How were you created?

1. So far as we are able to determine, every highly complex object with intricate moving parts is a product of intelligent design. (The only such objects whose ultimute origin we are sure about are artifacts designed by people.)

2. The universe is a highly complex object with intricate moving parts. (from observation)

Therefore,

3. Probably, the universe is a product of intelligent design. (from steps 1 and 2)

4. No one could design a universe but God (its a big job)

Therefore,

5.Probably, there is a God. (from steps 3 and 4)

The visible order of the universe proclaims a supreme intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

1. So far as we are able to determine, every highly complex object with intricate moving parts is a product of intelligent design. (The only such objects whose ultimute origin we are sure about are artifacts designed by people.)

2. The universe is a highly complex object with intricate moving parts. (from observation)

Therefore,

3. Probably, the universe is a product of intelligent design. (from steps 1 and 2)

4. No one could design a universe but God (its a big job)

Therefore,

5.Probably, there is a God. (from steps 3 and 4)

The visible order of the universe proclaims a supreme intelligence.

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Your logic train started at the station, and then crashed horrifically the second it left.

What if everything we see here, right now, was created by intelligent aliens? That would explain the intelligent design, and derail a portion of your arguement.

Essentially, it all comes back to, how did God come to be?

Its has been stated by some here, that there is no way that everything we see in life happened by random, its too complex, and there is too much of it to have just happened by chance. But then, the only being that would be able to create such a thing, well... we dont have to explain that one. We can just say it existed, with no explaination of what created it. Something infinitely more complex then everything we have seen or ever will see, by the definition you and others have given, doesnt need an explaination on how it was created... do you see the problem with the logic there?

What/Who created God? If everything we see here is intelligent design, and required an omnipotent omniprescent being to create it, what created such a being?

And personally, I think that believing in something because if you are right you get rewarded is a bunch of bullshit, to put it lightly. That goes against EVERYTHING that chrisitanity and other religions teach. Its not do good in your life for the chance of infinite candy, its do good for no other reason then to do good, and then you will get candy.

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

The existence of God is intelligible not because it was caused by anything or anyone, but because it flows from his essence. God cannot fail to exist. God exists necessarily. It is God's essential nature to exist. And in this regard, God is very different from anything in the universe. God's existence logically follows from God's essence.

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i believe the big bang theory

which means we evolved from a pool of bacteria and evolved over millions of years into smaller mammals and then so on

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

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What created gods essence?

We can play this game forever, but linking gods existance back to god itself doesnt work for this excercise, sorry.

What created WHATEVER it is that you have to explain gods existance?

Saying that he is required, or always existed, just cant work logically with all the conclusions you yourself made earlier about this universe. Something so complex, so amazing on every level, had to have been created by something, right? Well I cant think of anything, by definition, more amazing and complex then God, so what created him, since anything so complex and amazing had to have been created by something?

If god can just exist, why cant this universe just exist?

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Originally Posted by imitator

What created gods essence?

We can play this game forever, but linking gods existance back to god itself doesnt work for this excercise, sorry.

What created WHATEVER it is that you have to explain gods existance?

Saying that he is required, or always existed, just cant work logically with all the conclusions you yourself made earlier about this universe. Something so complex, so amazing on every level, had to have been created by something, right? Well I cant think of anything, by definition, more amazing and complex then God, so what created him, since anything so complex and amazing had to have been created by something?

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Exactly, saying that God is necessary is the same as saying the universe is necessary, or the atom is necessary.

You can play madlibs and make the same argument.

i believe my god created me...of course after my mom and dad did the nasty

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Originally Posted by water

i believe the big bang theory

which means we evolved from a pool of bacteria and evolved over millions of years into smaller mammals and then so on

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1. what started the big bang? what was there before hand?

2. have you read about the big bong yet?

I myself believe that the evidence for God lies primarily in inner personal experiances. It is the heart which experiances God, and not with reason.

1. Every being is either dependent or self-existent.

2. Not every being can be dependent

Thus,

3. There is a self-existent being.

Because of the principal of sufficient reasoning, step 1 rules out ther being anything that is explained by nothing. A dependent being is explained by something else. A self existent being is self explanitory, or necessary.

Step 2 results from this reasoning: If all beings were dependent, then there would be one positive fact--that these beings exist at all--that would have no explanation, and this is ruled out by PSR also; that fact can only be explained by a nondependent being, thus 2 is true.

And step 3 follows from 1 and 2. There is no reason to think that anything in the universe, or the total composed of these things, is self existent, thus there must be a GOd outside the system of dependent being who created them. The universe doesn't exist necessarily, it is not the universe's essence to exist. It's concept does not logically imply its reality in all sets of possible circumstances. And that is different from the concept of God as a greatest possible being.

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

1. Every being is either dependent or self-existent.

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Where did you get this from?

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

Step 2 results from this reasoning: If all beings were dependent, then there would be one positive fact--that these beings exist at all--that would have no explanation, and this is ruled out by PSR also; that fact can only be explained by a nondependent being, thus 2 is true.

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If a microscopic being comes into existence (chemical reaction maybe), it either eats or dies. Therefore it is entirely possible that dependant life is the first life

[quote=Reefer Rogue]There is no reason to think that anything in the universe, or the total composed of these things, is self existent, thus there must be a GOd outside the system of dependent being who created them. The universe doesn't exist necessarily, it is not the universe's essence to exist. It's concept does not logically imply its reality in all sets of possible circumstances. And that is different from the concept of God as a greatest possible being.[quote=Reefer Rogue]Where did you pull that from? Since when did you know the reason for the universe? Why doesn't every philosopher come to you for answers, since you know so much about the necessity, or lack thereof, of the universe?