The economics of MMJ?

welcome to farming it's a hard business not for stoners if you don't have the passion for botany stay out of the business

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Originally Posted by Justabloke

:angry3:

Wow! I have to say I take great exception to that!!!

I was down at NatuRx where Dianna took VERY good care of me and has some of the lowest priced (top shelf) meds. I paid $43 an 1/8 for some outstanding White Widow X Northern Lights.

She, also, has high-quality meds for around $38 an 1/8? If she can do it anyone can do it. Yes, I think everyone who is legally able should make money as it is the way they make their living in most cases. But price gougeing like many of them do is totally unacceptable in this day and age. We're legal now...we should have to pay street prices or worse MORE.

So as I'm checking out, I asked if they had a donation jar where patients could donate towards other patients who don't enough money for their meds. She told me they did not. So I said as I slid a $1 over the counter "can you pay this forward to a patient who doesn't have enough, please?"

I did it out of compassion knowing how hard it can be to get and keep your stock of meds. I'll prolly never know who not only this dollar but many others I have donated towards patients and their need for meds.

I think if we all did that not only for other patients but to fight stupid stuff like 1284 we'd be in a MUCH better spot! Yes that is in spite of the fact that many disps got ripped off and sold down the river by a core group of people who were supposed to be activists.

What I did I did out of compassion for fellow patients/humans who I'll prolly never meet. I just hope my dollar goes to help someone that needs it and maybe the good karma will come back to me someday when I need it.

In fact, in some ways it already has. Jake over at RLC offered me a free joint (which I completely intend on takeing him up on when I'm over that way!!! lol)

If we were all a lil more compassionate not only would OUR community be a whole lot better, our COUNTRY would be a whole lot better too.

That's just my (not so) humble opinion. Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you must and YES I DO hug trees too! ROFL

JaB

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i think it was ment as in the whole bs basis that mmj is built on.it's ok for you to use but not the"bloke" down the street? how is it compassion to allow 1 group to do something when everyone should be allowed to do it to.as in the people that allow mmj"the gov" based on"compassion" let me ask you does this bill they just passed look like compassion to you?

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Originally Posted by rum2run

welcome to farming it's a hard business not for stoners if you don't have the passion for botany stay out of the business

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agreed it's alot more than tossing seed out and coming back to harvest.i laugh at the dumb shits that say shit like that..guess all they have had was mexi brick so they think thats all there is?lmao

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Originally Posted by starter09

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

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I have done this. How experienced a grower are you? If you are inexperienced, nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. I would add at least 1/3 to your overhead costs and reduce your expected gross by $30k. That's about right for the first year...oh yeah.....and if you're growing in dirt, be ready to hump 48 large pots in and out of a blacked out room during the flowering cycle when growing outdoors.....you will want to take advantage of the direct sunlight. Also, if you're going to keep a healthy indoor grow and go for large yields, plan on having at least 15' of overhead and plan for 16 sq ft. per plant (4' x 4') with 12" of walkway between each one.

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Originally Posted by throatstick

agreed it's alot more than tossing seed out and coming back to harvest.i laugh at the dumb shits that say shit like that..guess all they have had was mexi brick so they think thats all there is?lmao

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lol I tryed that once. It didn't work.

j

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Originally Posted by puntacometa

I have done this. How experienced a grower are you? If you are inexperienced, nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. I would add at least 1/3 to your overhead costs and reduce your expected gross by $30k. That's about right for the first year...oh yeah.....and if you're growing in dirt, be ready to hump 48 large pots in and out of a blacked out room during the flowering cycle when growing outdoors.....you will want to take advantage of the direct sunlight. Also, if you're going to keep a healthy indoor grow and go for large yields, plan on having at least 15' of overhead and plan for 16 sq ft. per plant (4' x 4') with 12" of walkway between each one.

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Did anyone actually read his post? The numbers were from a source online. He clearly states at the end that he's learning how to grow and doesn't have the experience to know whether they're good numbers or not.

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Originally Posted by starter09

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

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I have to laugh at this post. First of all don't quit your day job--LOL. I equate growing medical marijuana in Colorado to growing a tropical plant out-side in winter time in Colorado. I thought it was going to be "real" easy--after all it's just a weed. And as we know weeds grow "wild" in Colorado and most of us spend a lot of time out in our backs yards trying to get rid of them each and every summer.

Nope--growing marijuana is a real chore, and requires a lot of time and attention. As far as the larger commercial grows, it doesn't suprise me that they would spend--30 thousand dollars per grow area. First of all one needs professionals. Electricians--heating--air-conditioning--and many other qualified licensed professionals to keep a project running smoothly. Qualified--licensed electricians in the state of Colorado are not what you consider cheap help. But they keep your home from burning down--and you from electricuting yourself. Water and electricity have never gotten along with one another.

Then one deals with the indoor aspect of keeping a grow room in a tropical mood. Now during our winters means a very large utility bill. During the summers it means a very large utility bill keeping the room cool.

Then you get to deal with all of the indoor plant BUGS that are typical. Spider mites, Thripe, etc. etc. etc.--that all require lots of expensive bug remover. BTW--all of these bugs develope a resistance to these products--so it is a continual on-going problem.

While many people believe that dispensories charge to much--if you had up all this cost to grow it, plus taxes, leased property--employees, etc.--it doesn't surprise me in the least.

While we have had some real stupid people make some very stupid comments in the news media over the last several months--there is no one getting "rich" off of opening up a medical marijuana dispensory.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

I have to laugh at this post. First of all don't quit your day job--LOL. I equate growing medical marijuana in Colorado to growing a tropical plant out-side in winter time in Colorado. I thought it was going to be "real" easy--after all it's just a weed. And as we know weeds grow "wild" in Colorado and most of us spend a lot of time out in our backs yards trying to get rid of them each and every summer.

Nope--growing marijuana is a real chore, and requires a lot of time and attention. As far as the larger commercial grows, it doesn't suprise me that they would spend--30 thousand dollars per grow area. First of all one needs professionals. Electricians--heating--air-conditioning--and many other qualified licensed professionals to keep a project running smoothly. Qualified--licensed electricians in the state of Colorado are not what you consider cheap help. But they keep your home from burning down--and you from electricuting yourself. Water and electricity have never gotten along with one another.

Then one deals with the indoor aspect of keeping a grow room in a tropical mood. Now during our winters means a very large utility bill. During the summers it means a very large utility bill keeping the room cool.

Then you get to deal with all of the indoor plant BUGS that are typical. Spider mites, Thripe, etc. etc. etc.--that all require lots of expensive bug remover. BTW--all of these bugs develope a resistance to these products--so it is a continual on-going problem.

While many people believe that dispensories charge to much--if you had up all this cost to grow it, plus taxes, leased property--employees, etc.--it doesn't surprise me in the least.

While we have had some real stupid people make some very stupid comments in the news media over the last several months--there is no one getting "rich" off of opening up a medical marijuana dispensory.

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Furthermore to my above comment--the opt states expect a 1/2 pound yield per plant--I will add--only in your "[U]wildest dreams"/U]--LOL. Even under indoor supreme conditions--meaning nutrients--CO2--1000 watt lighting NEVER expect more than 4 ounces per plant--no matter what anyone tells you. Consider yourself lucky to get even close to that. Most marijuana plants even under supreme conditions (depending on the plant) will only yield 1 to 2.5 ounces per plant--sometimes even less than 1 ounce.

For closet growers using florescent lighting expect even less than that per plant.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

Furthermore to my above comment--the opt states expect a 1/2 pound yield per plant--I will add--only in your "[U]wildest dreams"/U]--LOL. Even under indoor supreme conditions--meaning nutrients--CO2--1000 watt lighting NEVER expect more than 4 ounces per plant--no matter what anyone tells you. Consider yourself lucky to get even close to that. Most marijuana plants even under supreme conditions (depending on the plant) will only yield 1 to 2.5 ounces per plant--sometimes even less than 1 ounce.

For closet growers using florescent lighting expect even less than that per plant.

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Yield per plant only matters if you're plant-limited (rather than limited by space or light). If you are plant limited, you can still yield 1+ lbs per plant with longer veg time and proper training techniques. If you are self-contained and don't want clone and veg time to exceed flowering time, but are still trying to maximize yield per plant then 1/2 lb is reasonable, I've averaged 3/4 recently.

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Originally Posted by Dorje113

Yield per plant only matters if you're plant-limited (rather than limited by space or light). If you are plant limited, you can still yield 1+ lbs per plant with longer veg time and proper training techniques. If you are self-contained and don't want clone and veg time to exceed flowering time, but are still trying to maximize yield per plant then 1/2 lb is reasonable, I've averaged 3/4 recently.

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LOL--yeah you bet--LOL What's your veg time--5 years--LOL?