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I agree F L E S H, well said bro
Torog, you said "The good thing about Christianity,is that none are forced to be Christians,it's purely voluntary. Whereas with Islam,many are forced to convert or be killed".. The truth is that Christianity has been using the "convert or be killed" method for centuries... Only recently has it stopped, not its "convert or be called evil"
That thar's sum on-esty if I ever dun gawn and seen it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
Translation: A+
Sorry Torog, I'm gonna have to agree with these guys. You are always for freedom, but it seems to be selected freedom for those people you approve of, not true freedom. This is supposed to be a free country established for the people, not against them, but we are becoming less free each day. If you are truely for freedom then you wouldn't divide and seperate people the way you do. Do you think the Lord would want you to hate your fellow man? I try not to hate people, but it is hard at times Torog, I know. It is easier to see if you put aside your views for a minute and try to look at it from other people's perspectives. People just want to enjoy their lives and live in happiness. What is so wrong with that? Does it make you mad that others unlike you or maybe more like you than you think, want to be happy and enjoy their lives also? I'm sure you'd be suprised, but there are a lot of homosexuals who are republican and did vote for Bush! Hell, I even know gay NRA members. Just as shocking as finding such a right-wing conservative on a pro-cannabis website! Our founding fathers were extremely intelligent men. Their goal was to create a country with the least restrictive government, which would allow as much personal freedom as possible, and would not be run by the religion. I am a fellow Christian Torog, I'm just wishing you'd be a bit more openminded in your views.
Howdy sawleaf,Quote:
Originally Posted by sawleaf
Well daggumit..you're probably right..I'm being a bit heavy-handed,and like ya say,folks just want to be happy in their lives..who am I to judge what's ok or not ? Like i said earlier to Nullific or XTC,I can't recall which-there are alot of folks in this area where I'm at,mostly the redneck cowboys,that think it's a grand sport..to beat up any gays they come across,while they are out drinking on Saturday night..you think I'm bad..whew ! They also like to beat up long-hairs like me..well..I'm a pretty big guy-so they usually just leave me alone.
My biggest problem,is giving or granting or rewarding,sexual deviancy with rights..I don't believe that is right-especially if it puts children at risk. I don't believe that parental authority,should be usurped in order to promote the acceptance of a sexually deviant lifestyle. I believe that school should be about learning -not exploring one's sexuality-before one is even mature enough,emotionally or physically,to be making those kind of decisions. I don't believe that kindergardners,should be encouraged to experiment with masturbation or oral sex,as has been done by some schools in California and probably Massachusetts.
Yup..I know about Log Cabin Republicans, but I didn't know about gays in the NRA ! Heck..I guess huntin and shootin,are fun for everyone..even gay fellers. I'll try and be more open-minded,but it ain't easy,given that I was raised to believe that there are very few excuses for bad behaviour and bad choices..nor excuses for not gittin something done-and done right the first time.
My old man,raised my brother and I,real strict..and his old man was even stricter,there was no room for amoral relativism,no excuse for not learning from our mistakes,and we got beat with a belt and knocked up side the head..and my dad is 6'5'' tall and pure muscle and meaness. We were forged into men-with hard work and hard discipline. These days,younguns are lazy,disrespectful to their parents and elders,use every excuse under the Sun,to git out of work or living up to their responsibilities,and have no sense of humbleness or gratefulness,or how to honor others. I blame modern liberalism for that and it seems like pushing acceptance of a sexually deviant life-style,is just another way to avoid the responsibility of gittin married and having a family..oops-there I go again..with my old-fashioned values..sorry for that.
Have a good one...Torog
I hope you know Torog, that I didn't post a personal attack. I know your a decent guy and do mean well. A lot of people on this site are decent, it's just that we have such conflicting views. A lot of us refuse to see or accept other people's opinions as well. I am not for homosexuality at all, but I am not against it either. My view is that, if you want to persue happiness in your life and with your lifestyle, then you should be free to do so, as long as you are not interfering with other peoples lives. That's why it makes me so upset when people try to take away my guns or when the government says I'm a criminal for smoking cannabis. I am not hurting anyone, yet there are people out there who would disarm me or arrest me without hesitation. Why???
"These days,younguns are lazy,disrespectful to their parents and elders,use every excuse under the Sun,to git out of work or living up to their responsibilities,and have no sense of humbleness or gratefulness,or how to honor others." You obviously dont know many 'younguns'.. The people you are describing are the minority among 'younguns', not the majority
I do not care about the title marriage but gays should have equal rights.
In regards to "your" own ingnorant religious beliefs well we will all be judged.
It is up to god not the people who call thenselves chirstians. Such Hypocrites.
Gays have to learn to deal with all the ignorance that society shows.
Many hide until they realize that it is nobodys business.
Gay people do not choose to be gay!
Move on
You think you're so original typing things like that? I'm a historian, so I read a lot of old stuff. I was once reading a book about John Stow, who wrote a survey of London during his life, in the 16th century, you know, the age of Elizabeth I, shakespeare, and all that crap. He must have written that sentence about a million times. In fact, it's the theme of his book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
I also translate some Ancient Greek, and I don't remember the author off the top of my head, might be either Plato or Herodotus, but again they said the same thing as you, only 2,500 years ago....
If all these people were right, then today's world would be in total chaos, death and destruction would reign supreme and there would be orgies at every street corner.
Fact is, o wise, all-knowing one, homosexuality is not a liberal thing, it has existed since the dawn of humanity. Who knows, maybe some of your own heroes were closet homosexuals.
In any case, isn't it better to let people live the way they want, instead of forcing a gay man to marry a woman and have kids and be miserable for the rest of his life, and make his family miserable too? No! screw happiness and liberty! because the Bible says so....
Howdy FLESH,Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
I have had an epiphany..a revelation,if you wll..after watching the tv show,"Wife Swap",the other night..I saw just how ugly and horrible,that I've been towards gay folks..and I'm putting a screeching halt to that kind of ugly-and re-evaluating my whole position towards gays.
The gay gals that were on this show, and the one who traded places with the Christian woman,for two weeks,finally made me understand just how ugly and cruel,that I have been towards gay folks..she really touched my heart.
I now realize..that everyone deserves happiness and to be able to choose whom they wish to be with,I'm no longer gonna claim that I know what's best for anyone..because it's not up to me to do that,and I should just leave it to God's Hands. If I could,I think I would go and delete every ugly thing I've said in this thread and every other,here and at MariHemp.
God works in mysterious ways..it took a plea from the heart of a lesbian gal,to make me finally understand just how cruel that I've been. I apologize to any gay folks here that have read my cruel words..and have been deeply hurt by them. Somehow,we gotta find a way to work things out-so that everyone can be happy and live their lives as they choose.
Have a good one...Torog
Hey Torog, I saw your post and responded to you in that thread, unfortunately I had written this before and couldn't change it anymore. Sometimes you amaze me, man! :D
I don't wanna make it seem like "I was right the entire time and now you finally get it", but I'm glad you've changed your mind. It's not your fault that you thought this way, it's really hard to incorporate religion with the entire world, being we live in a world full of sin. You can't blame yourself, if you feel a certain way, then it doesn't mean your a bad person, it just means you think a different way. (I'm having a hard time saying this, since I'm trying not to seem like an ass, and express myself correctly). But if you feel that you have the correct stance on this argument, then I'm happy for you, as long as you know how you feel and why you do, you should never feel alienated from others because of your beliefs :) . Best of luck to you, Torog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
--P.P.
:) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Torog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
This has to be a first on any board I have ever read, or seen in rl.
You broke the mold :D :D :D
I'm not gonna lie..I am a total homophobe. I get goosbumps every time I am near a queer. But think about this, if you are so against gay marriage you are no different then others who are so against pot. I would rather not see gay marriages and stuff, but I am not a radical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
dude, you make me feel like im on a bad cocaine trip.
no agenda, people are born gay or not gay.
conservatives called SPONGE BOB SQUARE PANTS secret gay marketing
gays divorce rate is 2 percent, straits it is 44 percent.
when was the last time a gay has jumped on you a forcefully sucked your cock torog, everyone. I am making a the middle of the line thread titled, I HATE TOROG
o, and gays have exactly the same amount of STDs as straigts. They want people to accept them, not make them gay. You want gays to be strait, i hate you
thought you were moving to canada??good bye!!go!
i don't get it... what difference does it make either way. they aint displaying shit in front of you. they don't choose to be that way. you're a close-minded freak.
I haven't read the past 8 pages here. I'm just stopping in to give my readymade response to an all-too-common issue.
1. Nobody chooses to be gay. They live that way, it happens. Seriously, nobody would CHOOSE to live in a way that causes them to be hated and oppressed every day of their lives. That's like choosing to tie bricks to your penis when you wake up every morning.
2. There's nothing wrong with being gay. Because it happens to people naturally and uncontrollably, it is natural. The bible is not the be-all, end-all on these issues. Just because it doesn't produce offspring doesn't mean it's not natural. It's because it occurs naturally that it's natural.
3. Just because gays choose not to hide their lifestyles under a shroud of shame doesn't mean they're trying to recruit or corrupt others. Homosexuality is not a disease, nor is it a corruption. It is a way of life.
4. I read Torog's epiphany post--I'm floored. Torog, I may not agree with you on many issues, political or otherwise, but I'd still like to show you as an example to others. You have the capacity to CHANGE YOUR MIND, to re-evaluate what you believe is truth, and to look at things from a new perspective. Not a lot of people are capable of this. Good on you, sir.
Howdy DJ,
You said:4. "I read Torog's epiphany post--I'm floored. Torog, I may not agree with you on many issues, political or otherwise, but I'd still like to show you as an example to others. You have the capacity to CHANGE YOUR MIND, to re-evaluate what you believe is truth, and to look at things from a new perspective. Not a lot of people are capable of this. Good on you, sir."
I do believe,that gays should be treated with respect and common courtesy,just like everyone else and that there's a place for them in society,they shouldn't have to live in shame or sacrifice their dignity as human beings. I think this is an issue,to be decided between the adults,and not bring the children into the fray..let them learn their abc's and 123's..and just let them be children..their parents should decide when they want their children to learn about sex and moral issues.
Now then--for another revelation..my dealer,is a lesbian..with a bisexual girlfriend. I shocked my girlfriend yesterday,when the subject came up..I told her,that I was not going to critisize them,for their lifestyle and sexual orientation. I am trying to change my attitude towards gay folks and realize,that they simply want what everyone else wants,freedom,dignity,choice and equality. I'm not trying to be politically-correct..I just think that it's high time for me to be more compassionate and less hateful,and to work out some kind of compromise.
Have a good one...
Torog, Man. I'm high, but I'm absolutely floored. I honestly wish I knew you in person so we could smoke sometime. I think there's a ton I could learn from you. I still think some of your opinions are ignorant, and I know you still think some of mine are kind of looney, but I have a lot of respect for you right now. I'm having some sort of an epiphany I suppose that I don't actually have to dislike people who think things or do things that I feel are wrong. -laughs- Odd. Anyway, thanks for that. It's your turn to have a good one. ^.^
Howdy Encatuse,Quote:
Originally Posted by Encatuse
Thanx for your kind words..I tell you what-sometimes when I see my opinons on the puter screen..I think they are ignorant too..lol.
Yup..just because we have different opinions and beliefs,there ain't no call for hating each other..my liberal,Jewish girlfriend,has taught me how to agree to disagree,without hate or malice,she's taught me more about compassion and tolerance,these last 9 years,than I would have ever learned on my own. When my daughter and I,found ourselves on the street-it was her Jewish family,that took us in and fed us and kept us warm,when there were no Christians around to help. I no longer blame Jews for the crucifixion of Christ,I blame the Romans,and solidly support the democracy of Israel..and I also support a peaceful,Palestinian State.
I have alot of work to do still,in the area of compassion and tolerance..but I'd like to believe,that this here old dog..can learn some new things.
Have a good one...
Torog, just when I thought I had you figured, you go and surprise me like this again lol :)
I'm Italian!! Now you're offeding me!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by torog
Just a joke :D
You do realize Jesus says not to blame anyone, it was paart of his divine plan... Why do you have to blame someone?
Of all the months I've been here reading your posts, this is the only paragraph you ever wrote that isn't rife with labels, insults, stereotypes, paranoia, government mind-control. Yay!Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
Howdy FLESH,Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
Dang..does that mean that there's hope for me yet ?
Have a good one !
no offence to any americans but honestly you should all just stop watching yours news and wait till a canadian news channel like cbc or ctv filters it because it seems like they try to keep you afraid of change so that your country can stay in a confused state power to most of the people who posted on this subject and sifted through the bullshit i support gay marriage. a friend of mine and her better part just got married and its like she said"we should have the right to be as misserable as straights" lol
i totally agree with you. always drama
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuD MaN
..... The nazis were killing people dude...were not killing anyone, were just trying to stop homosexuality and its the only thing we can really do about it..but that wont work cause people will still be gay, but I think its totally wrong and I agree with das 100%
Homophobics not killing anyone? My ass you're not killing anyone. Matthew Shephard would tell you differently. Homosexuality is natural, but even if it wasn't, why do you use "natural" as if it was relevant? Not many things your typical north american human being does are "natural". Is consuming tons of fast food natural? Is sticking more and more toxins into the atmosphere and ocean natural? If any Right wing Christian asshole told me going to the same boring building every Sunday and killing each other in the name of a 2000 year old Carpenter's son is "natural" I'll laugh in his face.Quote:
were not killing anyone
Also, in Canada they are trying to have a "referendum" on gay marriage. How stupid is that? A majority deciding the fate of a minority. If they had had a referendum on slavery in America in the 1800s how do you think it would have turned out?
Sorry for ranting so long, I tend to do that while baked.
dudes i totally agree with head hemp jack on this subject, fags are digusting... plain and simple.
Who gives a shit actually. This is just uncle sam trying to stick his nose where it doesnt belong. The government does not have the power to tell you who you can or cant love. If youre not gay then marry the opposite sex, if youre gay then marry whoever makes you happy. There are some things in this world that you cannot govern and love is one of them, gay or straight. If you dont like it dont look at it.
I think there is alot more fucked up shit on this earth happening than gay marriage. Watch the news or read the paper, im sure youll find at least 1 thing that affects you more than some dude marrying another dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydro420
Cheers Hydro I think you're disgusting too. :mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
HOLY FUCK!!!
Being a gay person in Religious America, i have to agree the institute of marriage should be between a man and a woman, but, we were given an option, to marry without it being called marriage, and that was denied, which is a sign of selfishness. How many times have each one of you had intimate relations, solely, for the reason of conceiving? That is what sex was meant for. United WE Stand, but, remember, Divided We Fall. The main reason to ban gay marriage is to keep moral stability and family values. Being family and being married are two different things. Freedom of religion means Freedom from religion. Now, i'm going to jack off to some gay porn and smoke some bud.
i agree with you on the first part,the last is just gross!
I'll just say nobodys here to please anyone what's disgusting is not marriage for the norm is the sex. From what i see gay porn is perfectly legal. I'd say that's one the straight guy lost. Gay Marriage is like a "who gives a shit issue" for me.
too bad it isnt gonna happen for a LONG time.long.
I dont understand why Christians are so against gay marriage, after all there are many parts of the bible that talk about men taking each other.
S'weird - be careful placing your beliefs in that particular book, cuz bits of it can be interpreted in different, and mostly contradictory ways
wasted boring brains bother to give a fuck about it.
woops i devolve.
haha.
we all love to hate some something we find weird. like i hate speeding psychopaths and kids walking dogs twice their size. i trained my brain to not waste time thinking about it so i had longer to go
dooooo-do-dooooooooo
haha homer simpson sings frank zappa.
what were we talking about?