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to me weed can be spiritual and heres why...
because it will allow me to see things from a different angle that I cant see when I am sober. just like tripping but less intense
now when you first did acid did you do it for spiritual reasons??? I highly doubt it. but after doing it you realized reality can be a little more than you realized if looked at in a different frame of mind.
Dex, you are reading poeple's statements, and you are completely warping them into what you want them to say, so that you can in turn argue with them about it. You are also doing it in a mean and disrespectful fashion.
Grow up man.
I love to feeling the out of bodies the trippiness
"Dex, you are reading poeple's statements, and you are completely warping them into what you want them to say, so that you can in turn argue with them about it. You are also doing it in a mean and disrespectful fashion.
Grow up man."
If you don't have anything nice to say...
Legallyblind, I guess you're just pissed because I'm making you think?
You are wasting your time if you aren??t learning something ?? that is my philosophy. I think that getting high entails taking psychedelics for granted which is what I am opposed to.
When I say I a realist I mean that, while I can understand your point, the ??equanimity not to be disturbed or frustrated when someone contradicts [you]? doesn??t work in the real world. Theoretically, if we all smoked a lot of dope and felt as passive as you seem to then ??we??d all just get along.? That isn??t the case. If I chose to exercise my Zen here and just let everyone say what they wanted without raising relevant issues and pointing out inconsistencies, I would effectively be inhibiting others learning. My intention is to force everyone to think about their preconceptions.
well if you think you found drugs due to spiritual reason I think your full of crap. your friends prolly said "hey ya wanna trip??" and you said "whats that???" but then you saw it had spiritual value.
so tell me, what kind of spiritual value do you get from it exactly??
do you find god????
also do you think other people will say get a tab of lsd at church???
shit no
the true nature of the experience has been suppressed for the most part
they made it look like dirty hippies just doing drugs and looking at the stars and saying "wow man the sky is falling"
what?
That's exactly what I am trying to do with you, watch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextromethorphan
What about helping, rather than forcing? That is the essential wisdom taught by the Tao teh Ching, that the problem with the mind is that we get in our own way and try to force things into accord with our preconceptions of how they should be. Rather than getting in someone's face, it's possible to compassionately guide them in the right direction. Perhaps difficult at first, but with every person there IS a way if you can gain their trust. People naturally have inclinations to be spiritual and to learn about themselves, but they inhibit themselves out of fear. They need to "get out of their own way." If you stand in their way also, it just makes it doubly hard, and confusing and difficult, for them to learn: when they feel irreconcilable tensions between different ways of thinking. You DO need to raise issues that will help them to learn, but this is a matter of helping them to get out of their own way, not trying to trip them up to show them how "wrong" they were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextromethorphan
There is a difference between being passive and not being aggressive. That middle way is part of my spirituality. There is a REASON that Zen emphasizes compassion so much, and it needs to be practiced in every aspect of our day-to-day lives. Practically everything I post on these issues is aimed at helping people to sort things out in one way or another, and that is far from being passive. You and I just have a difference of emphasis or attitude in doing this, but it is a relevant difference. When's the last time you taught someone a meaningful lesson by arguing the hell out of them and getting them to submit, arguing them down until they gave up and said they don't want to talk about it anymore (which is more likely than admitting they were wrong)? The interpersonal tensions of arguments already provide a stubborn emotional inhibition to true learning for most people; as I said before, learning is collaborative. It really is. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, because I've seen it and experienced both ways. Take the current situation: if you see yourself as being in an argument with me, you're just not going to fully get what I'm saying. And I wouldn't blame you, because emotions are just as much a part of comprehension as logic is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextromethorphan
If we don't "all just get along" yet in the "real world," it is because people who are on the verge of KNOWING how to get along with everybody (like you) don't practice their beliefs fully. If spiritual insights don't apply to every aspect of life and the "real world," then how can they count for anything? Are they just for private, personal enlightenment? I hate to dissappoint you but there's no such thing: enlightenment is a state of reality, not a state of mind. It's just the way things are naturally in the universe, and not something that can be attained by an individual; individuals can attune themselves to the way of things, but only by seeing how we are the same as everyone else and acting out of compassion for that fact. This is only one way of expressing the dharma, but it means the same thing as any other expression.
I think that you have compassion, but you need to acquire skillful means. That is, looking deeply into each situation to understand what is called for in the particular instance, rather than following a formula established by ideas you've had in the past. Even on a forum, this applies. Every post should be different; your every assertion must not necessarily be consistent with the last one, but only with what the person needs to hear to help them overcome personal barriers.
Well, it works for me in MY real world, which is the same as yours. I think it would work for you too if only you'd give it a try. But most people are afraid to give it a try. The most difficult thing about spiritual wisdom is realizing that it CAN be applied to "real life," social situations, and getting over the delusion that once you enter the social realm of things, the rules are different and that you have to have a different mindset to go along with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextromethorphan
As I said earlier, I don't think you and I are that different on this. It is the structure of "argument" itself that causes the appearance that we are pitted against each other on opposite "sides." In reality, there aren't any sides at all.
What a great thread this is! It isn??t very often that we get into as big of a debate as we have on this one. I say debate because that is what we are doing ?? not arguing. We??ve wandered way off topic now. I??ve been trying to keep this about the different motivations for drug use and their validity, but I??m happy to go down this road.
So you think that by relating my thoughts in a relatively aggressive way I am stopping people from seeing my message? I can buy that, though I didn??t actually think I was being aggressive. The message is the same but the method is different.
I still think I need to press the issue further though:
I believe in community. I believe that a small group of people working in harmony is a great and natural idea. In theory, if everyone did their part and didn??t slack off ever, if no one ever took a second serving of bread this would work. Unfortunately, man is naturally inclined to preserve himself and get ahead, and this always foils the plot and makes large-scale versions of communism fail.
I think that it would be great if everyone took time to explore themselves, come to terms with what they are, and seek spiritual illumination, but I??m not going to fool myself into believe that this will happen. The same principles apply here as they do in communism. It??s a damn shame, but it is what it is. What you??re saying, I think, is that people will figure it out by themselves when they are ready, and that pushing the point won??t help. Why not push the point? Can it really hurt? Emotions aside, I think you can see what I??m trying to say. If you can look at what I??ve written with a level head, understand it and take something from it I??ve done what I intended.