What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDanger
Provide some facts. She wants intelligent design taught in addition to the current evolution THEORY
When you put THEORY in big capitals, you confuse the definitions. In science a theory is a something you can test, something that has countless experiments been done on. You have hundreds years worth of acute observations. In this day, you have DNA. The theory of evolution is bound to be proven someday given the technological advances of today. In the mean-time, it's the most tested theory and has advanced beyond a hypothesis.
That's exactly what creationism is, a hypothesis. Exactly how can you test creationism? It's simply words. With the theory of evolution, you can take some of the hypothesises and test it for yourself. You are able to observe the various similar traits. Any person can. With creationism, it's centered around belief.
That's why religion and science should never mix.
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thcbongman
When you put THEORY in big capitals, you confuse the definitions. In science a theory is a something you can test, something that has countless experiments been done on. You have hundreds years worth of acute observations. In this day, you have DNA. The theory of evolution is bound to be proven someday given the technological advances of today. In the mean-time, it's the most tested theory and has advanced beyond a hypothesis.
That's exactly what creationism is, a hypothesis. Exactly how can you test creationism? It's simply words. With the theory of evolution, you can take some of the hypothesises and test it for yourself. You are able to observe the various similar traits. Any person can. With creationism, it's centered around belief.
That's why religion and science should never mix.
Creationism is a relatively new field in the last 30 years. You're comparing apples to oranges. People laughed/mocked Darwin and thought he was a loon for his theory of Evolution by the mainstream. Younger generations were interested in his theory.
Creationism tries to ultimately address an question that science is still very far off from figuring out. How exactly did life begin on this planet.. why are we here and why is the universe here. These things cannot be tested or proven and we are very far away from having the slightest idea of how it really happened.
Big Bang Theory - can't be tested or proven
Wormholes - can't be tested or proven
Dark matter - can't be tested or proven
Cold Fusion - couldn't be proven for decades, seemed like a stupid thing from the Cold war. Now it's a reality, the problem is getting enough Helium 3 to take it a step further.
I mean there are countless things in science that people truely BELIEVE to exist. They have such strong faith that things are out there, they keep searching and searching without any hope of finding an actual answer yet we all accept it as Truth.
Why so skeptic of creationism. Is it really that difficult to believe that someone or something maybe initiated life on earth?
I don't deny the possibility, but I don't personally believe in it.
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
It would be a huge understatement to say that the Founding Fathers would not not pleased with this state of affairs.
Are you trying to say that the founding fathers weren't religiously influenced? I thought that during that period of time, an athiest was another name for witch.
Have a good one!:s4:
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
She's got 5 kids.
Thats a job.
Hah, well I think she means well, I really don't know anything about her except that she's a proponent of public education and she's very pro-life. Probably even more so now that her 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant (but thats neither here nor there).
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDanger
Then you really must think Al Gore is nuts since he started his own religion, based on assumptions. None of which have been proven. Same with evolution, none of it has been proven, so it is all based on faith. That is religion.
So you think everybody is insane that does not believe in your religion of atheism.
I'm not an atheist. Don't tell me what I believe. If you want to know what I believe, ask me and I will tell you, but do not go posting that I believe something when you really have no idea and are in fact wrong.
The THEORY of evolution is based on measurable FACTS that cannot be deinied. The system of science proposes ideas that are meant to be consistent with the FACTS that have been measured, and then proposes ways to test those ideas to see if they are consistent with other measured FACTS. Once the idea has been rigorously tested and found to be consistent with everything we observe, it is called a THEORY.
So a THEORY is an idea or explanation that has been shown to be true by every way we know to test it. However, a THEORY is never a FACT and it is generally not considered to be PROVEN. You don't PROVE theories, you test them.
The THEORY of evolution has been tested in thousands of ways for over 100 years and is so far consistent with observable FACT. It's pretty solid, but it continues to be tested, and is not itself a FACT.
I'm glad you brought up Global Warming, because this is one of the problems I think a creationist might have a little trouble dealing with. There is a lot of scientific evidence that burning fossil fuels will change the climate. I don't trust a person who doesn't even believe the world is 6000 years old to be able to deal with ancient fossil evidence that is part of the evidence for the theory.
I don't trust that such a person would not just dismiss that kind of evidence because they don't believe the world is even old enogh for that evidence to exist. And if they don't think the world changed in the past, then why would they believe it is changing now? And if it is changing now, I do not trust them not to just dismiss that change as part of God's plan.
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Sure, theory like big bang and theory of relativity cannot be tested in such a fashion. However there are schematic models with each, and observations based on other theories. None of those theories, creationism, intelligent design are reliant on such models. Unless it's brought to the next level and start to prove the hypothesis that this is the responsiblity of a creator. I don't discount it as an idea, although the little I know about creationism it doesn't really have any scientific basis. It could very well be proven true in time like many others.
I'm not an atheist by any means, so don't get this impression I don't believe in god. I believe in concepts like reincarnation and enlightenment. That doesn't mean it's fact, I simply believe in it. Nor does it imply it shouldn't be taught in schools, I simply think it shouldn't be intermingled with science until some of the hypothesis they state are started to be tested and proven true.
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thcbongman
Sure, theory like big bang and theory of relativity cannot be tested in such a fashion. However there are schematic models with each, and observations based on other theories. None of those theories, creationism, intelligent design are reliant on such models. Unless it's brought to the next level and start to prove the hypothesis that this is the responsiblity of a creator. I don't discount it as an idea, although the little I know about creationism it doesn't really have any scientific basis. It could very well be proven true in time like many others.
I'm not an atheist by any means, so don't get this impression I don't believe in god. I believe in concepts like reincarnation and enlightenment. That doesn't mean it's fact, I simply believe in it. Nor does it imply it shouldn't be taught in schools, I simply think it shouldn't be intermingled with science until some of the hypothesis they state are started to be tested and proven true.
It's not that.. it's that by definition a Theory is something that is not proven as true. So regardless of your argument.. any scientific theory is still a theory and not fact.
You can have all the models in the world but it doesn't make you right unless you can prove it.
Science and creationism are in the same boat essentially no matter how you roll the dice. Science is just in the better position to win this fight, and probably by a landslide at that. :hippy:
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
I do not trust them not to just dismiss that change as part of God's plan.
You don't understand creationism. Not all answers in creationism/intelligent design refer to unknowns as "God's plan".
I'm agnostic btw, I don't believe in god but I don't deny the possibility of god or a higher being having influenced us.
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
I just want to say that I spent that last 30 minutes pouring my heart out... trying to explain my personal view on this topic. After all that time, and to be honest emotion, I accidentally clicked something and lost it all.
I'm late for going back to work now....
I just beat the fucking SHIT out of a notebook. I used to destroy things like doors and walls when I would get this mad. Luckily I've broken my knuckles, hands, and wrists so many times that I've downgraded to softer materials.
I don't think you all understand how :mad: I am right now. You know those posts when you know you said everything you wanted to say?
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!
What Specific Accomplishments/Experience Does Palin Have?
This is probably not the place to get into the evolution debate. But....
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Creationism is a relatively new field in the last 30 years. You're comparing apples to oranges. People laughed/mocked Darwin and thought he was a loon for his theory of Evolution by the mainstream. Younger generations were interested in his theory.
Creationism tries to ultimately address an question that science is still very far off from figuring out. How exactly did life begin on this planet.. why are we here and why is the universe here. These things cannot be tested or proven and we are very far away from having the slightest idea of how it really happened.
I think maybe you are talking about "Intelligent Design." The term "Creationism" is generally used to describe the belief that the Bible creation story is literlally true in every detail --- universe is 6000 years old, Adam and Eve, all animals and plants created in exactly the form they have today.
"Intelligent Design" is the idea that life has changed over time, but that it is guided by an "Intelligent Designer" who is generally taken to be God. The argument for it is usually that life is too complex to have evolved through purely physical phenomena.
There are infinite varieties of beliefs all along this spectrum.
The reason these ideas are not considered theories for scientific purposes is that they do not propose any method of testing, which is required in order to be a hypothesis or a theory. In addition, pure creationism is actually shown to be inconsistent with many known facts, so it's never going to be a theory --- plain and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Big Bang Theory - can't be tested or proven
The Big Bang theory is tested through astronimical observation that shows the universe is expanding. It is also tested through quantum physics experiments that attempt to recreate conditions similar to the earliest moments of time. It contimues to be tested and refined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Wormholes - can't be tested or proven
Wormholes are a theory that grows out of purely theoretical physics --- mathematical extrapolation, like General Relativity and things like Black Holes. These kinds of theories are much harder to test, but like General Relativity and Black Holes, the theories do make predictions about what we should be able to observe if the theories are true. And eventually that is either born out or not. In the case of General Relativity and Black Holes, the astronomical predictions were later observed and they are considered well-founded theories now. I don't know what observations are predicted for Wormholes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Dark matter - can't be tested or proven
The Dark Matter theory is tested through astronimical observation that shows large anmounts of gravity that cannot be accounted for by things we can observe. We know the gravitaional effect is there, but do not claim to know specifically what it is. This is another area pursued through both astronomy and quantum physcal experiments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Cold Fusion - couldn't be proven for decades, seemed like a stupid thing from the Cold war. Now it's a reality, the problem is getting enough Helium 3 to take it a step further.
Cold Fusion is not a theory. It is a physical application. Actually cold fusion has never been demonstrated as far as I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
I mean there are countless things in science that people truely BELIEVE to exist. They have such strong faith that things are out there, they keep searching and searching without any hope of finding an actual answer yet we all accept it as Truth.
The purpose of searching is that there IS hope of finding answeres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Why so skeptic of creationism. Is it really that difficult to believe that someone or something maybe initiated life on earth?
I don't deny the possibility, but I don't personally believe in it.
Many scientists, including evolution scientists, believe in God. There is nothing wrong with that or the idea that Goid initiated creation. However, scientists belive there are physical mechanisms to everything that can be observed and explained. Beliefs that rely on supernatural forces as the actual MECHANISM are not scientifc, unless they can propose theories for the supernatural being or force, in which case it's no longer supernatural, and it's back to science and not faith anymore.
