Emmies Grow Log - White Widow

The preflowers are already there, I can see something there for sure, but I can't make out sex with the focus. ;)

They will look kinda like leaf formations, I can't find it now, but there was a thread I spotted on using a flashlight to backlight the node, female flowers look like little triangles, males little spots,.... and that's basically even before they are really visible.

Figured I'd toss this pic in just to help,.... You've probably already seen it.
and a couple from tonight, My White Widow Scrog was felled tonight with the help of a couple of my patients trimming only took 2 hours! :pimp:

(Sorry for the crummy Cell phone pics, camera's batteries are dead and we didn't have more! :eek: :( )

Pic 1: ID on preflowers.
Pic 2: before trimming.
Pic 3: 650g waiting to be hung for dry! :rastasmoke:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canniwhatsis

The preflowers are already there, I can see something there for sure, but I can't make out sex with the focus. ;)

They will look kinda like leaf formations, I can't find it now, but there was a thread I spotted on using a flashlight to backlight the node, female flowers look like little triangles, males little spots,.... and that's basically even before they are really visible.

---

I have a couple of threads I like a lot... the one you probably mean is this one: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-gr...ml#post2165560
and this one also deserves a good look: http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...cognition.html

I got in there and looked real good this evening. I am pretty sure that I saw a perfect example of a male part, all hanging down and being obnoxious on its own little stalk. The one I found it on is going to amaze my readers so I want to look again tomorrow in better light, just to be sure. Another might be showing me an early male part... but again, a better look and an overnight period might be what is needed to make it clear. I think I am seeing calyx's and even a couple of young single pistils on one of the others, and clearly a first sighting of a double pistil on the last one, again with a surprise for the followers of our little journey in this thread as to which one is showing off her girl parts to us. I will wait till I am sure about this though... stay tuned! It is going to cause a ruckus! ;)

Emmie

Yep! that's the thread I was thinkin about! ;)


You've got it down pretty well, I'm looking forward to seeing these girls(and boy's) go thru flower! (I'd keep one male and flower him in a separate area for pollen, then breed your own seeds so you don't have to buy them again ;) it's what I did with my WW grow :D )



Sorry about the harvest pics demihyjack,... I wasn't loggin that grow, but figured you might enjoy seeing what you can look forward to if you scrog this strain since you've been setting up for it. :stoned:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canniwhatsis

Yep! that's the thread I was thinkin about! ;)


You've got it down pretty well, I'm looking forward to seeing these girls(and boy's) go thru flower! (I'd keep one male and flower him in a separate area for pollen, then breed your own seeds so you don't have to buy them again ;) it's what I did with my WW grow :D )



Sorry about the harvest pics demihyjack,... I wasn't loggin that grow, but figured you might enjoy seeing what you can look forward to if you scrog this strain since you've been setting up for it. :stoned:

---

Thats exactly my plan... grab some pollen in the other tent, and then convert a couple of branches of the girls to seed production. Need to save those seeds for a rainy day and then work from clones for a while as well as experiment with a couple of other strains. It is definitely going to be an interesting summer around here.

yeah, your harvest made me drool. what was that, about 3-4 ounces dry?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

yeah, your harvest made me drool. what was that, about 3-4 ounces dry?

---

650 grams, 22.9 oz, 1.4 pounds wet :pimp: ....

I figure I'll loose 75% of that weight,.... so 5-6 oz dry/de-stemmed... that's guessing on my previous grows of other strains.




Be really careful with flowering a male,... it's a wind pollenated plant (which you already know) but the pollen will stick to YOU and the female flowers (pistils) will more than willingly grab the pollen off of you!!!! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

:postgood:

I like it! Its time to learn something new! I am going to get out my loupe and a flashlight today and see what I can see. I need a better camera to get in close.. anyone have any good recommendations for <$200? I'm thinkin Ebay...

At some point they are going to start showing pre-flowers, correct? And that is what I am looking for today. So far I have not been able to see any that didn't look already like leaves... but I will get real close.
:admin1:

Emmie

---

overstock.com for cameras. that is where I got mine, if if something goes wrong, they replace with no problems. :thumbsup:

As far as advice on cameras, a good one can be had for around $100. If you look at the pictures in my albums, all of them were taken with a point and click Canon. Just make sure you have a macro setting available to get good crystal shots.

The trichrome album shots were taken with a $60 usb microscope which IMHO has been the best investment one can make to determine ripeness beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Just my 2 cents :)

Good lookin grow! Lookin forward to seeing it finish:thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by irydyum

As far as advice on cameras, a good one can be had for around $100. If you look at the pictures in my albums, all of them were taken with a point and click Canon. Just make sure you have a macro setting available to get good crystal shots.

The trichrome album shots were taken with a $60 usb microscope which IMHO has been the best investment one can make to determine ripeness beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Just my 2 cents :)

Good lookin grow! Lookin forward to seeing it finish:thumbsup:

---

What USB microscope is the next question?!? And is it MAC friendly?..... Again sorry Emmy for the jack... :o

I don't think you need a new camera to get these. Just take a regular photo like you have been and zoom in with the computer program. You sound like you may have proven my theory is Kaput, but best folks know I am full of it. Save some money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

I don't think you need a new camera to get these. Just take a regular photo like you have been and zoom in with the computer program. You sound like you may have proven my theory is Kaput, but best folks know I am full of it. Save some money.

---

Ok... here is the best I can do with Vivitar technology. I am pretty sure this is showing us that #4, the runt... is a boy.
:chainsaw:

theory Kaput? No. There are 2 big factors here that very well could have skewed the results.

• First, #4 was stressed from the very start. He was a J root when "dummy me" plopped him in the dirt upside down. :upsidedow
• The second factor is that I am an inexperienced grower. Not only did I stress these plants from the very beginning, I kept terrorizing them throughout at least the first half of their lives. It is possible that I took a perfectly good little girl and scared her so badly that she switched sides. :eek:

More experimentation is needed.

Here are the pictures... please discuss. I am here to learn.
Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

#4 was stressed from the very start. He was a J root when "dummy me" plopped him in the dirt upside down. :upsidedow[*]The second factor is that I am an inexperienced grower. Not only did I stress these plants from the very beginning, I kept terrorizing them throughout at least the first half of their lives. It is possible that I took a perfectly good little girl and scared her so badly that she switched sides. :eek:[/LIST]
More experimentation is needed.

Here are the pictures... please discuss. I am here to learn.
Emmie

---

Just one growers opinion, but I don't think anything you did actually caused it to be a male. Possibility I suppose that you could have influenced the outcome, but typically when people talk about stressing plants into becoming male it's on a plant that had already shown itself to be female.

Odds on this one are that it was a male from the very start. IMHO, looks to be a happy healthy male to me too. It doesn't look to me like you stressed it all that much.

In my experience putting seeds in dirt with taproot down is a wives tale. Maybe it causes them to emerge from soil a day later than they would have, or possibly may cause underground entanglement of roots or something crazy to that effect, but I have put plenty of seeds into dirt haphazardly and never had any issue with it. Thankfully MJ DNA recognizes gravity and automatically grows in the opposite direction for us:thumbsup:

We have another confirmed sexing and a correct assumption using the coloring method...

#2 has been spotted sporting a new double pistil on one of her upper internodes today! It's a girl! There is no way I can get my camera to show you this... but soon... very soon.

The new camera with the micro mode... with 18x optical zoom and focus down to 3mm... the very good buy on ebay... my new fujifilm digital camera is on its way. Check this out... Fujifilm FinePix S2800 14 MP 3.0 LCD Digital Camera | BeachCamera.com For $179.00 not bad at all. Emmie will soon be known far and wide as a the girl with the great camera, but with absolutely no concept of how to frame a good shot or set a white balance.

These are the trials and tribulations we all must face I guess, each in our own way. I truly hope yours are not as debilitating.

Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

The new camera with the micro mode... with 18x optical zoom and focus down to 3mm... the very good buy on ebay... my new fujifilm digital camera is on its way. Check this out... Fujifilm FinePix S2800 14 MP 3.0 LCD Digital Camera | BeachCamera.com For $179.00 not bad at all. Emmie will soon be known far and wide as a the girl with the great camera, but with absolutely no concept of how to frame a good shot or set a white balance.

These are the trials and tribulations we all must face I guess, each in our own way. I truly hope yours are not as debilitating.

Emmie

---

:S2:


Your not the only one to go thru those pains of learning a new device,....

I hate my camera,... $500 bux shoots great vids, and AWESOME detail in every other kind of pic I want to take,... but take a pic of a bud,... out of focus, sorry. :mad:

Ok so not really that bad, but I erase 75% of the bud shots I take:(


So maybe i'm wacked,.... but your sexing thing IS working out? The last pics you posted are male, Keep him to breed your own seeds.

But was "HE" suspected or not? Your last post made it sound like the girl wasn't a surprise at all.

Cripes Emmi No 4 is a twisty in the story thus far. Oh well instead of 'she's a pretty girl' its 'he's a little stud'. A nice plant either way and I also doubt it was anything you did to make 'her' a 'him'.

My last camera was a Fuji Finepix and I loved it but unfortunately the Finepix didn't love the Fine sand that blew all into the insides and stuffed it up. Takes time to get the hang of a new camera but if the new version is as good as the older ones then you'll get some great photos.

Canni it was No 4 who had earlier been the smaller one and suspected of being a little girl but now is displaying his family jewels.
Then there is also No 2 who was all along suspected of being a girl - and so she is.
I think that's right.... and the plot thickens as there's still the other 2 plants.

wow,..... smoked a little of the "Quick dry" box last night,.... I now know why this stuff is such a legend. 1 hit and my lightweight self was out of it. :bonghit: :stoned:

I'm excited that you've got at least 1 girl and hoping that you'll turn out more!

Looking forward to flowering! :hippy:

I think they could have been stressed enough to go male, who knows. It is only a theory. I am glad you got at least one female Emmie. That is what is truly important, not proving my theory right or wrong.... If the seed appearance thing works, that might be better anyway and I am experimenting with sprouting and identifying sex, not necessarily growing out, just experimenting. Not enough data yet to know with any confidence any truths.

EDIT: By the way, note how the red is so brilliant and it goes all the way around the leaf petiole? Might be a slight nute deficiency there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

I think they could have been stressed enough to go male, who knows. It is only a theory. I am glad you got at least one female Emmie. That is what is truly important, not proving my theory right or wrong.... If the seed appearance thing works, that might be better anyway and I am experimenting with sprouting and identifying sex, not necessarily growing out, just experimenting. Not enough data yet to know with any confidence any truths.

EDIT: By the way, note how the red is so brilliant and it goes all the way around the leaf petiole? Might be a slight nute deficiency there.

---

I'm thinking you are right WW. I am noticing a bit of yellowing all of a sudden today. My order of the FoxFarms trio should be here tomorrow... I will hit them on the next watering. As far as the red, do you mean there on the top down picture?

Finished up the second tent's ventilation today and moved #4 to his new digs. I am waiting to see what happens and then will pick the best male to produce some pollen to bring back to my female very carefully. I will probably put the lucky winner into flower very soon and collect the pollen for later when the female(s) are ready. As fast as #4 matured makes him a strong contender for that spot already.

I looked and looked at our 2 remaining and could not decide one way or the other. I think that #1 is about ready to show, and I am betting that this is going to be another boy... I think I am seeing one starting to form on a stalk and think I might see some clustering... I am watching...

#3 is the one I am most confused about. Keep in mind this is the one that looked different than the rest all along. It seems to be a lot further away from maturity than the rest and there are just a few sites starting to develop that will indicate sex. Still waiting on the new camera to be able to get a better look at it.

I figure we are still several weeks from going to flower, but I might be surprised yet again. Several tasks are ahead for the girl(s) in the crowd including re-potting, cloning, FIM and starting to train on the SCRog screen as we recover from all this attention and start growing again.

Right now, the 3 still in the main tent are standing at about 9".

Someone make the snow stop here in the midwest... this is quite enough.

Emmie

No the second and third pictures. First one looks awesome.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but it seems early to have any show.....to me......

Yellowing could be lack of water.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

No the second and third pictures. First one looks awesome.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but it seems early to have any show.....to me......

Yellowing could be lack of water.

---

Watered last night, so we will see. I am seeing other signs of nute deficiency now in #1 again. He seems very sensitive. He is exhibiting slight yellowing on some of the fan leaves and a bit of a copper leaf tips indicators starting up. I am debating just putting the girl in a 3gal pot and new soil when she drys out next or hitting her with the first round of nutes. I'm leaning toward the soil idea... I have a brand new bag of FFOF ready to deploy.

Regarding sexing and being too early: I think what I am starting to understand here is that if one looks carefully, it is pretty apparent when looking at a mature plant which sex it is. The problem is that they don't all get to this point of maturity at the same time. My number 3 is one of those late bloomers and without forcing it to show us sex with various tricks, its just a waiting game. Good optics are going to give me a further edge in this area and give me another several day jump ahead of what I could have done with my naked eyes. My point here is that as a brand new grower, I was under the assumption that this sexing thing was something hard to do and that it was imperative that I learned to do the flashlight method or fooling a branch into thinking it was in 12/12, some method to allow me to find out the sex as early as possible.

Here in the real world where I tend to live, I have learned that if one isn't trying to artificially hurry the process of going into flower, there will be plenty of time to see the sex. I can see reasons that one would want to know sex early in some mass production situations, but for someone planning to take the veg into maturity to go for maximum yield from each single plant, chill... sit back... be vigilant... but don't sweat it... sex happens. :thumbsup:

Emmie

some good reading on a winter's day...enjoy

Mandala Seeds FAQ's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

some good reading on a winter's day...enjoy

Mandala Seeds FAQ's

---

:postgood:

Thanks DP! I learned a bit more reading through that. Fascinating stuff here. WW might be correct in his opinion that it is a bit early to be "showing" just yet and Mandala's site taught me that given stress, a female plant can pop off a male part or two... hmmmm

could this be what is happening on our runt? Could (she) have been impersonating a he, and actually is a she? Seeing no other signs of sex yet other than these two random male parts, maybe it is a bit early yet to be for sure. I am becoming more sure about 1 and 2 who both seem to be doing a whole lot of whatever it is they are doing... #4 seems like a sort of anomaly compared to them. And then there is #3 who seems to be shy... and still isn't being very declarative regarding sex, further adding credence to what WW says about it being a bit early.

This is fun! --Emmie

I got a new toy from the FedEx man today. See if you can figure out what it was.

Today we have some sex shots. Its time to clear up the mystery on 1, 2 and our star... the yet to be identified, runt - #4.

Lets start with a picture of him from a new angle.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...ng-parts-1.jpg

and more convincingly, look at what he is sporting now in the upper node
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...ng-parts-2.jpg

So, I think its pretty certain now. The runt is a boy.

Speaking of bad boys... lets look at our first star, #1... the fastest grower and the cutest bright green all over. I think when he was young WW said he was very sure about this one. Lets look at some of his top growth. I'm more convinced by the hour that this one is another healthy boy.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...s-clusters.jpg

Now lets look at my personal favorite, #2. Always she was right behind #1 in growth and appearance. But lately, I have noticed a bit of a difference here. See if you can see it. ;) That's a double pistil... she has a couple of single ones down lower. It's a girl folks!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...en-spotted.jpg

I haven't been able to get in and interrogate #3 yet. There is not much to see yet, maybe a bit of growth similar to what we see on #1 starting... another few days will tell.

By the way... Kudos to FedEx. 9 inches of snow last night and he still made it almost all the way to the door. I was impressed.

Emmie

Your family looks good! :thumbsup: Tough luck with all the males, the one almost looks like a hermie :wtf:

Clone your girl when she's big enough for sure! :greenthumb:




P.S.
FedEx Sux! :p (only because I drive for Big Brown ;) ) 9" what a wuss I was doin the same thing last night.... Cake walk, should have been here in colorado for the "Christmas Blizzard" a couple years ago,.... Like 2 feet in the first one,.. then another a week later,.... then another like 2 weeks after that! :eek: The ice was almost a foot thick in some of the neighborhoods on my route. Several times I spent HOURS digging that truck out WITH full chains on! :o

Ok,.. Rant off, sorry :o

This morning before I head off to school I will let you see what I am seeing on #3. It isn't much, but it is enough to strongly indicate that this one is also a boy. We will keep watching, but please note the stamen flower sitting on its own little stalk there.

By the way, this is almost a total proof that the early sexing method offered to us by WashougalWonder works! I will be watching as more growers attempt to prove this theory.

Have a great day everyone!

Emmie

What a fascinating result with the sexing. Next time I get some seeds I'll be sure to watch them grow with WW's theory in mind, I think it offers very exciting possibilities for early sexing. It sure has added an extra interesting dimension to your log Emmie.

Canni how would you feel about moving to the Netherlands?! Could do with you here. I've been waiting all week for my lights to come from a city only 2 hours away - and there's no damn ice in the way either. So much for one day delivery grrr.

Hmmm...I think I have a couple of issues, so what the heck...I might as well get 'em off my chest. :thumbsup:

If the seed-sexing theory is right, this implies that sex is pre-determined.
And if you can stress a female seedling into being male, why don't more newbies suffer from 'over-abundance of males' syndrome'? But, I'm not all that certain the seed-sexing thing is on track anyway.
Granted, I have not tried the technique, but am of the opinion it's likely not reliable. Mainly because during formation, seeds can get squeezed together, pulled, pushed, tugged-on...which can and will distort the attachment point for each seed. I've had seeds long and thin, round and plump, round with a dent or two, almost 'cresent moon' shaped...all from the same strains. Any distortion of the shell does impact the attachment point structure.

And having femmed seeds a few times, (and I still do on occasion) I have never stressed a female into being a male. I've stressed a female to provide pollen sacks, (become hermaphrodite on command) and after harvest I've re-vegged a forced hermaphrodite back into 'normal' female re-growth, but never has stress switched a cannabis plant's sex, in my garden. Since I doubt you change the (sex determing) chromosomes through stress, a sudden and wholesale sex change is unlikely, and nobody has added chemicals to the discussion.

Beware of strains with past or present 'purple' genetics when using the color-coded seedling-sexing, as the normal coloring of the seedling might skew results.
I'm guessing that cooler growroom enviornments might skew coloring, too.

As I previously stated, I haven't tried the seed-sexing. But it just didn't sound right when I first heard it a few years back, and I still have doubts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Hmmm...I think I have a couple of issues, so what the heck...I might as well get 'em off my chest. :thumbsup:

If the seed-sexing theory is right, this implies that sex is pre-determined.
And if you can stress a female seedling into being male, why don't more newbies suffer from 'over-abundance of males' syndrome'? But, I'm not all that certain the seed-sexing thing is on track anyway.
Granted, I have not tried the technique, but am of the opinion it's likely not reliable. Mainly because during formation, seeds can get squeezed together, pulled, pushed, tugged-on...which can and will distort the attachment point for each seed. I've had seeds long and thin, round and plump, round with a dent or two, almost 'cresent moon' shaped...all from the same strains. Any distortion of the shell does impact the attachment point structure.

And having femmed seeds a few times, (and I still do on occasion) I have never stressed a female into being a male. I've stressed a female to provide pollen sacks, (become hermaphrodite on command) and after harvest I've re-vegged a forced hermaphrodite back into 'normal' female re-growth, but never has stress switched a cannabis plant's sex, in my garden. Since I doubt you change the (sex determing) chromosomes through stress, a sudden and wholesale sex change is unlikely, and nobody has added chemicals to the discussion.

Beware of strains with past or present 'purple' genetics when using the color-coded seedling-sexing, as the normal coloring of the seedling might skew results.
I'm guessing that cooler growroom enviornments might skew coloring, too.

As I previously stated, I haven't tried the seed-sexing. But it just didn't sound right when I first heard it a few years back, and I still have doubts.

---

just to clear up any confusion...

I did not use the seed shape or examination of the stalk hole (volcano or slit) to determine sex here.
All I used was on day 6, making a guess as to sex based on the color of the stalks and petioles of the seedlings. :rastabanna:

Further experimentation is now needed to see if this method actually got us a 100% identification. The question has to do with #4. According to WW's theory, #4 was the one who exhibited the strongest indicator at day 6 of being female. He was however stunted all of his life and I strongly believe that it was this stress that caused him to become a male. We have referred to him all along as "the runt." There are plenty of opinions out there that stress can and will cause a higher percentage of males in a population. If this is what happened, then clones of #4 grown correctly will not be males and we will have proven that the early sexing method at least in this case resulted in 100% identification. It will also show that sex can change overall because of stress. I will be taking clones to attempt to prove this very soon. You have me very curious now Rusty about this and how total of a transformation can be made by a plant because of stress, but I agree that on a chromosome level, if she started as a female, #4 would still be a female although exhibiting male characteristics... and if so, she/he has just become a very valuable plant. It would be fascinating to get him to change again after harvest and revegging and make him go female next round, but I am going to save that for another experimenter. Who knows? Cloning may prove that #4 was a male all along. In a couple of months, if I have any shred of scientist in me, we will know what happened here.

The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!:thumbsup:

Emmie

Figured I'd throw the seed-sexing thing as a bonus, since they are both yet-unproven techniques mentioned in this thread.
Kudo's to WW for thinking outside the box though.

I'm fairly confident that genetic expression of sex is likely pre-determined at the moment of pollination. (that's how we know the femmed seeds have to be female, no?)
No matter what the stressor, (unless chemical) you are not likely to change the chromosomes (which control sexual expression) through overwatering, overfeeding, cooling, heating...
Make a hermaphrodite...sure. Actually change sexes...? I don't think so.

A (verified and confirmed) female can be stressed to produce male-type flowers. Some call them male nanners, but this is wrong. They are female nanners. (nanners on a female plant) There are no male chromosomes in the pollen. Any female plant you pollinate with this pollen will have femmed seeds. This means the offspring from that pollen will all be 100% female. The lady plant you get the pollen from hasn't switched sexes, she's altered her 'genetic sexual expression' as a result of the stress. (being an annual, it's a survival technique cannabis uses to assure the continuing of the species)

I think you're putting the cart before the horse though. Learn to grow, THEN learn to breed. :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

I think you're putting the cart before the horse though. Learn to grow, THEN learn to breed.

---

I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:

I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:

A cart with no horse indeed? It seems that for me to keep growing I need to learn to clone and make seeds since I can't afford to keep buying seeds from other people. I guess since I am a newbie I have to allow you to chide me for discussing genetics and the possibilities of feminized seeds resulting from my work here, but I certainly don't have to like it. You don't know me very well, but I will let you in on a secret... I am capable of learning quite a few things, all at the same time. I am also going to never be shy about asking a question to help me do this.

I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.

Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:

I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:

A cart with no horse indeed? It seems that for me to keep growing I need to learn to clone and make seeds since I can't afford to keep buying seeds from other people. I guess since I am a newbie I have to allow you to chide me for discussing genetics and the possibilities of feminized seeds resulting from my work here, but I certainly don't have to like it. You don't know me very well, but I will let you in on a secret... I am capable of learning quite a few things, all at the same time. I am also going to never be shy about asking a question to help me do this.

I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.

Emmie

---

Not many lady growers, and the only bad question is the one unasked. :thumbsup:

Reading Emmie's log is one of the fun parts of my day. Its so refreshing to read from a new grower that is interested in the science of growing, the compexities of genetics and has the enthusiasm/intelligence to absorb what she reads and put it into action.
Such a change from newbie questions of: how many hundreds of plants can I grow under 1000's W lights, or how many onzes can I get from a plant under a 30W bulb.

Emmie, personally I think #4 is/has been male all the way....it always looked different than the others. I do not think it will be a source to get feminized seeds. Remember a theory only becomes fact after thousands of tests, and so far you are the only one who has bothered to test the theory.

Actually I am glad Rusty questions the theory. That is what makes this forum so good. I question my own theory. Still do even after all this, as I have some unpublished info I am still working on showing me it may be just a fluke or strain related.

I pick my best plant out of a set of seeds and only continue that one plant with cloning. In the beginning, that means you have to be able to identify each individual. Once harvested and cured, then you know which is the best albeit for the growth pattern and type of effect from the plant that you prefer. Then you toss all the rest and just keep cloning. You want seeds, you stress it with light and get some pollen and make your seeds.

Ya nothing wrong with asking about other stuff to learn, it all adds up eventually and comes together in a nice package.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:

I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:

---

It wasn't the statement that made you respond...it was your opinion of the content that made you answer. Again...learn the basics, then learn the advanced. You can't learn trigonometry till you learn to add. You can't tune the engine till you know where the hell the engine block is, and you can't optimize your results until you know the basics. You are inexperienced and as such your assumptions have been off base.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.
Emmie

---

Apparently you only value the experience and knowledge, if the responder blows smoke up your butt telling you what a fine job you're doing. I'm not that kind of guy. And did you make-up the part where I said not to ask questions...or is that just you making shit up as you go along...? :wtf:

If you wish to attempt breeding, go for it. You might just pull it off. But if you are unfamiliar with troubleshooting techniques, (or proper watering techniques, or nutrients and their schedules...) you are putting the cart before the horse.

Also, when you make statements like the one I highlighted below, I fell the resultant anger from you is misguided. You haven't a clue yet as to the difficulties of proper breeding and you have no idea the heartache of screwing-up your genetics. Which, by the way, can cost you more than a couple of months of heartache because all of a sudden your seedlings aren't growing right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

just to clear up any confusion...

The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!:thumbsup:

Emmie

---

Not only can you screw-up this grow, you can screw-up successive seed genetics.
I have never said you (or anyone else on CanCom) couldn't ask questions. It wasn't a question that caught my eye here, it was your statement above that threw-up a big, red flag.

Any moron can apply pollen to a pistil. Hell, it doesn't even take a moron...But it takes time and a knowledge of your plants to keep from risking fatal errors. This is why I think you should allow yourself more experience before you screw yourself out of a successful learning experience.
Be careful throwing pollen around and operating under the assumption that that's all there is to breeding. Your yields and your genetics will suffer.

Instead of getting your panties in a wad...had you asked...most any gardener in here would likely guide you through the first attempt or two at breeding...but it looks like you've got a handle on things and you can "ego" your way through the fog of ignorance. Good luck with that. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

Emmie, personally I think #4 is/has been male all the way....it always looked different than the others. I do not think it will be a source to get feminized seeds. Remember a theory only becomes fact after thousands of tests, and so far you are the only one who has bothered to test the theory.

Actually I am glad Rusty questions the theory. That is what makes this forum so good. I question my own theory. Still do even after all this, as I have some unpublished info I am still working on showing me it may be just a fluke or strain related.

I pick my best plant out of a set of seeds and only continue that one plant with cloning. In the beginning, that means you have to be able to identify each individual. Once harvested and cured, then you know which is the best albeit for the growth pattern and type of effect from the plant that you prefer. Then you toss all the rest and just keep cloning. You want seeds, you stress it with light and get some pollen and make your seeds.

Ya nothing wrong with asking about other stuff to learn, it all adds up eventually and comes together in a nice package.

---

Thank you WW. It is a new day. It has stopped snowing and it might just melt enough to allow me to get to school on Monday. I am in a much better mood.

Here I sit looking around at the couple of thousand $$'s of stuff I have put together to grow my garden. At the moment, in the middle of this two tent laboratory of growing I have 4 plants. It looks like I have 1 female and 3 males. I have lots of space and equipment, a curious mind, and essentially one active plant. I need a project, and my intensely curious mind tends to find them. So I ask questions. I reach out and I grow. I learn.

I still go back to three things here. I feel confident that I might be able to find some lab room and available time to be able to follow through with the experiment. We start by following up the loose ends we have created in our original experiment to prove that early sexing by color works. I feel that already this theory has proven itself to me, but there are a few questions that have been raised.

• First, out of 4 plants, I got 3 males. This is outside the normal curve and makes me start to wonder if I have become part of the experiment. I know that this bad luck happens (and bet that it happens a lot to new growers)... but still, it makes me wonder.
• The second thing is that #4 according to your theory, was clearly the best representative of what a female should have looked like. She was a beautiful deep red all along the main stem and was one of them you felt confident about, or at least as much as you could through a picture.
  
• And the third thing is that for whatever reason, #4 was stunted all along and all of the stress on this poor plant could have caused a transformation in sexual expression. Not likely... but the theory is there that it could happen.

These three things tell my logical mind that there is a chance... however slight, that #4 genetically is a female.

It's not going to be that hard to find out if this is true by keeping the experiment going a bit longer. As an added benefit, Emmie learns to clone, practices keeping good records and notes on the grow, gets to use all this fancy equipment laying around here, and best of all... continues to get all you old experts talking to her about growing stuff. It don't get better than this.

Big hugs... everyone have a great day!
Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

I have never said you (or anyone else on CanCom) couldn't ask questions. It wasn't a question that caught my eye here, it was your statement above that threw-up a big, red flag.

---

Just what was I stating?
I quote myself:

The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!

I see here 2 statements, and a question. I'm not sure which statement you are upset with.

If it is instead the question that you are having issues with, please stop yelling at me about my attempts to do breeding and explain. I see lots of warnings and statements as to my competence and personality, but I see nothing to answer my original question.

Rusty... I want to be friends. I am not trying to be egotistical or think that I can do this alone. I make wrong assumptions because I am new... and I do it in public on this forum because I am inviting experts like you to come in and teach me. (and those who read this thread in the future) I want you to embrace my curiosity, and help me to learn... not tell me and all the future readers that they are not worthy somehow because of their inexperience to think beyond the box. Yes, experience is the greatest teacher, but please, don't think that all newcomers are the same. Some of us have the time, money and intelligence to actually become great at this. I would love to proudly exclaim that it was you who was one of my greatest teachers if I ever do get good at this.

Emmie

everybody play nice..:)...look!..over there...puppies...:jointsmile:

Squirrel!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tikiroom

Squirrel!

---

Talk abut Up a Tree without a nut! Run Squirrel,Run!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GaGrown

Talk abut Up a Tree without a nut! Run Squirrel,Run!

---

where?...where?...no place to run

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

where?...where?...no place to run

---

That Damn possum looks like he'd eat a squirrel..