Oil !

I do not put a price on either life. If you so highly value all of their life's, then why make them worth nothing by simply pulling out and stopping right here? Why not make them worth something more than just a statistic? How many more will die if we just pull out without Iraq having a stable government? Do you think all the terrorists will just welcome back all the so call "traitors" that help the Americans?

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

I do not put a price on either life. If you so highly value all of their life's, then why make them worth nothing by simply pulling out and stopping right here? Why not make them worth something more than just a statistic? How many more will die if we just pull out without Iraq having a stable government? Do you think all the terrorists will just welcome back all the so call "traitors" that help the Americans?

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Chronology

America and Britain take it upon themselves to invade Iraq (WMD :wtf:) thereby further destabilising the region .
Thousands of deaths later we set up a goverment that we approve of.
We then demand control over the profits of thier oil ,thier only true resource.

Do you not see that without the initial agression from America and Britain this whole situation would not exist , however that is not the case and we must clean up the mess "WE" created and I don't see why we should profit from all the misery that we have caused.

How would that possibly be right ?

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Oil = Money

It's about control of resources and installing goverments that do not object to America ripping off Iraq and Afghanistan as long as they get thier cut.

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fort knox is going to be converted to a refinery some day... :mad:


how much time do we have before the USD is backed by oil?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Chronology

America and Britain take it upon themselves to invade Iraq (WMD :wtf:) thereby further destabilising the region .
Thousands of deaths later we set up a goverment that we approve of.
We then demand control over the profits of thier oil ,thier only true resource.

Do you not see that without the initial agression from America and Britain this whole situation would not exist , however that is not the case and we must clean up the mess "WE" created and I don't see why we should profit from all the misery that we have caused.

How would that possibly be right ?

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Definition of profit is the amount of money left over from income after all expenses have been paid. I hardly think a few billions is going to make up for trillions. So their is no "profit", just us not spending as much of our money. What is wrong with all the legs moving in the same direction?

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

Definition of profit is the amount of money left over from income after all expenses have been paid. I hardly think a few billions is going to make up for trillions.

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Trillions that the US goverment spent with American defence contractors to supply weapons to start a war they had no place starting

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

So their is no "profit", just us not spending as much of our money. What is wrong with all the legs moving in the same direction?

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As long as those legs are doing what the west wants them to of course :beatdeadhorse:
If someone came to your house and fucked your shit up , killed members of your family and then demanded part of your money for the trouble are you telling me that you would pay ?

My reaction would be :S4:

If you are trying to tell me you would be okay with that, then you sir are either a compulsive liar or a complete coward, if someone tried that shit with me I would grab a gun and make then as sorry as hell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Chronology

America and Britain take it upon themselves to invade Iraq (WMD :wtf:) thereby further destabilising the region .
Thousands of deaths later we set up a goverment that we approve of.
We then demand control over the profits of thier oil ,thier only true resource.

Do you not see that without the initial agression from America and Britain this whole situation would not exist , however that is not the case and we must clean up the mess "WE" created and I don't see why we should profit from all the misery that we have caused.

How would that possibly be right ?

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So what do you suggest we do?? Doc hasent invented the flux capacitor yet so theres no way we can go back in time. The bottom line is we gotta cleanup the mess we made there and the security in training there people is costing us money, the US taxpayers. With the Iraqi's approving the security pact and the country stabilizing with the economy seeing a surplus we should see at least some of that cash for training etc, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Trillions that the US goverment spent with American defence contractors to supply weapons to start a war they had no place starting



As long as those legs are doing what the west wants them to of course :beatdeadhorse:
If someone came to your house and fucked your shit up , killed members of your family and then demanded part of your money for the trouble are you telling me that you would pay ?

My reaction would be :S4:

If you are trying to tell me you would be okay with that, then you sir are either a compulsive liar or a complete coward, if someone tried that shit with me I would grab a gun and make then as sorry as hell.

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If it were just like that yes I would do the same. The reality being that they were already held hostage by their own government, which openly said they had WMD's and would use them. So our intelligence and our allies intelligence and even our enemy's actions were all saying the same thing, that Iraq had WMD. So we then put in place a democracy which voted and asked us to stay longer than the UN mandate. So when we are struggling to keep two wars going and have to bail out numerous company's at home you would have Iraq sit there with a fat wallet and not help out their own well being? So you are saying just because, the West wants Iraq to have a stable government that it is a bad thing? Yes, I see your reasoning....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

If it were just like that yes I would do the same. The reality being that they were already held hostage by their own government, which openly said they had WMD's and would use them. So our intelligence and our allies intelligence and even our enemy's actions were all saying the same thing, that Iraq had WMD

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The so called intelligence on Iraq has been discredited so many times that it suprises me that you have the gall to bring it up yet again.

.

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

So we then put in place a democracy which voted and asked us to stay longer than the UN mandate..

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Puppet goverment you mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

So when we are struggling to keep two wars going and have to bail out numerous company's at home you would have Iraq sit there with a fat wallet and not help out their own well being?.

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How in hells name is it any responsibility of Iraq to bail out thier INVADERS ! That borders on insanity, any invader of Britain can expect me to do all I can to convince them to fuck off and never come back, why would the Iraqis feel any different ?

They didn't want our help, they didn't ask for it, we forced it on them so please tell me how it is logical that they should pay ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

So you are saying just because, the West wants Iraq to have a stable government that it is a bad thing? Yes, I see your reasoning....

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Really ?
Do you believe that yourself or are you just toeing the party line ?
Why is it so difficult to see what is so plain ?

Puppet goverments
Access to oil profits (see link in first post) and resources
Middle east and Afghan bases.
Expansion of global markets into previously hostile regions.
They are the reasons America is in Afghanistan and Iraq

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobPA

So what do you suggest we do?? Doc hasent invented the flux capacitor yet so theres no way we can go back in time. The bottom line is we gotta cleanup the mess we made there and the security in training there people is costing us money, the US taxpayers. With the Iraqi's approving the security pact and the country stabilizing with the economy seeing a surplus we should see at least some of that cash for training etc, etc.

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If you don't ask for help but another takes it upon themselves to help you by blowing up your house and killing your friends and family , you would then be happy for that person to also take some of your money ?

I really don't think so

How about the the statements Saddam made about having WMD's? Take it from the horses mouth.How is helping us out money wise not helping them selves out? They don't have all the technological advances we have that help to give all of us an edge in the fight against terrorism. keeping those advanced technology going costs a lot of money. I don't expect them to pay us back at all, if anything we lost a shit load of money in Iraq that few billions will not make up for. I mean just look at how our economy is partly thanks to the two wars. Why let the money just sit there and pile up when it could be put to good use? It is not as if we are stealing the money they are voluntarily giving it to us. Also last time I checked not every Iraqi hates us and yes, there are those who actually want us to stay there. Where do you get your sources that say other wise?

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

How about the the statements Saddam made about having WMD's? Take it from the horses mouth.How is helping us out money wise not helping them selves out? They don't have all the technological advances we have that help to give all of us an edge in the fight against terrorism. keeping those advanced technology going costs a lot of money. I don't expect them to pay us back at all, if anything we lost a shit load of money in Iraq that few billions will not make up for. I mean just look at how our economy is partly thanks to the two wars. Why let the money just sit there and pile up when it could be put to good use? It is not as if we are stealing the money they are voluntarily giving it to us. Also last time I checked not every Iraqi hates us and yes, there are those who actually want us to stay there. Where do you get your sources that say other wise?

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You must have been hiding in a hole for an awful long time if you don't know that the whole WMD has been done to death and the conclusion is still the same, it was a bullshit excuse .http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/in...t/11intel.html

The two illegal wars that were started under false pretences have cost lives on all sides.
Do you think anyone should pay for wars that America and Britain started other than America and Britain and if so why ?

BTW
Your economy is in the shit because of mismanagement and bad decisions by US companies, what has Iraq got to do with sub prime loans ?BBC NEWS | Business | Q&A: Sub-prime lending
What has Iraq got to do with Ford or GM ?Ford Unveils Deeper Cuts To Fend Off Financial Crisis JOSEPH B. WHITE & JEFFREY MCCRACKEN / Wall Street Journal 15sep2006
You can believe whatever you want but the reality is that America is in financial shit because of America not because of anyone else so why should anyone but America pay ?