Closet Doms in Water.... An Ad Hoc Log of Black Dominas in DWC Hydro

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Originally Posted by MVP

Lower screen is used during Veg and first 2-3 weeks of Flower to tuck under and weave (and at times to tie shoots LST style when they are too big to tuck and/or weave).

Upper screen is to use when Flower stretch begins to support weight of colas and keep them upright.

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When do you switch to flowering? I think that the reason you need to use two screens is that you are vegging until the screen is full. The point of the traditional SCRoG is so that the ONLY thing sticking through the screen is buds. To do that, the plants are usually put into flowering JUST as they hit the tip of the screen, so that the 'flower stretch' can be used to fill the screen. After that, it's only buds coming through.

I propose you call the method you are using D-SCRoG, for dual screen of green :D

I am interested to see how this grow turns out with your dscrog :)

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Rock.....hydro calls....:D

They look fucking excellent. Could you post your numbers for me when you have a chance MVP? Just want to see whats causing that great growth.

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Sure Hound, what numbers are of interest to you? BTW, I'm flushing tonight and will be going with fresh nutes tomorrow night heading into the weekend.

Just let me know what you are after and I will post it up for all to see... :smokin:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

cm asked me this and I don't have a clue....any of you guys got a plan for manicuring and drying your plants? In other words....how are you planning to get that screen off them? Cutting it? Thoughts on how to hang, trim and dry such branches? Do you guys plan on reusing that same screenfor your next grow or a new one each time.?

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I plan to harvest them by removing one cola at a time and stringing them up on hangers and/or clothesline after doing a (hopefully) quick hand manicure. The way these are growing so far, all of the buds are above the lower screen and it doesn't appear that they are going to stretch to reach the upper screen. That means they should be able to be reused.

So to describe the process in more detail: cut the stem just above the lower screen, hold cola (using latex gloves to make finger hash/resin collection easier) to manicure, then take a sturdy needle and thread (or fishing line), push the needle+thread thru the stem, and hang them to dry on a clothesline inside a drying cabinet by either tying off the thread into a loop or using clothespins to attach to the line.

Hope that makes sense... let me know :weedpoke:

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Originally Posted by cmasfca

When do you switch to flowering? I think that the reason you need to use two screens is that you are vegging until the screen is full. The point of the traditional SCRoG is so that the ONLY thing sticking through the screen is buds. To do that, the plants are usually put into flowering JUST as they hit the tip of the screen, so that the 'flower stretch' can be used to fill the screen. After that, it's only buds coming through.

I propose you call the method you are using D-SCRoG, for dual screen of green :D

I am interested to see how this grow turns out with your dscrog :)

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Well CM, looks like the D screen in D-SCROG is gonna stand for "dumped", as in I ditched the upper screen last night as I was tired of fighting it to maintain the garden. I can still add it back to the room if needed, but it doesn't look necessary. I guess it was nice to have as a precaution in case stretching got out of hand. Also I grew a pure indica strain this time, while last time I had Blueberry growing in the same room and it stretched a foot taller than the Dominas.

Either way the garden is a ton easier to manage as I can raise the light and tuck/rearrange leaves and tops without smashing others, which has happened a few times in the past week.

The way my grow started out, I was behind schedule when I moved them into the grow area. The prior crop had nute def. problems and the Dominas were growing into monsters in a temporary area. When they finally got into their room 2-3 weeks behind schedule, I had to ad-lib; hence the circus of a SCROG I found myself running.

It does appear that this story will have a happy ending as the Dominas are budding nicely and not stretching. They are quite fragrant too. Now all I have to do is bring them home over the next 5-6 weeks by keeping their nutes balanced and everything else in check....

MVP :jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by SnSstealth

:smokin: at what point should i start manupulating the plants to make my set up scrog? 5-6 internodes?

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I start manipulating mine just as soon as I feel comfortable topping them. You just got to use your best judgment, because you should also consider the health factor. If she's already stressing, then don't add more. In general though when they get about 5 nodes I'll top and start heading them in the right directions. You can either top or just pull them down and let bottom shoots get light. These will grow into a new branch. I think I like to top at least once though, usually 2 or 3 times, so that both branches will be of the same vigor. LST leaves one or two predominant branches, and eventually colas.

Originally Posted by Weedhound http://boards.cannabis.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
So do you think he scrogging has slowed down your flowering period at all?

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Originally Posted by MVP

Not so far as I can tell, but it may be too early for me to say that for certain. They do look rather nice but I cannot remember what the Dominas looked like after 3 weeks into the first grow.

Good question Hound, stay tuned and I'll answer that one in a few weeks...

MVP :jointsmile:

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WH, why would you think a screen would slow down flowering? Just like cause of stress from hitting the screen or something? I've never noticed any slow down, but I've never thought about looking for it either. Maybe we need to add the "side by side, completely fair screen stress test", to our list of studies.

Originally Posted by MVP:
Pics as of 1/30 - 23 days into flower

Wow.

We've got bush!!!

Because as far as I'm concerned you guys are pretty much doing "supercropping" and if not that....then close to it.

I was yelling at Rock on his thread about always doing something to his plants. I personally think....DISCLAIMER......that every single time you do something to the plants, retie them, push things around, pick off a few fan leaves, change a growth direction, pinch off a branch, snip off a "quick nug" for trying .....ANYTHING.... you are making the plant stop what it is doing....... growing......and concentrate on fixing whatever problem has just come up and it doesn't really go back to full on growing until said problem is taken care. Sure...a fan leaf may only set the plant back by an hour or so but now add that up .....couple a day, tieing and retying leaves forcing the plant to make changes to the light....etc etc etc and from what i've seen when I overprune my plants is very extended bloom time and depending on the circs.....perhaps lesser yield.

And I know you have to train them for a scrog so that's why I'm curious if it extends the bloom time.

I was actually going to mention it on your thread opie.....you have a million budsites but they are all small. I think (just guessing) you are going to have an extended bloom time but if you keep training from here on out to a MINIMUM you will eventually get some good yield to your buds. If you keep "fixing them" again and again.....well I do think it will affect yield as well eventually but......DISCLAIMER THREE.....it's just my opinion.

Interestingly.....cm there is pretty close to done in 8 weeks bloom so with his grow I'd have to say it did not......but I'm curious about you guys as well.

And if the plants DO put out more bud due to better lighting.....will that affect bloom time also? Does a three oz plant and a six oz plant mature at the same time if they are the same strain?

These are all questions I ask about our universe. Just.....exploring our world. :D

Originally Posted by Weedhound

...any of you guys got a plan for manicuring and drying your plants?
Pretty much same as most people I think.

...how are you planning to get that screen off them? Cutting it?
Cutting the screen, are you nuts dear girl? Why would I do that? It took me like 2 hours to make it.

Thoughts on how to hang, trim and dry such branches?
Sometimes I use a screen but usually I hang them upside down. Right after I take them out of the grow screen I usually cut off the biggest leaves and a few of the smaller ones, not really spending a bunch of time at it, but just getting them into something more manageable. I'd guess 90% of the excess plant is removed in 10% of the total trimming and manicuring time. The rest I do after they're dry. If I use a screen I'm not picky. I have various pieces of screen laying around, but anything will do as long as it lets air flow all around the buds. Sometimes I put a very gentle breeze on them, but be careful if you do this since a big breeze will knock trichomes off the buds. Light isn't good for the goodies in the resin, so I try to keep mine as dark as possible. I little light occasionally isn't going to hurt anything. I try to keep them in a cooler part of the house. Also it's good if you can let them hear alternating classical music and Talking Heads during what normally would have been lights on time. I have not noticed any difference between hanging up side down and laying flat on a screen.

Do you guys plan on reusing that same screenfor your next grow or a new one each time.?
Same one each time, absolutely. No cutting of the screen is ever required. When I was using regular poultry netting occasionally I would have to cut a stalk in half or thirds, but never the screen. The openings on the chicken wire are slightly over an inch square (from memory), which i now realize is too small. The biggest part of the bud was usually above the screen and I could usually slide the bud out the top, but it had to squeeze through sometimes. That's not really a problem except for breaking off trichomes in that spot, which is really a problem. If you are doing things right, there should be no real buds to speak of below the screen. I am loving this new screen I'm using, which has 2x3" holes. I think it's perfect for many reasons, but additionally it will be no problem getting the buds out during harvest. When you scrog you have more buds and smaller buds, and hopefully larger yield. I am still looking forward to the time when I have trouble fitting the smaller portion of my scrog buds through a 2x3" opening. One suckie thing about poultry netting is there are hundreds of wires to cut and deal with. I got poked and scratched many times with the old screen but I don't remember ever getting scratched from my new one.

I hope that helps clear it up a little. If not be sure to let me know and I will do my best to further confuse you.

Perhaps it would help to confuse him if we were to run away more. (Monty Python's Holy Grail.)

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Originally Posted by cmasfca

When do you switch to flowering?

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There is no one set time, as many varieties grow differently. On most of my stuff I put my plants into the flowering section when they will fill in most of the screen, like 70-80% of it. Then I give them about 2 weeks to fill in the screen, as I'm positioning them and occasionally tying them into place. Then I mostly leave them alone except for positioning or removing leaves. This is true scrog. Growing in the same res for the whole grow is a mock scrog, or AGWAS; a grow with a screen.

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Originally Posted by MVP

Just let me know what you are after and I will post it up for all to see... :smokin:

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Social Security
Date of birth
Full name
Email address(s)
Bank account(s)
Safety deposit box number(s)
Credit card number(s)
Credit card expiration date(s)
3 or 4 digit code on the back of the credit card(s)
Telephone number (work and home)
Home address
Address listed with credit card(s)
Mothers maiden name
City where born
Name of favorite pet
Favorite food
All screen names and passwords, and what they're for

That should about do it. Go ahead and add anything you think might be helpful.

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Originally Posted by MVP

Well CM, looks like the D screen in D-SCROG is gonna stand for "dumped", as in I ditched the upper screen last night as I was tired of fighting it to maintain the garden.

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I had a feeling...

Sorry for that wasted effort, but kudos to you for having the balls to try something different. Experimenting is an excellent way to learn.

LOL.....I said something along the same line to cm about cutting the screen and got only....silence.....:D so I started to wonder whether my assumption might be.....well....WRONG!! ;)

And....it was.....:cool:

MVP....the breakdown of your nutes etc....how much CalMag, bloom nutes, etc....you know.... MR CLIPBOARD!! :D

Correct me if I am wrong....but I don't see a single def or sign of lockout.....I want to knw your ratios. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

I had a feeling...

Sorry for that wasted effort, but kudos to you for having the balls to try something different. Experimenting is an excellent way to learn.

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Yeah, your gut was on target. Since it took me around an hour or less, I feel it was worth it to see if it was a good idea. I'm sure glad I built it and found out I didn't need it, rather than not building it and finding out the hard way that it was necessary for the grow.

No problem Hound, I'll grab Mr C when the girls wake up around 7pm and post up the details tonight.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Because as far as I'm concerned you guys are pretty much doing "supercropping" and if not that....then close to it.

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I don't know much about supercropping, but I guess what I thought I knew is wrong. Isn't that when you intentionally damage your plants? I thought you gently crush stems with hopes that they will build back up better, faster, stronger. I have not thoroughly studied this, but so far it seems like a bunch of nonsense.

The last thing I want to do is damage my plants. I hardly ever remove a leaf, and the second to last resort (which is rare as well) is to damage the stem of the leaf, just enough to permanently get it growing in a more desirable direction. Are you trying to tell me that you do not move a fan leaf if it is shading the light from a nug of value? What if you physically did not have any place to put that leaf due to extremely dense jungle conditions? Would you remove it or let it shade Cindy07, your 6th favorite bud of the grow?

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

I personally think... that every single time you do something to the plants, retie them, push things around, pick off a few fan leaves, change a growth direction, pinch off a branch, snip off a "quick nug" for trying .....ANYTHING.... you are making the plant stop what it is doing....... growing......and concentrate on fixing whatever problem has just come up and it doesn't really go back to full on growing until said problem is taken care.

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I agree 100%. That's why I've always said that I absolutely hate removing anything, and it is absolutely a last choice. It's also rare for me. This last grow of mine it became a little less rare due to me being a first timer at LST, and doing a whole bunch of things wrong, from starting with fucked up clones to making way too many bud sites.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

I was actually going to mention it on your thread opie.....you have a million budsites but they are all small. I think (just guessing) you are going to have an extended bloom time but if you keep training from here on out to a MINIMUM you will eventually get some good yield to your buds. If you keep "fixing them" again and again.....well I do think it will affect yield as well eventually but......DISCLAIMER THREE.....it's just my opinion.

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Where do you keep getting the impression I like fixing them again and again? I've said several times (somewhere) that I have been done fixing for quite awhile now. The only thing I'm doing to them until harvest is tucking an occasional leaf so it doesn't shade a bud. The leaf is still there, it's just in a different position. I feared that I was writing "I fucked up this grow on several levels and I am doing things different next time", too many times, but maybe I need to say it more.

Here's how the minimal stress life of a MJ plant in my system is supposed to exist through harvest:

or

How do you stress me, let me count the ways:

Other than getting 99.7% of her body hacked off and taken away from her, she starts out fairly stress free. The first possible stress is if any mold starts appearing in the aero cloner. That doesn't really happen much, and if it does it's usually where any foliage touches a part of the cloner that stays wet. This is usually toward the end of her stay in the cloner and is semi-rare. An antifungal could help, but usually I don't need one. This happens whether you scrog or not.

The next stress is when she starts getting hardened. I leave the dome lid up 1/4" or so, just until she starts to look unhappy. I keep doing off and on, each time making the opening larger. Eventually she will be fine without a dome and it's time to plant. You can also harden after planting, but that's more difficult IMHO, and also more dangerous. You just put a baggie, or any clear plastic... thing, over her and do the same as with the lid. This happens whether you scrog or not.

The next stress is when I top or LST, but normally for me it's topping. This happens for many people whether they scrog or not.

The next stress is when I don't check in on them and they have grown into the light, and got couple crispy leaves. This happens for many people whether they scrog or not.

The next stress is when I take them out of the veg section and put them into the flower section. This happens for many people whether they scrog or not, but some effects of this stress can be softened a little, through various methods. I don't worry about it much, but I usually taper off the veg nutes instead of switching all at once.

The next stress shares stress time with the previous one. This is one of the few stresses that is more likely during scrogging, but it happens when the plant is in the veg state, even though it's in the bud chamber. I have not noticed this stressing the plants that I've grown, much if any, but I'm sure it is a possible stress. When I lower the screen onto the plants things can get a little tricky. It would probably be best if I had two people for this but normally I don't. You just have to go ahead and let the plants bend out of the way of the screen. Rarely, maybe every other time, I will snap one in two. Believe it or not this can easily be fixed with a simple piece of masking tape. Just tape em back together as close to their original positions as possible. More often, maybe once each time I'll bend one sharply, which of course is not a problem except for yes, it is a stress. Again, this happens in veg and it's kinda rare. Also, this happens for many people whether they scrog or not.

The main stress that happens in a scrog grow is when you remove the branches and any shoots or potential popcorn buds below the canopy. This certainly must be stressful, but I have never really seen it bother my plants. They just kinda say, "Hey stop it. That tickles", then get on with the usual burst of flowering energy. This happens for some people whether they scrog or not.

As far as I can see, and correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure someone will, this next stress is the only one that's inherent to the scrog method. I speak of the little stresses here and there that happen usually in the first two weeks of flowering only. If you do things right, nothing will be cut off. You just position stalks and stems where you want them to be. No bending, no cutting, and hopefully no damage. Just positioning. Much the same as if a branch grew up against the side of a building and hit a window sill or something. It just kinda gets pushed in a direction it wasn't planning on going and says, "Immovable object. Go around". If you stay on it and once a day or so just make sure theyâ??re staying under the screen, itâ??s not much of a stress, but I'm sure it could be considered one. And again this shouldnâ??t be done after 2 weeks of flowering. You want to basically leave them alone after that, except for occasionally moving a leaf thatâ??s shading a good bud. In my opinion you should be doing that no matter what.

Of course there is other stress, such as changes in PPM or diet, but you know, I aint going to list them all. Feel free to add to the list if you so desire.

Nope, sorry, I'm just not buying it. Scrogging is nearly as stress free as any other method in which you top a couple times. But hey, that's just me, experimenting and deciding and deciding what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

MVP, Sorry for the take over.

You know.....I just typed up a long reply that got swallowed as many things do around here these days so I give up with explanations...

Opie....I believe that the more you "train" or prune or whatever folks do to the plants the more you extend bloom time. Screw with them too much or too often and you'll mess up the yield as well. I'll stand by that without a doubt.

I like MVP's grow because his plants seem to be going and growing great guns with no sign of losing any yield or slowing down and they all look happy and healthy as hell And I'd like to know how he does it.

Also sorry if I sound super crabby but I'm really mad at this board today....so please take my posts with a grain of salt. It's swallowed at least three HUGE posts of mine so I get to the point where I just grunt everything out in three word sentences.

I'm not saying anything against you Opie....your stuff looks great. All I'm saying is that your stuff looks like about one week younger than it is.....you were mentioning the buds were smaller than you expected. I think that's from the training and I think if you add a week or two to your bloom time you'll get the yield you are looking for.

You DID mention you had stopped training them awhile back so I personally think that your plants will pick up from there and start where they left off. I'm guessing that if you trained them for two weeks you probably can add that time whatever reg bloom time you are looking at. That's what I'm trying to find out so that's why I'm asking everybody about it.

I'm also not saying don't train or stress or anything which would be impossible actually.....we all have things we have to do when growing. I just feel......VERY STRONGLY......that the more adjusting you do the more time it adds and I know that I...ME have overcropped my plants and not only did they take much longer to finish but it cut my yield about in half.

Hello again, nice to see a lively discussion on growing going on here. Hound, sorry to hear the f'ing board swallowed many of your words. Opie, no take over apologies necessary....

I am in the middle of flushing BOTH the MK clones that I am flowering as well as the Dominas. I found Mr C and he has a lot to report, but it will be in an hour or two as I have my hands full with the little green ones right now.....

MVP :jointsmile:

MVP....how are the leaves looking.....any signs of defs/lockouts etc?

opie, that made me nearly wet myself, im cryin over here:S2:

id agree with WH too.. i hate taking anything off, and laugh at me, go ahead, but i name every girl in there, lol. freak out at a little leaf curl, yellow tip. i know where every bud in that room is... thats why i've been knocking the SCROG around in my head, scared ill hurt one:(

opie, you are the funny one tonight...lol, love the monty quote

No, none so far... just a bunch of brown crumbly fan leaves under the canopy.

So.... the long awaited Mr C now has his report: Mr Clipboard says... we have not changed nutes until now, which is a flush (tonight) followed by fresh nutes tomorrow.

I have checked the girls every couple of days from 1/20 (last update on 1/24... see above in thread) and the PH and PPM floated around a bit as shown by Mr C below:

1/23 @ 7pm
BD1 = 1270 PPM, 5.1 PH. Added 1/3 gal RO water and UP, final numbers are 1206 PPM, 6.0 PH, 3.3 gal total in res
BD2 = 1258 PPM, 5.7 PH. Added 1/3 gal RO water and EJ Micro, final numbers are 1111 PPM, 5.7 PH, 3.0 gal total in res

1/26 @ 10pm
BD1 = 1332 PPM, 5.6 PH. Added 3/4 gal RO water and UP, final numbers are 1110 PPM, 6.2 PH, 3.5 gal total in res
BD2 = 1440 PPM, 6.0 PH. Added 1-3/4 gal RO water and Bloom+EJ Micro, final numbers are 1245 PPM, 6.1 PH, 3.75 gal total in res

1/30 @ 9pm
BD1 = 1215 PPM, 6.0 PH. Did nothing. Final numbers are 1215 PPM, 6.0 PH, 2.4 gal total in res
BD2 = 1395 PPM, 6.1 PH. Did nothing. Final numbers are 1395 PPM, 6.1 PH, 2.2 gal total in res

At this point I have not been too gentle with them. I have removed a half dozen leaves from the under canopy per night for 3-4 days, along with the shoots below that will not reach the canopy. I have also removed 2-3 fan leaves a day from the canopy that were shading the bud sites.

That is the update, let me know your questions and comments...

Yes.....one question. Are you planning on staying with that ratio of CalMag and base nute? I've gone back and forth with this issue so much in my grows ....just want to know and follow whatever your ratios on that are going to be. The dominas are very indica dominant right? I seem to have much less troubles with my indica dominant varieties......sigh.....

Anyway please let me know what the plan is with your ratios. Thanks. ;)

So far as I know Black Domina is an Indica strain. Not dominant, but Indica. That is what I have heard and how they are responding. I plan to treat them as such through flowering, so I will be increasing the Bloom, Micro, Sweet, etc but not the CalMag. I'll post the 'secret formula' once I figure it out... :D

WH,

Sorry about the bummerish conditions as of recent. I absolutely hate it when my long posts just go away to fucked post land. Perhaps you should consider your clipboard more. Seems I have no, or at least much less problems on other sites, so when I'm on this site my clipboard and and word processor get a work out. Often, especially if I think it might be a long post, I compose in a different app. and paste it in the reply box. That way I still have it if it goes away. An even faster method is to compose in the reply box and hit control-A, then control-C just before clicking the reply button. (The cursor, or mouse pointer must be in the reply box when you do this.) That way, unless your computer crashes, you'll still have it when cancom fucks you. Although, pretty soon they'll probably figure out a way to make your computer crash at the same time.

Sigh... I sure wish I could get you to understand the little amount of extra stress a scrog creates when done properly. Other than trimming the popcorn buds that most people would trim anyway, and the excess foliage under the canopy that's not receiving light anyway, there's not really much additional stress as opposed to other "normal" grow methods. The aforementioned pruning should only be done once, during veg. Shouldn't really slow down flowering at all. Long story short, the seed sellers say that AK-47 finishes in 45-50 days of flowering. My scrogged AK-47 finishes in 48-52 hours of flowering. Not a big sacrifice to get a larger yield IMO, and that might not even be caused by scrog stress. Maybe something else is causing the 2 day delay, or maybe the seed sellers are referring to "finished" as 8% amber rather than the 10% that I usually go for. DAMN IT. OK, you're right! Scrogging is absolutely ridiculous and a complete yield buster in bad way.

SnS,

Thanks. It must be the couple extra meds due to the 3-day-long headache.

Oh no....if I somehow gave you that impression....thats scrog was bad...then I apologize because thats not what I mean to say at all. I'm just trying to find out IF it does take longer, if the yield is that much better, and whether.....IF both are true.....how much longer and how much better yield?

Opie.....here's what I'm really trying to say.....is it worth me getting off my butt and trying it???? :D

Do the math yourself WH!

Opie said that AK-47 takes 45-50 days of flowering. His grow finished in 48-52 hours. What is better? :D

Just kidding Opie ;)

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Originally Posted by cmasfca

Do the math yourself WH!

Opie said that AK-47 takes 45-50 days of flowering. His grow finished in 48-52 hours. What is better? :D

Just kidding Opie ;)

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That IS fast......I need to get on this train ASAP!. I suppose an extended bloom period could throw an extra 40 minutes or something onto your schedule....wonder if that extra 40 mins would be worth the work and up the yield .....:cool:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

That IS fast......I need to get on this train ASAP!. I suppose an extended bloom period could throw an extra 40 minutes or something onto your schedule....wonder if that extra 40 mins would be worth the work and up the yield .....:cool:

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:S2:

dudes, just... yeah. Pretty weird that someone who's stoned would make a typo. There was this one time, in band camp, when I had to go an extra 15 seconds before harvesting.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Opie.....here's what I'm really trying to say.....is it worth me getting off my butt and trying it???? :D

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Oh, well then forget all that other stuff I said. Here's what I was really trying to say...YES.

Well, actually I meant to say YES.

Uh, well actually, now that I've had a chance to think about it, YES.

fuckin opie, your a trip man, guess you have me convinced too....lol....gonna have to get some chicken wire huh?.... damn MVP, you hydro guys have to deal with alot more shit...lol...i understood half of your chart....i didnt add anything to the fox farm soil until i started feeding them the other day, PH is still around 6.7...you guys have any idea if there is anything organic to level PH with? havent had the problem, but if i do.......

I'm speechless.....:eek:

The beauty.....the green forest of buds.....

Opie that brings tears to my eyes. :) :thumbsup:

Thought I would post a pic of Mr. Clipboard as he oversees the harem. He was bugging me that he wanted a photo opp....

Your plants look good.

I thought Mr Clipboard was a computer program.