A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
Again, many Christians believe that if it weren't for the fall of Adam & Eve, this world would have remained perfect... and we'd have never felt suffering, pain, or death.
I've never liked the idea of original sin. I don't like the idea that one act by Adam and Eve cursed us all to a life of suffering, pain and death. This idea of The Fall from Grace puts the blame on us for all the suffering in the world. Many put more blame on Eve. And I dislike the idea that I bear guilt for a sin that supposedly was committed by someone else.
It's been a long, long time since I read any William Blake, but as I remember it, he had an alternative for the Fall. In his idea, the Fall was not due to some act of mankind. I don't remember how his idea worked, but the result was that everything in creation was somehow fractured. Everything was somehow spilt into components of a single whole, and we were all driven to put the pieces back togather. One example was the male and female components of the single whole of humanity. Love and sex were our attempts to reconcile the split and rejoin together and reachieve Grace. But the result is always another copy of our imperfect fractured selves. Again, I do not remember this very well, so if someone wants to correct any mistakes I made, please do.
I think all of the ideas of a fallen state of grace are just allegories and ways to explain why the world is not perfect and why we suffer. None of them are really literally true in my opinion. But I guess I preferred the Blake allegory over the traditional Christian allegory.
A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
I think all of the ideas of a fallen state of grace are just allegories and ways to explain why the world is not perfect and why we suffer. None of them are really literally true in my opinion. But I guess I preferred the Blake allegory over the traditional Christian allegory.
To each his/her own, my friend. Whether or not the fall was entirely allegorical is up to the reader to decide, and really depends on whether or not you're reading it with a religious perspective. Spirituality makes people believe some crazy things, this obviously doesn't just apply to Christians. You can look at things "logically", and conclude that for original sin to be true, there'd have to be an omnipotent being who made it so. Logically, this is impossible to do. But taking on a religious perspective, and actually making it a point to believe (and trust) in the divinity of God and Christ, makes the creation story, fall of man, crucifixion/resurrection, and many other stories of the Bible believable once again.
I found that as a kid - with a very active imagination, I might add - it was easy to believe in the Bible. As I grew older, I took the same route that far too many have taken, and questioned the authority of God. And for a while, denounced it altogether. I searched for answers elsewhere and found many interesting theories, and lots of speculation, but never anything that satisfied my desire to better understand life and the possibility of an afterlife. Eventually I picked up a Bible again, and started reading it from an objective standpoint. I started to make sense of things that were constantly in question, and eventually took on a whole new outlook on life. Similar to the outlook I had when I was a kid, only from a slightly more mature perspective. Every time I pray, I feel like a child that's looking to a Father for forgiveness, or comfort, or just some advice. God may not manifest Himself before me and make me understand the answers to my questions, but His guidance is easy for me to recognize... especially after transitioning from the bitter atheist that I once was, to the Christian that I've become. I can feel His influence in my life, which makes it slightly easier for me to believe, I guess.
A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
I've never liked the idea of original sin. I don't like the idea that one act by Adam and Eve cursed us all to a life of suffering, pain and death. This idea of The Fall from Grace puts the blame on us for all the suffering in the world. Many put more blame on Eve. And I dislike the idea that I bear guilt for a sin that supposedly was committed by someone else.
It's been a long, long time since I read any William Blake, but as I remember it, he had an alternative for the Fall. In his idea, the Fall was not due to some act of mankind. I don't remember how his idea worked, but the result was that everything in creation was somehow fractured. Everything was somehow spilt into components of a single whole, and we were all driven to put the pieces back togather. One example was the male and female components of the single whole of humanity. Love and sex were our attempts to reconcile the split and rejoin together and reachieve Grace. But the result is always another copy of our imperfect fractured selves. Again, I do not remember this very well, so if someone wants to correct any mistakes I made, please do.
I think all of the ideas of a fallen state of grace are just allegories and ways to explain why the world is not perfect and why we suffer. None of them are really literally true in my opinion. But I guess I preferred the Blake allegory over the traditional Christian allegory.
lmfao
A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
To each his/her own, my friend. Whether or not the fall was entirely allegorical is up to the reader to decide, and really depends on whether or not you're reading it with a religious perspective. Spirituality makes people believe some crazy things, this obviously doesn't just apply to Christians. You can look at things "logically", and conclude that for original sin to be true, there'd have to be an omnipotent being who made it so. Logically, this is impossible to do. But taking on a religious perspective, and actually making it a point to believe (and trust) in the divinity of God and Christ, makes the creation story, fall of man, crucifixion/resurrection, and many other stories of the Bible believable once again.
I found that as a kid - with a very active imagination, I might add - it was easy to believe in the Bible. As I grew older, I took the same route that far too many have taken, and questioned the authority of God. And for a while, denounced it altogether. I searched for answers elsewhere and found many interesting theories, and lots of speculation, but never anything that satisfied my desire to better understand life and the possibility of an afterlife. Eventually I picked up a Bible again, and started reading it from an objective standpoint. I started to make sense of things that were constantly in question, and eventually took on a whole new outlook on life. Similar to the outlook I had when I was a kid, only from a slightly more mature perspective. Every time I pray, I feel like a child that's looking to a Father for forgiveness, or comfort, or just some advice. God may not manifest Himself before me and make me understand the answers to my questions, but His guidance is easy for me to recognize... especially after transitioning from the bitter atheist that I once was, to the Christian that I've become. I can feel His influence in my life, which makes it slightly easier for me to believe, I guess.
i would post a message sent by one of the mods when she banned me, and u could clearly see how wrong it was, and i did nothing wrong. but i asked about it and posted the whole thing and they deleted it and told me if i brought it up again i'd be banned again.
so i won't but just be careful what u say on here as once they know how u believe it's like having cross hairs on u. so if i get banned again u will know why just by writing this might get me banned again. no free speech
A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by palerider7777
so i won't but just be careful what u say on here as once they know how u believe it's like having cross hairs on u.
I generally try to be cordial to those I meet here, and keep MOST of my religious views to myself. Every once in a while I'll get involved with off-topic religious discussions just for some extra fun. But I've got plenty of time in my personal life to discuss spirituality, and only limited time to cruise around these forums and learn something new. It's also much easier for me to participate in theological discussions when done in-person. I think it's because I'm one of those kinds of people who makes a lot of random hand gestures when they talk, and it's kinda difficult to flail my arms around while typing!
Try not to take it too personally, brother. The mods have been deleting all kinds of posts and banning all kinds of people, so it's not just you. I think they're under certain new obligations from the site owners, and are "cleaning up" all over the place for professionalism purposes and such. I've had a few posts that got deleted because the entire thread was deleted by a mod. Some of them I really spent some time on, too. But they were just doing what they had to do. And I just lost a paragraph or two that took 15 minutes to type. No harm done. I'm sure if you try to have a insightful discussion with a moderator about extraction fans, water-cooled HIDs, C02 enhancement, genetic anomalies in cannabis, etc., you'll find that they're pretty receptive to what you have to say. :D
Keep up the faith, man. Let your actions and deeds be how you show your love for God. Don't let people here get you down.
A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
I generally try to be cordial to those I meet here, and keep MOST of my religious views to myself. Every once in a while I'll get involved with off-topic religious discussions just for some extra fun. But I've got plenty of time in my personal life to discuss spirituality, and only limited time to cruise around these forums and learn something new. It's also much easier for me to participate in theological discussions when done in-person. I think it's because I'm one of those kinds of people who makes a lot of random hand gestures when they talk, and it's kinda difficult to flail my arms around while typing!
Try not to take it too personally, brother. The mods have been deleting all kinds of posts and banning all kinds of people, so it's not just you. I think they're under certain new obligations from the site owners, and are "cleaning up" all over the place for professionalism purposes and such. I've had a few posts that got deleted because the entire thread was deleted by a mod. Some of them I really spent some time on, too. But they were just doing what they had to do. And I just lost a paragraph or two that took 15 minutes to type. No harm done. I'm sure if you try to have a insightful discussion with a moderator about extraction fans, water-cooled HIDs, C02 enhancement, genetic anomalies in cannabis, etc., you'll find that they're pretty receptive to what you have to say. :D
Keep up the faith, man. Let your actions and deeds be how you show your love for God. Don't let people here get you down.
yes i know i've learned as long as i don't talk about god then it's fine so i've said what iv'e had to say on the matter and now im just sticking to the other than god forums.
A Question for the Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by palerider7777
yes i know i've learned as long as i don't talk about god then it's fine so i've said what iv'e had to say on the matter and now im just sticking to the other than god forums.
Might be for the best. As much as I feel compelled to give my opinion about God in many of these threads, I often just keep silent unless I have something meaningful to add to the conversation... or someone has asked a specific question about my beliefs. I try not to be contradictory in threads I didn't create, as this generally just starts arguments with people. I think this is a pretty nice community, so I feel it's often better to remain silent so as not to agitate the delicate boundary between civil disagreements and all-out flame wars.
