Some front line views of the war against God.
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Damn, you just repeat yourself all the time. In every post.
Also, I think that you're just a troll, now that I think about it
The reason I have to repeat myself so much is people just dont listen, they cant read or they have difficulty understanding what I am actually trying to say.
For about 20 posts now ive been saying that. ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT CHILDREN SHOULD BE GIVEN CREATIONISM AS A VIABLE REASON AS TO WHY WE ARE HERE.
Due to the lack of evidence of evolution, this makes creationism just as viable, I know this is very hard to accept for the atheists but your in the same boat as creationists in terms of proof of YOUR THEORY
Didnt you look at it this way?
Dont you ever question your own beliefs?
Do you even study your own beliefs or do you simply presume that there IS evidence out there and that evolution IS true?
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I think that you're just a troll
Im getting really sick of this annoying phrase, I really dont get how you relate a troll to someone who comes on the internet and debates about bringing creationism into the classroom.
And dont point fingers because I just hit you with the fact that your beliefs in evolution hold as much weight as your "enemy" creationism in terms of evidence and the lack of it, there is no difference between the two lol.
I mean look at this stupid attempt to debunk me:
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Astrology is based upon the positions of the stars. Just because there is something wrong with astrology, that doesn't invalidate the position of the stars, only the assumptions or interpretations derived from them.
Of course this is correct, me believing that apples came from mars by a 5 million footed alien beast also does not invalidate the fact that apples exist.
:thumbsup:
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We've come to realize that the species can survive though sharing and diversity (ie: not killing each other). How does this conflict with evolution again?
So how are the murderers punished?
How is a rapist, crimminal punished?
How are the fact that you kill these living beings punished?
Please answer me these questions in regards to darwinistic evolutioin without backtracking to a form of karmic punishment, because...
YOU WILL BE IN CONTRADICTION:D
:thumbsup:
Some front line views of the war against God.
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No offense but that's pretty desperate. To be honest your whole post is desperate. What examples - you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
No delta 9, you are the one who doesnt know what he's talking about.
You said that eugenics has no relation whatsoever to Darwinist evolution schools of thought which are fundamentals to educational science and learning.
I also proved to you that it was Charles Darwinâ??s HALF COUSIN who created much of the modern basis and theory for eugenics.
HIS HALF COUSIN FFS!
LET ALONE THE THEORIES BEING RELATED, THE ACTUAL THINKERS BEHIND THIS SELECTIVE BREEDING AND CREATION OF A SUPER RACE CALLED EUGENICS ARE RELATED LOL
This is laughable!
Delta 9, smoking cannabis does have a profound effect upon your short term memory and ability to understand.
There are a profound amount of negative effects derived from cannabis, it is no miracle plant, it is no food sent from 'the gods'.
Just like there are a profound amount of flaws in evolution I ask only that the educational system hold creationism as a viable option and alternative which could also be true.
This is all im saying, when you get this into your mind im sure you will understand that for you to walk away from religion into evolutionary thinking you had to question and consider the lack of evidence with regards to religion, there is no reason why you should not do this with evolution and any other theory you come across and phase for a short period of time in your life believing you have found the pinnacle of understanding for humanity.
Because you are no way near.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
I also proved to you that it was Charles Darwinâ??s HALF COUSIN who created much of the modern basis and theory for eugenics.
HIS HALF COUSIN FFS!
So, uh, what's your point? I'm related to a lot of people who have viewpoints that are sometimes similar to mine and sometimes different from mine.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
No its not because you are not in touch with the foundations of this debate and why I brought up the whole question of eugenics.
You are hijacking this thread.
My original reasons for bringing up eugenics was based around the fact that evolutionary thinking and doctrines which were created by the founder of evolution Charles Darwin gave birth to terrible atrocious ideologies SUCH AS eugenics.
the reason I brought up Astrology was because astronomy gave birth to such silly ideas as astrology. I don't see how it's not relevant to show that just because evolution gave birth to some odd and flawed ideas, that evolution itself must be flawed.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
This is why you have not realised the foundations of my points in this debate which did not concern you, you just jumped in uninvited as you always do.
Sorry, I've read the entire thread, as I always do.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Again I must point out for the millionth time that your debates and points do nothing by exemplify the theory of evolution which itself has never been proven and along with an atheists perception of causes of existence.
You are free to believe, as creationists do in a theory which is based upon no evidence.
I have not once said that evolution is not true, yet if you wish to continue to categorize me into the segment of creationists then please do so, I am not one.
I haven't yet said that evolution or creation is true either, nor have I categorized you. It seems that you are the one that is prejudging me.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Again - why do you continually stray from points you cannot answer?
The man can be a rapist for all I care, he could be an inter dimensional alien being from mars with a wife and children on private health care with BUPA. It doesnt matter.
I didnt give that link to reccommend a speaker/author to you.
I did it because Delta 9 asked me to provide it for him as evidence, and yes I provided it. Which is more than what I can say for evolutionists and their evidence!:)
It doesnt matter who offers the reward, the most significant factor is that none of you atheistic evolutionists can answer to it.
I know the reason you mentioned Dr Dino, because Delta asked about this institute that offers money for proving that evolution can be proven. Now because this contest hasn't had it's money claimed, that doesn't show that evolution is not true. It's quite a possibility that delta also knows the fallacies of this contest, so he doesn't include it as a known contest. The reason I mentioned anything about his morality was to show that the contest has it's own problems, even if it were set up by someone else (a scientist even), so I can't pin it on Hovind being "crazy". I don't care what Hovind's morals are either, I just want to show the flaws of the contest.
from wikipedia, the definition of evolution
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In biology, evolution is the change in the inheritedtraits of a population from generation to generation. These traits are the expression of genes that are copied and passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences (genetic variation) between organisms. New traits can also come from transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population, either non-randomly through natural selection or randomly through genetic drift.
Dr Dino's Definition of Evolution* (yes, he has an asterisk in his contest on the word evolution)
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*NOTE: When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of the various life forms (microevolution). I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God: 1. Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.2. Planets and stars formed from space dust.3. Matter created life by itself.4. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.5. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).
Evolution doesn't claim that these things happened without God. Hovind also wants one to "Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the process of evolution ... is the only possible way the observed phenomena could have come into existence."
Evolution doesn't make the claim that it's the only way that it could have happened, just the most likely way based upon evidence. They can't prove that invisible evolution fairies, with no discernible mass or volume that can be captured with our testing measures, didn't bring upon the changes in any kind of evolution, because it wasn't observed, and there's no evidence for it (being unmeasurable and all).
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Dont rule out creationism and think you are 'above' it because you watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube, I know people - a profound amount of creationists who study science related subjects in masters and Degree level qualifications, they are all creationists.
That's fine and dandy, I know quite a few scientists and engineers, most of who are atheists. That doesn't mean a thing.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
I mean look at this stupid attempt to debunk me:
Of course this is correct, me believing that apples came from mars by a 5 million footed alien beast also does not invalidate the fact that apples exist.
:thumbsup:
that's exactly my point, now you are the one that is strengthening my argument. Just because darwin's half cousin (zomg half cousin cahoots WTF?!?! an aside, this is probably why people are calling you a troll) gave birth to eugenics, that doesn't invalidate evolution, as astrology doesn't invalidate astronomy, as apple alien beasts don't invalidate apples.
But you're presenting eugenics as a problem with evolution, at the same time as denying that there's a problem between apple beasts and apples.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
So how are the murderers punished?
How is a rapist, crimminal punished?
How are the fact that you kill these living beings punished?
Please answer me these questions in regards to darwinistic evolutioin without backtracking to a form of karmic punishment, because...
YOU WILL BE IN CONTRADICTION:D
:thumbsup:
In case you hadn't noticed, we've taken it upon ourselves to punish people who kill. To put it in simple terms, maybe humans have "evolved" to think that killing each other is bad. And regardless, I won't be in contradiction, because I still haven't stated if I believe in evolution. You're billing me as an "evolutionist" the same way others are accusing you of being a creationist, simply because you're putting up creationist arguments.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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So, uh, what's your point? I'm related to a lot of people who have viewpoints that are sometimes similar to mine and sometimes different from mine.
Thanks for joining:thumbsup:
I donâ??t care about your relatives the fact remains that I have proved that eugenics and evolutionary Darwinist thinking are related, this argument is dead.
I ended it by showing that the two are incredible interlinked.
Okay?:thumbsup:
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the reason I brought up Astrology was because astronomy gave birth to such silly ideas as astrology. I don't see how it's not relevant to show that just because evolution gave birth to some odd and flawed ideas, that evolution itself must be flawed.
Well actually this isnâ??t really a strong enough response to flaw the response I gave you.
I never once said evolution is flawed, if you actually read or understand anything of what im saying you wouldnâ??t need to waste my time.
Im not going to say it again because im sick of repeating myself.
I feel your being purposely ignorant to annoy me.
I never once said evolution is not true and flawed, I said that we must also show in education the negative side to evolution.
And I dont care what analogy you use from apples to aliens to astrology, it doesnt bother me the fact remains that the analogy you used was completley stupid and my response about the apple and the alien flawed it senselessly.
:thumbsup:
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I haven't yet said that evolution or creation is true either, nor have I categorized you. It seems that you are the one that is prejudging me.
But your posts are directed to the defence of evolution, do not change your motives because it is clear you are here to defend a debate which doesnâ??t even exist.
You realised this too late and now your trying to drag yourself out of the silly boat lol.
I have no problem with evolution (ive been saying this all along if youve been paying attention) its just the fact that the negative aspects or alternative beliefs (which can be classed as just as valid) are just shoved to the bottom of the text book pile in education.
:thumbsup:
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I know the reason you mentioned Dr Dino, because Delta asked about this institute that offers money for proving that evolution can be proven. Now because this contest hasn't had it's money claimed, that doesn't show that evolution is not true.
Yes exactly thank you for exemplifying the points I have been trying to make, I agree yet the same can be applied to creationism, which is why we should not shove the text books "to the bottom of the pile" in the classroom, we should give creationism as a viable option (this is all ive been saying all along) im not here to debunk evolution just to make you aware that it could be as flawed as the flying spaghetti monster
So thanks for understanding after all this time.
:thumbsup:
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In case you hadn't noticed, we've taken it upon ourselves to punish people who kill. To put it in simple terms, maybe humans have "evolved" to think that killing each other is bad.
So you have no answer?
Do you realise that your 'system' only really punishes and catches a very very small percentage of the people who commit these acts.
Its all fine to believe that we have evolved enough not to want to kill each other but - we havent, and until you can prove that we have you have no explanation for my questions but utter hypothesis.
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And regardless, I won't be in contradiction, because I still haven't stated if I believe in evolution. You're billing me as an "evolutionist" the same way others are accusing you of being a creationist,
By all means I do not mean to bundle you into the segment of evolutionists, but clearly if you dont agree with the fact that evolution has given rise to terrible schools of thought as has religion then what is your debate here?
Why are you here?
To tell me that im wrong? Wrong and that evolution has not actually been so bad that we shouldnt question it and give creationism to the children as a viable reason or option as to how and why we came about?
I await your response
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that's exactly my point, now you are the one that is strengthening my argument. Just because darwin's half cousin (zomg half cousin cahoots WTF?!?! an aside, this is probably why people are calling you a troll) gave birth to eugenics, that doesn't invalidate evolution,
Wrong. Clearly you dont understand that I was finding a RELATION to eugenics and evolution not trying to DEBUNK evolution.
I did not attempt to relate eugenics to evolution as a means to invalidate it, (I think your loosing track of this debate) Delta told me that the two are not related, I said that they are and I proved this, how on earth does this mean I wish to invalidade the theory of evolution? LOL.
Infact not once have I claimed evolution is untrue.
I simply said it has given birth to schools of thought based around eugenics and selective breeding, the person who thought up these items was related to Charles Darwin this does not mean that evolution is not true and I never said this was a reason why evolution is invalid.
So I await your response to this mistake you have made.
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But you're presenting eugenics as a problem with evolution, at the same time as denying that there's a problem between apple beasts and apples.
No, you are free to perceive it this way as monkeys are free to perceive us as idiots.
Please... Read on..
Yet eugenics I have not once mentioned is a problem with evolution, clearly it works well with evolution but how about with morality and reasoning?
I suggest you fully understand the bases behind the fields of study you wish to debate about before confronting people and attempting to flaw them by creating your own targets to knock down.
If I have genuinely made a mistake you are free to debunk me and fool me as you please. I donâ??t care, I live and learn.
Yet I not once said that eugenics is in any way a means to debunk evolution and prove it invalid, this is stupid, neither did I say eugenics and evolution are incompatible (this even worse) I simply said that eugenics (being that it is tied in with evolution) and has a very large question mark about it, and thus must signal us to also display this question mark to the youth in classrooms.
Evolution carries certain negative fields of thought LIKE EUGENICS and human selective breeding which is one of the reasons why we should raise questions in classrooms of morality, you claim we will evolve and become moral 'Gods', your hypothesis may work if it were true yet today in todayâ??s world it is but a hypothesis which is not true.
Which is why if we pump childrenâ??s mind with theories which lack morality (being that you say we must be at a highly evolved conscious state to avoid murder, rape etc which we are not) it would be stupid to carry on teaching children theories which lack morality being as we have not reached this amazingly high evolved conscious level yet.
Even so, you cannot say if we will ever achieve it.
As we move forth into the future I only see war and conflict on a higher level.
Some front line views of the war against God.
My friends were devout christians years before we started smoking. By the time I moved, all those high talks about religion and the universe.. It took weed to unlock their minds and see how blatantly retarded religion is, and are atheist / agnostic to this day.
Some front line views of the war against God.
OK so what are the "problems" with Evolution that you keep banging on about. I don't see them mentioned here.
What evolution has is what any good scientific claim has--evidence, and lots of it. Evolution is supported by a wide range of observations throughout the fields of genetics, anatomy, ecology, animal behavior, paleontology, and others.
If you wish to challenge the theory of evolution, you must address that evidence. You must show that the evidence is either wrong or irrelevant or that it fits another theory better.
Of course, to do this, you must know both the theory and the evidence.
Some front line views of the war against God.
We don't teach Eugenics in school as far as I'm aware ;). Morality has fuck all to do with evolution. If you think kids need moral guidance in a biology class then that's a whole other thread.
When I began studying Biology at school we DID cover the "problems" of Evolution. My 2 Biology A-Level teachers (until my Degree) were both the sort of true scientists who did discuss the topic liberally and from all angles. I had a thorough introduction and grounding that served my degree very well thank you. We discussed issues (many have been decided now) from a scientific standpoint like adults - nothing was hidden or brushed under the carpet etc.
I would like to hear what is "shoved to the bottom" and what "negative effects" there are of teaching evolution.
Are YOU learning it right now at school? Have you ever? How is it that you know so much about how it is taught in schools? Why do you care so much?
Some front line views of the war against God.
So what you are saying is, you feel that evolution is flawed, and since they are teaching flawed science, it should be ok to teach another flawed theory?
If creationism can provide more evidence, and more to say for their theory then, "god did it", then sure, teach it. But you cant really teach something that says, if you dont understand it, then god did it.
Not to mention, seperation of church and state. If these religious groups want to promote teaching of their beliefs, then they can provide money for it themselves. The Government should not be providing them money to spread their beliefs unless they are providing equal money to every other religion and their belief on the creation of the world and everything else entailed. When they start teaching the Buddhist beliefs, and the Roman/Greek beliefs, and everything else, then I will be fine with the Christian view on all of this being taught as a possibility.
So until the government starts providing equal funds for all religious beliefs in regards to this subject, it should not be providing any funds to any of them. The state should not be promoting a "state religion", because that is discriminating against all other beliefs.
