WHY ARE WE AT WAR?!

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Originally Posted by Ignatius

I've been misrepresented as a liberal on this board, but I'm in 100% agreement with you "letsburn06".

Why the fuck should you and others be out there risking your lives when the real enemy is at home in your fucking government.

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The real enemy.....under term limits... so fucking stupid... can you walk and chew gum?


why dont you worry about your FUCKING goverment being over ran by Muslims.

you worry about this MMMMmmmmK

Londonistan (book)
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Londonistan: How Britain is creating a terror state withinLondonistan: How Britain is creating a terror state within (ISBN 1-59403-144-4) is a book by journalist Melanie Phillips on the topic of the proliferation of Islamism in the United Kingdom over the past twenty years. The book is published in London by Encounter books.


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Overview
The book encompasses a critique of multiculturalism, weak policing, cultural relativism, and what she terms a 'victim culture'. She argues that these forces combined to create an ideal breeding ground for Islamic terrorists. She points to the centrality of London based individuals and groups to many terror plots around the world, which she argues were enabled by a semi-formal "covenant of security" between Islamists and the British authorities. Zacharias Moussaoui and shoebomber Richard Reid are two of many such examples she points to in the book.

According to Steven Emerson the book: "... exposes the scandalous appeasement of militant Islam by British officials, the media, even the Church of England, capturing in extraordinary detail how British society and institutions have either ignored or actively fostered the growth of extremist groups on British soil".



Tell you MOM and SIS to go get fitted for Berkas... they will need them

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Originally Posted by letsburn06

Aight ima settle this for u all right now in a well easy sort of way....I am a soldier in the united states army us being over there is bullshit becuase right now we r only there to keep the peace but hey if them fuckin towelheads wanna kill each other we should jsut let em n it not be our problem and when the war first started it was all for the oil trust me cuz i spent 12 months of my life guarding a damn oil field...and now the only excuse were there ic to help them build back up n keep the peace..bullshit let em kill each other.And by the way our president is a piece of crap the war is all for him had nothing to do with terrorism..that was jsut his excuse to go to war.

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Thank you for your service Sir.......

Bush is a piece of crap

We needed to gaurd the oil fields remember the Kuwail well fires?

Saddam was a big peice of crap

Yes let them kill each other...Radical -vs- non radical they need a reformation

IMO we need Iraq... for positioning, for the real battle about to begin.

Iran..............

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Originally Posted by Bong30

why dont you worry about your FUCKING goverment being over ran by Muslims.

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The same reason I don't worry about radioactive attack squirells. Because I'm not insane. But thanks for asking.

yes iran is also about oil but i joined the army to serve my country n tis worth it i just dont agree on this war right now...sorry if i said some stupid shit but i just dont get this war

Bong imo your madness knows no bounds.
War for peace is BULLSHIT !

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Originally Posted by letsburn06

yes iran is also about oil but i joined the army to serve my country n tis worth it i just dont agree on this war right now...sorry if i said some stupid shit but i just dont get this war

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...you got the right idea...troop...but...it's the people "sitting on the fence" that will decide this debate.

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Bong imo your madness knows no bounds.
War for peace is BULLSHIT !

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Ill show three instances where war made Peace....

Japan.....

American Civil War.....

Germany......


1. War doesnt make peace, when?

A. Must fight war with one arm Tied behind our Back

B. Use military as police force

C. Left leaning media, weakens the resolve to win

D. all the above

Peace has to be created, in order to be maintained. It will never be achieved by passivity and quietism.

~Dorothy Thompson


Let him who desires peace prepare for war.

~Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

I don't agree with this Iraq war at all, but that's for a multitude of sensible reasons regarding this particular conflict. I think it's rediculous when peple say war can never solve anything. The American war with Japan resulted in the liberation of huge portions of China and indonesia. Allied forces should have declared war on Adolf Hitler's forces back in 1936 to stop his insane nationalist-driven onslaught of "inferior races/nations".
On the other hand you have wars like the one in Iraq where we invaded a nation that didn't pose 1/10th the threat as others like Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, certain factions in Pakistan, and perhapse Syria (I'm sure there's more that could be added to the list). Why I disagree with the Iraqi conflict is because:

1. It's diverted massive amounts of military resources from being able to defend against the real threats.

2. The whole "planting the seeds of democracy" around Iran is crap. The Bush administration found itself without an excuse for the Iraq war and so changed its tune that they were trying to surround Iran with democratic institutions which will somehow weaken them:rolleyes: . If that was the real intention, it would have been stated right at the beginning of the war. If anything it would have done Iran a larger disservice to keep the Saddam regime in tact, and the nation stable and held together, since Saddam's government was extremely hostile toward's Iran and would have been one more enemy at their doorstep to have to watch out for. Now we have a nation with a government that can't control its own people or those who come in, a nation that's destabalised and too busy dealing with its own conflict to possibly pose a threat to Iran. Even though being democratic now is a threat in and of itself. :rolleyes:

3. The invasion of Iraq has only made the world more vulnerable to terrorism. When the United States invaded Afghanistan it was in direct response to an attack on their soil, and the Taliban itself has been more than enough to have to deal with. With the invasion of Iraq, of which was based on weapons of mass destruction and supposed links to Alqaeda, they've done a perfect job of helping muslim extremists confirm their propoganda to Iraqi youth that America is indeed launching a crusade on Islam and seeking to dismantle it. The CIA's own estimates showed 1 year after the Iraq invasion that Alqaeda recruitment rates had jumped by 18,000 new fighters, and that's just what they know of. This war based on its weak and constantly changing justification has pissed off the whole middle east and lead thousands of young men to take up arms where they wouldn't have before.

4. Iraq is essentially another Vietnam, and I don't know how America is supposed to get out of it. They can fight and fight for years to come, but it's going to be a (near) endless war of contrition. So long as there are pissed off young muslim men, either because of unjustifiable occupation or friends and family killed by American forces or just religious fanaticism, they'll just keep pouring into Iraq fighting US forces, slaughtering civilians, and destroying infrastructure. I can't stress it enough that Bush policy has lead to the creation or more terrorists than the destruction of such.

5. America has already invested over $300 billion on this needless war and put themselves into debt from which they can never recover (well, at least more so). I find it odd that hundreds of billions of dollars are readily available for pointless wars, but when it comes to a failing education and medical system they just can't seem to scrounge up the money. Oh wait, but if they spent that much time, money, and effort on their own people that would be socialism wouldn't it... we can't have any of that commie crap!

6. And lets not forget the death-toll, along with the even higher injury rate for which we can't even get a solid number. Thus far Bush's needless war has caused the deaths of about 3,000 American troups, and more are sure to come. Looks like he's successfully managed to get as many Americans killed as the September 11th attacks:thumbsup: . Not to mention that tonnes of troups are coming home with (often permanent) injuries, including limb amputations and the twice as prevelant brain injuries they'll have to deal with the rest of their lives. I'm sure their families appreciate that.
Then to make matters worse, you have literally hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed. The highest estimate right now is 655,000, the lowest being somewhere over 110,000. It's amazing how people can't understand why many muslims would hate America when US forces destroy hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. Alqaeda kills 3,000 Americans and it's horrible unjustified terrorism, but when America slaugters hundreds of thousands of middle-easterm civilians, except this time in the name of spreading their democracy, it's suddenly supposed to be all cool with them. It's just incredible how the public mind can be molded to abhor one act of slaughter, then support an even larger one because the premise has changed.


Overall I'm just sick of extremist views that either believe war can in no way, shape, or form justify a war.... or people who believe that every war for any reason whatsoever is "fighting to protect our freedom", and is justified because the public mind paints a vague picture of the enemy; that being that since terrorists come from the middle east, any war in the middle east is fighting the same terrorists.

Bong30 I know London better than you, I'm sure of that. I can tell you that the dumb book you quoted in your link is as far removed from the truth as you can possibly imagine. If you don't believe me, check it out for yourself. It's a free country and you are allowed to do that.

As to your fixed term argument..that's a load of bullshit too. Once Bush is gone you have another to take his place. It's not necessarily Bush I hate, just the whole edifice of your corrupt govt. There's no reason for the war in Iraq, nor for starting another one with Iran. Let these folks be, and make sure they understand that they do the same with us in return. We don't need to be in their country to do that. We hold all the cards, let's use them a little more wisely. I'm as against radical Islam as you are, and I'm not a liberal either.

You carry on beating your chest though Tarzan, it keeps me laughing anyway.