanks for the compliment. These grows have been averaging around 300 grams p/meter. much lower temperatures in the room and I've not had a spider mite issue in four grows. So the HID probably made that a favorable environment me thinks. Pics as requested!

calbun do you use the 400w as a 1-for-1 replacement with your 1000w HPS?

Or would you use something like 3 inductions for every 2 HPSs?

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Originally Posted by calbunn

Thanks for the compliment. These grows have been averaging around 300 grams p/meter. much lower temperatures in the room and I've not had a spider mite issue in four grows. So the HID probably made that a favorable environment me thinks. Pics as requested!

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:wtf: First pic looks like it's still in vege,.... 2nd,.... well there's no size comparison, but I've gotten better off of my HPS.


So what's the sell on the induction? Show me some finished plants just before cut!:cool::wtf:

So the jury still out or has someone out there put a room to head and can show us all some pics
Thanks
HeadDownunder

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Originally Posted by hilights

So the jury still out or has someone out there put a room to head and can show us all some pics

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If calbunn claims his "400w" induction can match a 1000w HPS, then my "120w" induction ought to match a 250w HPS.

My friend thinks the induction won't even yield 1/3 as much as the HPS. Personally I expect to yield 2/3 or 3/4 as much. I guess we'll see once the show is on the road!

Mland brand and super grow unbranded look the same is the unbranded super grow the same lamp, all these things look great as we all know the big question is do they have enough power to penetrate deep enough to produce good big bud.So the site that sells the Mland is the same one that sells the LEDS and well I don't like em .
What about the INDA-gro is this the same concept as the others how dose it compare
Thanks so far All your ideas have been helpfull
HeadDownunder

Here is a link to our a grow with a Parmax EFDL 200 watter 2700K YouTube - Inductiongrow this is at 5 weeks of flower but you can follow his other post from the beginning. I have spent the last few months figuring out a couple of serious issues with induction lights. First the ballast were overheating and causing the lights to flicker after about 6 hours of operation. This eventually blew the ballast. the second issue was the bulb would lose output to about half brightness after a few hours of operation but was fine when it cooled down. Well after countless hours we finnally addressed the issues and had our manufacturer fix the problems according to our directions.(wasn't easy with a language barrier!!)
Since then we noticed a few new importers introduced a new induction light called the bispectrum or super grow light. The bispectrum light is a combonation of two different phosphours to produce one half of the bulb in 2700K and the other half with the dreaded purple color spectrum. I have attached a copy of our 300 watt spectral distribution test along with the bispectrum spectral test. At first you are going to be blown away by the spectral graph of the bispectrum test, but if you continue to read the report, you will find that the luminous efficiency is only 10.4 lumins/watt (although resellers are quoting 40 lumins/watt) sure the spectrum looks great on both red and blue scale but light penatration is a big issue with these lights. If you compare it to the 2700K 300 watt test you will see that the light efficiency is much better at 81 lumins/ watt and punching out over 33000 lumins. With a bit of tweaking , we believe we can get the 300 watt 2700K induction light to come close to 800 watts of HPS. If you read the 2700K test you will see that this light peaks at 615nM and peaters off in the far red. This is very close to the spectral distribution of HPS except the HPS has more in the green and yellow range and also lacks in the far red. My idea is to suppliment the missing wavelengths with LEDs. We are going to build a 300 watt EFDL with built in supplimental led's. I'm hoping to add about 50 watts of led.
There are a lot of sceptics out there for these lights so what i'm going to do is i am going to give this light to a lucky cadidate to do a nonbias grow journal anyone interested? We already know our 300 watt EFDL 2700K works and keeps up to 600 watts of LED and HPS but i'm confident the added spectrum will knock this light out of the park!
I'm still trying to source a supplier of LED's so i should have this light ready in about a month.

I'm having troubles loading the bispectrum test it seems too large a file i will try to shrink it

Thanks for that info bubbas. Looks like a great job your doing .In your opinion the "super grow" Light(Mland) would not work as well as yours.and would you say the INDA-Gro is much the same as what you are using.

Hi Hilights,
I can't say for sure the new and improved bispectrums won't work as well as standard spectrum bulbs but their specifications sure point in that direction. I testd the first generation all purple lights and they were terrible. They like first gen LED's vegged well but fell flat on the flowering so to improve it they made half the bulb in 2700K. I don't have a lot of info on the inda gro. i see they have 5250K. This color is a full spectrum color that has blue and red spectrum in it however more in the visible range of green and yellow light and less red but decent blue. I would suggest to ask them for a spectral power distribution test data. Their grow light fixture does look better than the Mland as there is no glass and the ballast is out in the open. The mland fixture is actually a tunnel lamp fixture. It has the ballast fully enclosed within the fixture and a piece of glass to protect the bulb. It's IP68 which means its waterproof but why? are we growing outdoors? It only causes overheating issues. We had overheating issues even without glass and our ballast was not enclosed so having it IP68 would make overheating matters worse.Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying others are shit so we can sell more of ours but we don't want disappointed growers who spent a lot of cash for these lights and have them perform poorly and in return telling the world that induction lights are crap. We know they work and are in the next stage of improving them to work even better than any other grow light out there.
We look at HPS and MH lights like old 60's muscle cars, Lots of HP and gobbled up fuel like there was no tommorow. LED's and induction lights are like the new gen of muscle cars more hp but sips fuel. Did you know that Hyundai's sport coupe is quicker than almost all the 60's and 70's muscle cars but still gets 30MPG that's technology!!

Well I for one am interested in these lights. Granted the initial startup cost is higher than HID but considering that you don't have the heat generated you get with HPS and the bulbs last far longer in the long run it is actually comparable to HPS. I have been looking at the inductionlamps.com 500w light in 2700k and after adding the cost of a ballast, hood, bulb (every 8 months to a year), hood cooling fan, tubing, squirrel cage etc of a 1000w HPS they are only a couple hundred more, and that is if I get the cheap ballast instead of the digital.

I would like to use a Aquamist system with it so the penetration isn't as much of an issue since they are so short in that table but of course a side by side, even with an HPS at the same watt as the induction, in an actual grow would be the clincher for me. I'm not trying to save power but heat and the necessity of venting heat. It would be a pain to set that up in my home with all the tubing and necessity of tearing apart my vent system to reach the outdoors from my basement, once my state goes medical.

IMHO the best light is still a true sulphur plasma from plasma-i but they aren't retail yet and cost WAYYYY too much. That full spectrum would be amazing though.

Hi bubbas
That gives me a better perspective on things and I'll bet your right, these "Mland" and I presume "Super grow" that look the same and have the same marketing blurb (water proof ? lasts for a human life time etc etc ) if it sounds to good to be true it probably is , Are made for another purpose ,not growing heads indoors.
It surprises me that there is not more people out there absolutely raving about these super grow lights (looks the same as Mland) if they really worked I'm in OZ and we only just got them here but there bin around for a while in America

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Originally Posted by jstepp590

Well I for one am interested in these lights. Granted the initial startup cost is higher than HID but considering that you don't have the heat generated you get with HPS and the bulbs last far longer in the long run it is actually comparable to HPS. I have been looking at the inductionlamps.com 500w light in 2700k and after adding the cost of a ballast, hood, bulb (every 8 months to a year), hood cooling fan, tubing, squirrel cage etc of a 1000w HPS they are only a couple hundred more, and that is if I get the cheap ballast instead of the digital.

I would like to use a Aquamist system with it so the penetration isn't as much of an issue since they are so short in that table but of course a side by side, even with an HPS at the same watt as the induction, in an actual grow would be the clincher for me. I'm not trying to save power but heat and the necessity of venting heat. It would be a pain to set that up in my home with all the tubing and necessity of tearing apart my vent system to reach the outdoors from my basement, once my state goes medical.

IMHO the best light is still a true sulphur plasma from plasma-i but they aren't retail yet and cost WAYYYY too much. That full spectrum would be amazing though.

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Oops, I just watched the video you posted on your prior post using the 200w induction. Great job on that plant, it looks amazing, and thank you for posting the video. After seeing that I no longer need a side by side with a HPS, that is more than good enough for me. If that is the 200w in 2700k I am FASCINATED to see what the 500w will do!

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Originally Posted by bubbas

Hi Hilights,
I can't say for sure the new and improved bispectrums won't work as well as standard spectrum bulbs but their specifications sure point in that direction. I testd the first generation all purple lights and they were terrible. They like first gen LED's vegged well but fell flat on the flowering so to improve it they made half the bulb in 2700K. I don't have a lot of info on the inda gro. i see they have 5250K. This color is a full spectrum color that has blue and red spectrum in it however more in the visible range of green and yellow light and less red but decent blue. I would suggest to ask them for a spectral power distribution test data. Their grow light fixture does look better than the Mland as there is no glass and the ballast is out in the open. The mland fixture is actually a tunnel lamp fixture. It has the ballast fully enclosed within the fixture and a piece of glass to protect the bulb. It's IP68 which means its waterproof but why? are we growing outdoors? It only causes overheating issues. We had overheating issues even without glass and our ballast was not enclosed so having it IP68 would make overheating matters worse.Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying others are shit so we can sell more of ours but we don't want disappointed growers who spent a lot of cash for these lights and have them perform poorly and in return telling the world that induction lights are crap. We know they work and are in the next stage of improving them to work even better than any other grow light out there.
We look at HPS and MH lights like old 60's muscle cars, Lots of HP and gobbled up fuel like there was no tommorow. LED's and induction lights are like the new gen of muscle cars more hp but sips fuel. Did you know that Hyundai's sport coupe is quicker than almost all the 60's and 70's muscle cars but still gets 30MPG that's technology!!

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I really like your Hyundai analogy and it's relevance to the induction lights. I've personally seen 4 of the 400 watt induction lights that inda-gro makes installed in a 10' x 10' room where there had been 3 1000 watt hps. The room is definetly cooler and the plants were within the last week or two of grow so the kush buds were as good as I'd seen under the hps grows.

For now I'm just using the inda-gro 100 watters for cloning and veg. I like them and would certainly recommend them over the other energy efficient fixture/lamp combination's I've tried. But I'm no expert. What I've learned about induction I picked up from forums like this and the inda-gro site.

I would be very much interested in testing out your induction lighting, I'm currently using a 400 watt med halide....with a broad spectrum band width.
in return I will give a full in-depth analysis of the products performance for the privilege of testing the system. thanks for the opportunity:Chris:)

Try calling Inda-Gro and ask for Darryl. They may have a way of doing that for you but you'll never know unless you ask. They do rock though.

Hi all,
I've read almost half of this thread. These are my personal opinions about these lights. If i say anything wrong, please correct me.
I don't know much about LED and HPS, i know only CFL. I'll just compare with CFL.
The comparison based on 5 years continuously flowering and for one plant only! In reality it may make much more difference.

First of all they're very expensive! No other thoughts at all :)
Yes they have longlife like 25 years in 12/12 flowering. 5 years warranty.
Lets say i bought a 200W around $450 plus delivery ($100) on ebay. I'm saying it because first of all i must look my ability to buy these. Thats the only source right now i could find cheapest.
I can also buy myself 8x 23w (184W in total) 2500k cfl's for $35 only, from a store here 30 mins from home. Not those cheap chinese things. They're Osram and they have specific spectrums. I also have cheapest chinese bulbs, one is pink and the other one is orange look. I don't have time to waste on unknown pink or orange 2700k's (?). If anyone has and if they work well that'll save much more money.
Do CFL's only have 6 months? After 6 months needs to be replaced? No problem. This makes 70$ per year and 350$ for 5 years. $200 saved! (By the way god knows what will happen in 5 years. There were no grow leds 2 years ago for example. No one can guarantee what will happen to you tomorrow. So putting half thousand bucks on a lamp for long term (specially for 25 years?) didn't seem too clever to me.)
All say CFL's are hot. Yes they are, 2 computer fan is enough to cool them down ($5).Thats what i do. If you still say too hot, there are some other options such as two pins CFL's. They work as cool as these lights (Writing 25C on Osram's website).Outputs 85lm/w. I don't know exact prices of those (bulb+ballast) but i must say if you buy, in 5 years they'll average self ballasted CFL's.
Lets continue the comparison with self ballasted CFL's.
8x23w CFL :12000lm approx. Well enough for a plant. Average light supply for every side of the plant.
1x200w Ind:9000lm, some other sources say 1600lm but it depends on spectrum i guess. 9000lm looks enough for a plant. "No supplemental lights needed" said. But tests showed, results were far from HPS. Only recommended with supplemental CFL's for better results??? One 4x23W used here. That makes 300W/14800lm in total. Well enough for a plant but what is the point of using these lights then? This i'm saying here also same for the LED's.
And here are the graphics. What makes this lights more useful (%96) for plants?

HPS [attachment=o260514] Induction[attachment=o260516] 2700k CFL [attachment=o260515]

I'm a simple CFL user. I don't understand much on terms and I don't want to obstacle anyone specially in business. I just want to run HPS but my room will not let me to do. So I interested any kind of other alternatives but reasonable. I will not fly to the moon with these lamps. If i fly, that will be only self flying and will be fair enough :jointsmile:
Stay in peace :hippy:

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So I interested any kind of other alternatives but reasonable. I will not fly to the moon with these lamps. If i fly, that will be only self flying and will be fair enough :jointsmile:

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If I couldn't go HID lighting?....I would go High Output T5's or PL-L fluorescent tubes.

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-li...ent-tubes.html

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Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

If I couldn't go HID lighting?....I would go High Output T5's or PL-L fluorescent tubes.

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Thanks DP. I actually meant this PL-L tubes by sayin 2 pins and that was the first thing in my mind, maybe not for this grow but next one i'm switching to them for sure.

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Originally Posted by tevfik

Thanks DP. I actually meant this PL-L tubes by sayin 2 pins and that was the first thing in my mind, maybe not for this grow but next one i'm switching to them for sure.

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with CFL's, T5's, PL-L or any other fluoros...you have to SCROG, etc...keep plants low, wide & short...:thumbsup: