Burning flag bad

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

Oh please, there's art and then there's instigation under the guise of art. Don't pretend such things don't exist.

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Of course they exist!

Some cartoons depict muhammed wearing a bomb shaped turbin. The message is that Islam is a violent religion that advocates killing through suicide bombing. I don't believe that, and I seriously doubt the creators of those cartoons did, but fanatical elements set out to prove the satire true.

What's the answer: Stop offending people?

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

Art prompts call for flag-burning law change

KERRY O'BRIEN: The right to freely express an opinion has taken something of a savaging in recent days. Reaction to a Danish newspaper cartoon that mocked the Prophet Mohammed resulted in the burning of Danish embassies in Damascus and Beirut and widespread protests from London to Auckland. The backlash may not have reached Australian shores, but here, the right of a Melbourne artist to express an opinion - in his case, burning an Australian flag and mounting it as an exhibition piece - has landed him in trouble with the law. The flag, which was to have been on display on a billboard outside a Melbourne gallery, lasted just two days before a policeman, claiming to have acted on complaints, removed it. The artist, Azlan McLennan, says he wants it back. The police say they are considering whether to press charges. Legal experts say there is no case. But in Canberra, Federal Government backbencher Bronwyn Bishop has announced her intention to introduce a private members' bill outlawing the burning of the Australian flag. Heather Ewart reports.

CROWD CHANTS: Save the Australian flag!
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2006/s1563582.htm

Have a good one!:D

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Yeah well there is no way the Australian government would want to waste there time but than again who knows what johnny howard would do,If the americans had it illegal than australia would follow just like we did with Iraq - certainly not in my name.:mad:

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Originally Posted by Miss Green

Yeah well there is no way the Australian government would want to waste there time but than again who knows what johnny howard would do,If the americans had it illegal than australia would follow just like we did with Iraq - certainly not in my name.:mad:

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Amazing! I didn't see Howards name or the U.S. mentioned in that article but yet you have to point your finger in that direction.:rolleyes:

Oh well........have a good one!:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

(Please excuse the editing for format, not content)

Most of the hateful anti-Bush/America posts here are for the same reasons you posted above, imho.

Just WHAT, exactly, would constitute a legitimate reason for burning an American flag, in America? Liberal jealousy and bitterness over the Sore/Loserman2000 election? More delusional expectations dashed when the political platform of hate failed in 2002 and again in 2004? What are flag burners trying to "express," anti-war pacifism, socialism?

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Honestly iamapatient, I don't know what would consitute a legitimate reason. I personally couldn't concieve of a reason to burn the flag. I don't know, maybe something like the mother of a son who is drafted, and dies in an unjust war, burns the flag in protest and as an expression of her grief. I would have to hear the reason, and try to judge how strongly a person feels about the issue, before making my final decision. In any case, I'm sure 99% of the time I'd come to the conclusion that the burner needs a beating. Certainly being pissed off about losing an election, or the fact that an idiot is in the White House, don't qualify in my book though.

You're right that a lot of what is posted in this forum is done just to get a rise out of those who don't agree with our point of view. I'm no more innocent of doing that from time to time than you or anyone else here is. There is a huge difference between that and burning a flag for the same reason though.

Certain symbols are just sacred and shouldn't be desecrated. Doing so is just incredibly insensitive and in terribly poor taste. Take a Crucifix for example. I am not a Catholic or a Christian and do not beleive in God. I would, however, find the desecration of a Crucifix just as offensive as the burning of a flag. Yes, it is just a piece of wood or plastic just as a flag is just a piece of fabric. And, yes maybe it is a symbol used by those whose views I feel very strongly against. But it is also a symbol that many, many very good people hold dear. It is out of respect for those people that I feel the way I do.

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Originally Posted by Miss Green

Why on earth would you waste your time on even trying to get a legislation like that in,seriously at the end of the day its only a piece of material and there is people out there right now that are angry with the american government and what they have done or are doing right now - why can't they express themselves after all that is what having freedom is all about is having the free will to speak or in this case express it.:thumbsup: :stoned:

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You do all of that retarded color/size crap and then have the *nerve* to bitch about wasting time? I wont even read your posts like that anymore, you wasted my time and yours. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by graymatter

Of course they exist!

Some cartoons depict muhammed wearing a bomb shaped turbin. The message is that Islam is a violent religion that advocates killing through suicide bombing. I don't believe that, and I seriously doubt the creators of those cartoons did, but fanatical elements set out to prove the satire true.

What's the answer: Stop offending people?

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Yes, they do.

Could the cartoons not be examples of how rediculous it is to assume all muslims are terrorists and that the jihadists are trying to hijack islam?

No the answer is changing the laws to protect the flag then the protesters can find another way to piss on America.

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

Honestly iamapatient, I don't know what would consitute a legitimate reason. I personally couldn't concieve of a reason to burn the flag. I don't know, maybe something like the mother of a son who is drafted, and dies in an unjust war, burns the flag in protest and as an expression of her grief. I would have to hear the reason, and try to judge how strongly a person feels about the issue, before making my final decision. In any case, I'm sure 99% of the time I'd come to the conclusion that the burner needs a beating. Certainly being pissed off about losing an election, or the fact that an idiot is in the White House, don't qualify in my book though.

You're right that a lot of what is posted in this forum is done just to get a rise out of those who don't agree with our point of view. I'm no more innocent of doing that from time to time than you or anyone else here is. There is a huge difference between that and burning a flag for the same reason though.

Certain symbols are just sacred and shouldn't be desecrated. Doing so is just incredibly insensitive and in terribly poor taste. Take a Crucifix for example. I am not a Catholic or a Christian and do not beleive in God. I would, however, find the desecration of a Crucifix just as offensive as the burning of a flag. Yes, it is just a piece of wood or plastic just as a flag is just a piece of fabric. And, yes maybe it is a symbol used by those whose views I feel very strongly against. But it is also a symbol that many, many very good people hold dear. It is out of respect for those people that I feel the way I do.

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I cant think of a legitimate reason. The mothers of fallen soldiers have a right to grieve but burning a flag, symbolizing the destruction of America is not the way to mourn a fallen hero, who wasn't drafted and joined an all volunteer military.

There is no right to not be offended but the flag is another thing.

I'd add other religous objects from all religions too, not just the Cross and flag.

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Originally Posted by likemclever

No it is not just a piece of material. No more than the constitution and the bill of rights is just a piece of paper.

And yes you should have the right to burn it but when you do you should also be prepared to have your face punched in by those expressing themselves on your face.

I wish just once a gust of divine wind would wrap a burning flag around one of those idiots and disfigure them for life. They can explain to their grand children how they got their scars.

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I agree that it's more than stars and stripes in a particular pattern, that's why I think it should be protected and respected. My father fought in WWII to protect America, not destroy it. When I joined the US Army I swore to defend America not destroy it.

I cant think of a legitimate reason to burn the American flag, in America. Doing so symbolizes the destruction of America and I reject the mere concept.

Like this one?

That first picture is kinda hard for me to look at (it would be even harder if they were Americans) Itâ??s easier for me to blow them off considering their nationality.

However, that second picture is pretty fâ??n sweet :dance: (too bad it wasnâ??t a plastic flag :D .)

I don't believe that burning the flag is a protected form of speech. It is, at minimum, an act of vandalism and approaches the incitement of a riot. I'd like to think that both conservatives and liberals could see this the same way.

I'd like to see the punishment for this, in the extreme case, be loss of US citizenship. Let them take up residence in another country.

I believe that all members of the military, past and present, should be respected, and the flag represents their sacrifice and service. I do believe that citizens can disagree with military actions by military commanders and political leaders, and still respect the flag.

For that matter, we can disagree with military actions and political leaders and yet still very much respect the military and the leaders themselves, as well as the flag. Rational, reasonable people have that ability.

Unfortunately, I've seen little reasoning, respect nor rationality from the left. There are always exceptions but there's a reason democrats are considered weak on defense, they are. *shrug*