UVb an experiment

Mac... I googled your halogen inc's, with candelabra bases... They look differently then what I am using... Here is a home depot link.. I have seen these bulbs at other locations also.. GE Reveal 100-Watt Halogen 2-Year Life General Purpose A19 (1 Pack) - 100ACL/H/RVL-TP6 at The Home Depot ..... If you look closely at the inside of the one I'm showing you here.. You will see it's a glass element inside with gas, a little different then the one I googled with the candelabra bases.. I would try the ones I'm showing you here.. Only $5 if you can afford them...

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Originally Posted by oldmac

The ultimate test will be if I try it with some cancer weed I've been growing called "apricot". It does not produce trichomes on it's leaves no matter what I've tried with it.

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Just like you said in an earlier post... I also believe Trichome production is dependant on the strain. I have been working on a few strains that don't produce trichomes very well at all also.. When we put those strains into our halogen filled flower room it only increased them maybe 10% at best.. So it's basically a 5% to 10% increase on those none trich producing strains BUT the trichs are much more defined... On a good trich producing strain they will explode big time plus they will be covered all the way down to the last bottom popcorn bud at the base of the plant..... That's how I can tell if I'm using enough halogen in the mix...LOL ......BUT and this is a big BUT.. Any strain we put into that halogen filled flower room is done two weeks faster then the sister room that has only a 400 HPS. It's also about SPEED....:thumbsup:

Dogznova,
Do you have a feel for a baseline starting point for coverage per (say) square meter? In other words would 2bulbs, for example, be a good starting point for a sqaure meter growing canopy?

M.P.

Sorry..... I hope I didn't cause any confusion. In case I didn't say this before....Halogen bulbs are only used as supplemental lighting.... I only know how to figure it out based on how many watts of light you currently are using in your set up.. I think 1/2 of a watt per watt used of CFL,LED,T5, is a great starting point. A good example would be..... 200 watts of CFL's or LED's or T5's mixed with one of those 100 watt halogen bulbs from above. Just remember those bulbs will cause stretch in your first two weeks of flowering.. We use a small amount.... 40 watts per 400 watts in the first two weeks of flowering. If your concerned about stretch...... It's best to not use halogens during your first two weeks of flowering. We use a small amount just to get the speed = (clock) going from the start of flowering.. Once the stretch phase is over you can adjust the wattage based on your liking. But anything over a 1 to 1 watt ratio is a waste...

Hey Dogz,

Thanks for the bulb link, I think I can afford $5/bulb, it's that extra electric that I can't afford.:D

Good point about stretching, even red party bulbs do that in early flower.
It may be awhile till I get to try them, but try them I will.
Thanx again.:)

Aloha, O. M.

Might want to start a Lights budget now.

This Halloween, Salmayo has been promising revealations of the Martian method.
Sounds too good to be true, but I'm keepin' an open mind about it.:hippy:

Guy's got wit!:D And class.
If it's all a hoax, it's a good one.:thumbsup:

I use halogens in the same manner that I was using UVB.. Just as supplemental lighting.. Martian Method is a whole nother beast..:thumbsup:


That's the only reason I was brining it up to MAC in this tread... UVB is kind of dangerous and you can take a bath under those halogens and get better results IMO...:thumbsup:

No problem Dogznova,I understood you the first time, I'm looking to supplimet 300watts LED in 1 square meter.

I bulb should do it for me....

Thanks again.
M.P.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dogznova

I use halogens in the same manner that I was using UVB.. Just as supplemental lighting.. Martin Method is a whole nother beast..:thumbsup:


That's the only reason I was brining it up to MAC in this tread...

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Got dat.

You've notice how fast he gets things, yah?
MM will set his ass on fire!
And we get to watch.:cool:

Mahalo Dogztar

Weeze

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Originally Posted by MerryPrankstr

No problem Dogznova,I understood you the first time, I'm looking to supplimet 300watts LED in 1 square meter.

I bulb should do it for me..

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Yes.... One bulb should work good.. Post your results..:thumbsup:

Weez.. I can't seem to get a hold of sal... Hope he's not on fire yet :D...
Two weeks till Halloween.... :thumbsup:

Dogznova, will do in my grow log.
M.P.

i know this is a silly question, forgive my ignorance, but will a coated halogen work? it says the coating just reduces glare. it's a 150W that puts out 2360 lumens or some such shit. thanks for pushing the envelope guys and gals......and your little brother just wants to tag along!


-shake

Shake.....I've been told not go with coated inc bulbs of any kind... I only use clear inc's or clear halogens inc's. Clear halogens are better then standard clear inc's IMO....... BUT standard clear inc's will do the trick also.
It just seem my uncle and I have to use slightly more standard clear inc's then clear halogen inc's to do the same trick... Hope that helps ya.:thumbsup:

thanks for the info Dog! i didn't really want to get the bulb but it was the only one they had. i'll be heading into town later and will re-turn it for and find a clear one.

thanks again!


-shake

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Originally Posted by Weezard

Aloha, O. M.

Might want to start a Lights budget now.

This Halloween, Salmayo has been promising revealations of the Martian method.
Sounds too good to be true, but I'm keepin' an open mind about it.:hippy:

Guy's got wit!:D And class.
If it's all a hoax, it's a good one.:thumbsup:

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Actually Weez I've already started the budget for a new DIY LED light. Been looking at heat sink material in 4' lenghts, thinking I'd like to get away from a brick design and spread the light out. Plus I think the LedEngine's 660nm 5w diodes are the way to go, coupled with some blue Cree's and a few hi-power whites to be determined.:D

I admit some skeptism about Martian Nights Method, but followed the thread about it. I'm very intrested in it, especially the various speeds that various wavelenghts have. While I still don't fully understand it, I'm determined to noodle it out. The way I see it, even if the method is not for me, I could apply some of the light information into something I could use. If that makes scence.

Sorry shake... The coated ones will cause too much stretching.. It's best to get the correct ones...:thumbsup:

Hey Dogz,

I'm going to try a clear halogen in the new aero/fog LED setup I'm in the process of putting together. Figured I'd get a preview of what the bulb adds while I'm waiting for my personal grow to finish this run. When that happens I'll switch out the UVb setup for a pair of halogens, then I can get a back to back observation of the UVb vs the halogens.:)

And thanks again for the input. If I can get similar results using a safer method that would be a big plus.

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Originally Posted by oldmac

And thanks again for the input. If I can get similar results using a safer method that would be a big plus.

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I belive you will get better results then the uvb bulb... We got much better results.

But then again we have no LED's in our mix.. I can't wait to see your results..:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Hi Apollonia,

Glad you stopped by here. I, like you are about to do, use UVb for a few hours in the middle of the photoperiod and only during flowering. RustyTrichome had gotten the idea from someone he trusted, that the use of UVB should start during flowering. Unfortunitly he could not carry on the experiment for personal reasons. I was just wondering if you would be interested in enlisting with an experiment? We are not doing anything real fancy here, more like with and w/o and simple observations. I've been trying to figure out a way to do it, but since I veg for so short it makes it difficult.
Need not be side to side comparo's can be back to back runs of something(s). Need not start immediately, I know you're busy with your grow start up now, but we will be here for awhile. And it will take a long time, so sometimes we just hang out on the porch.....and watch the grass grow.:)

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I'd love to participate in an experiment - I'm honored you would ask. :) Just tell me what you need from me & I'll start to make that happen. I've been reading (& re-reading) the OldMac, DreadedHermie & Weezard trifecta for a good long while & I've learned so much from all of you - I think the least I can do is pay you back some. I'm excited to hear what the experiment is. I'm doing my grow now, but I don't see why this can't be easily integrated into what I'm already doing - plus I like being busy :D & to have the chance to contribute usable data to the community, well that's an honor worth working for. Off Topic: I've just switched over to 12/12 on the mothers & have my UVB running 5 hours a day - bulbs are about 25" - 30" away from the plants. Update to my grow coming very soon.

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

I totally agree. Apollonia's work is very professional.

Internet identities being as they are, I'm not sure she's not 6'5" and named Sven, though...

Wait a second.

You know something, don't you.... :icon220:

You may be old, Mac. But I doubt you're "harmless." :thumbsup:

Yo' Fren,
Hermie :hippy:

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Aw shucks fellas, you're gonna make me turn red - and not from excessive UVB exposure! I can't tell you what praise from you all means to a newb like me. Plus you guys are a total trip!

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Originally Posted by Apollonia

Aw shucks fellas, you're gonna make me turn red - and not from excessive UVB exposure! I can't tell you what praise from you all means to a newb like me. Plus you guys are a total trip!

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Looks like you have a sence of humor too, which will come in handy here. You may be a newb, but you are one of the few that has done thier homework and has come here prepared. Besides we need someone who can ditlute the testesterone pool, we all seem to play nicer when in the company of a lady.:)

I was hoping to find someone who could do what RustyTrichome had started doing, try to use UVb from the begining of thier grow. Now Rusty was going to do a side by side, but for most of us that's out so a back to back run is fine. The object would be to run the UVb from clone to finish if possible, to see if the light used very early in growth effects trichome prodution.

Since you are currently using UVb durring flower, your observations right now and when you finish can be helpfull. And if you are willing to forego the UVb use for one flower cycle to see what the differences are that could be extremely usefull as well. That part could be a little costly in time and finish, as I found out (took 1 week longer and never got to amber trics) so nobody is going to push you to try that.

Let me know what you think, if any of it is possible for you. And welocome to the wonderfull world of experimenting.:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Apollonia

Aw shucks fellas, you're gonna make me turn red - and not from excessive UVB exposure! I can't tell you what praise from you all means to a newb like me. Plus you guys are a total trip!

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LMAO! that was a good one Ap!

there is a nice, solid core group of good people here.......we just happen to be a randomly eclectic bunch of heterogeneous bohemians! welcome aboard!

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Looks like you have a sence of humor too, which will come in handy here. You may be a newb, but you are one of the few that has done thier homework and has come here prepared. Besides we need someone who can ditlute the testesterone pool, we all seem to play nicer when in the company of a lady.:)

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the sense of humor is definitely good. i also agree with the dissertation that we need to dilute the testosterone pool too. and again, not to be a bobble head in agreance, but we all do play nice in the company of a lady.

on to more official business lol, i am still in for the mole-ass experiments, the halogen experiments and although i don't have a uvB bulb at the moment i can procure one shortly and will be willing to help with that too. the way my veg area is setup i can divide it directly in half with a sheet of cardboard and use the uvB on just one side (without adding more light or moving the current one for that matter). i could probably do the same for the flower chamber now that i think about it.

sorry for rambling, good meds! (and they were sampled early and quick dried in the oven!)


-shake

Hey Headshake,

I know you've wanted to play with UVb, so this could be a good chance. A side by side w/wo UVb from early would be great. Check out early in the thread what Rusty was doing, I believe he was using a small CFL reptile bulb. Something like that could be very informative.

I think the halogen bulb use we can run in conjunction with UVb use, but we need to get Weezard or you to start a mole-ass experiment thread going. Might be able to recruit some others to try experiments too.


Yo DreadedHermie,

I did know something....the moderating effect of a women on men's behavior. :D Even 'shake knows that!

ADDED: And Headshake, you need to get a vaproizer so you can taste that green stuff without doing the quick dry oven thing.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Hey Headshake,

I know you've wanted to play with UVb, so this could be a good chance. A side by side w/wo UVb from early would be great. Check out early in the thread what Rusty was doing, I believe he was using a small CFL reptile bulb. Something like that could be very informative.

I think the halogen bulb use we can run in conjunction with UVb use, but we need to get Weezard or you to start a mole-ass experiment thread going. Might be able to recruit some others to try experiments too.

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sounds good OM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

ADDED: And Headshake, you need to get a vaproizer so you can taste that green stuff without doing the quick dry oven thing.:)

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i know it. it's on the to get list! slowly but surely things are getting crossed out!


-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

...

Yo DreadedHermie,

I did know something....the moderating effect of a women on men's behavior. :D Even 'shake knows that!

...

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Yes it's true - us ladies do tend to have a civilizing effect on you gents - when we leave you alone for too long you all go native! :yippee:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

LMAO! that was a good one Ap!

there is a nice, solid core group of good people here.......we just happen to be a randomly eclectic bunch of heterogeneous bohemians! welcome aboard!



the sense of humor is definitely good. i also agree with the dissertation that we need to dilute the testosterone pool too. and again, not to be a bobble head in agreance, but we all do play nice in the company of a lady.
....

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Well, I definitely got a sense of humor - no worries there. You all feel like a solid group of very bright gentlemen, I already like it here. :1baa: A randomly eclectic bunch of heterogeneous bohemians sounds like home to me, I'd be happy & honored to be 'the girl' of the group. :icon220: It'll be like having a Miss Piggy or a Hot Lips Houlihan around - but this begs the question: who is our Corporal Klinger? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Looks like you have a sence of humor too, which will come in handy here. You may be a newb, but you are one of the few that has done thier homework and has come here prepared. Besides we need someone who can ditlute the testesterone pool, we all seem to play nicer when in the company of a lady.:)

I was hoping to find someone who could do what RustyTrichome had started doing, try to use UVb from the begining of thier grow. Now Rusty was going to do a side by side, but for most of us that's out so a back to back run is fine. The object would be to run the UVb from clone to finish if possible, to see if the light used very early in growth effects trichome prodution.

Since you are currently using UVb durring flower, your observations right now and when you finish can be helpfull. And if you are willing to forego the UVb use for one flower cycle to see what the differences are that could be extremely usefull as well. That part could be a little costly in time and finish, as I found out (took 1 week longer and never got to amber trics) so nobody is going to push you to try that.

Let me know what you think, if any of it is possible for you. And welocome to the wonderfull world of experimenting.:thumbsup:

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Sounds like a lot of fun and I'm definitely interested. I've got a vested interest in testing all the facts that are only somewhat known or still under debate. I'm already running a few side by sides already which I'll write up later & planning many more. Let me see how soon it will take my current project to take so I can get on it and start the experiment/journal. The way I'm planning the final set-up of my room, I just have to hang the other light - I could run a double sheet of panda cloth down the middle, separating the room in half, 2 reservoirs & aeroponic flowering chambers a piece. Think the double layer of polyvinyl would be sufficient to block the UVB from getting to the other side? One complication I'm thinking of - maintaining equal environmental conditions: temperature, humidity & Co2 levels... I could put 2 light proof vents in the visqueen divider or I could just partially split the room, hiding the plants but leaving the room mostly open. This would be a truly UVB-less grow (on one side) as the glass in my hoods blocks that end of the spectrum. I'd like to do it side by side too.

If my current row goes as planned - I'll have a virtual rainbow of MJ - from very heady sativa to stone indica. What I'm thinking is to take clones from the C99 (sativa), Sugar Blossoms (50/50 mix), and Sugar Berry (indica). I thought of going with the Blueberry for the indica, but blues are kind of a special strain with their own unique characteristics & I wouldn't want to throw an unnecessary set of variables into the mix.

One other thing which will be crucial in communicating the results of the experiment - how do you guys photograph trichomes? I think that would be very important to this particular experiment and I want to be thorough. I don't know how to get down to that resolution. I've figured out a lot of the camera stuff, but I still have trouble with focusing high resolution zoom pictures. I really want to be able to produce this part of the results.

May I ask, why did Rusty have to abandon his experiment? When I get the time (hopefully tonight) I'm going to go back and read up on your current Halogen project (I wonder if it's about what I think it is) & Rusty's abandoned experiment.

PS. I'll be requesting you all as contacts if that's alright with you all as that seems to be the only way to communicate on each others pages, yes? It'll be good for coordination, planning & set up for those times we don't necessarily want to start a new thread.

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Originally Posted by Apollonia

PS. I'll be requesting you all as contacts if that's alright with you all as that seems to be the only way to communicate on each others pages, yes? It'll be good for coordination, planning & set up for those times we don't necessarily want to start a new thread.

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Hi Apollonia, I just wrote a responce to most of your questions....but I screwed something up and it would not post. So I'm just going to quickly respond to your PS.

I've already accepted your request, but you need to know there is no PM on this board. The only way to leave somone a message on this board is thru a picture comment if they have an album (like I did). But the core group here are also members of another site (like you) and we do our PM over there. I'll send you a request there. Later I will try again to answer your questions here. :thumbsup:

Hi Apollonia.... I think the glass lens will block some of the UVB light but not much, maybe 5% at best....I think I read that somewhere before...:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Dogznova

Hi Apollonia.... I think the glass lens will block some of the UVB light but not much, maybe 5% at best....I think I read that somewhere before...:thumbsup:

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That seems about right, at least for this one.

Here's my "UV transmission test chamber" (lol). :tin foil hat:

I put some eyeglasses (Transitions, UV photochromatic) inside the bucket. The glass over the top is the lens from an Easycool 6.

The eyeglasses darkened right up. They don't do this if you use automotive window glass (blocks UV) as your filter. So, the Easycool lens must be passing the UV. :cool:
[attachment=o229992]

I have recently looked at replacement windows for my house. Several values of uv protection are offered. The thickness of the glass is consistant between uv protection choices so it must be either something that is added to the glass or added layer.

My :twocents:

M.P.

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Originally Posted by Apollonia

- but this begs the question: who is our Corporal Klinger? :D

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Oooo! Hermie says pick me! Pick me-e-e-e!! :woohoo: [attachment=o230006]

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- how do you guys photograph trichomes?

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I'm using a Bionicam Eyeclops, a child's "toy" easily located at Amazon.com for 25-45 USD, depending on who's got them. Dutch Pimp "discovered them" for us. :thumbsup:
[attachment=o230000] [attachment=o229998] [attachment=o229999] [attachment=o230004]

The 400X magnification is very hard to use but...
[attachment=o230020]

[attachment=o230021]

Rewarding, yah?:cool:

Aloha,
Weeze

Apollonia,
Off Topic:
Sorry it took so long to accept your friend invitation, but the board was acting wack for me and would save you once checked, so I waited until it would.

DH,
Then wouldn't you become a reverse DreadedHermie?
Now I'm really confused.

Back to UV talk.

M.P.

Nice pictures using the "Eyeclops" BTW...

That could come in real handy for maturation checks!

M.P.

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Originally Posted by MerryPrankstr

Nice pictures using the "Eyeclops" BTW...

That could come in real handy for maturation checks!

M.P.

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it's definitely on my "shit to get" list!

-shake

Hi fellas, just wanted to add quickly re: Uvb blockage. The reflector's madeof tempered glass - which I was told is designed with the intent of blocking UV rays - how well & how much remains to be seen, but I felt it blocked enough to necessitate the addition of my Uvb supplementary bulbs. Btw, 5 hours a day no less than 20" away... I wonder how far their effective range is. Hard to find anything on it with google. If I find anything I will post. And thank you all for "friending" me - can't wait to start coordinating experiments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

it's definitely on my "shit to get" list!

-shake

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Me too, thanks for the tip!

Weezard, how do you get that 400X magnification? Is it a special camera lens?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Apollonia

...Weezard, how do you get that 400X magnification? Is it a special camera lens?

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Aloha A.


That's the good Eyeclops.:thumbsup:
It's the deluxe high res, dahoosit model.
It has 100X, 200x, and 400X and a little 32 Mb. thumb drive that plugs into it's head and records jpegs for easy transfer to a PC.
Also has a built in screen and a video out.
Very impressive on a 55" flat screen

It was a surprise gift from DreadedHermie.
Thanks again "Crunchy Pants". ;)
It's a great thinker toy.:cool:
And a revealer of hidden beauty
I use this one as my wall paper;
[attachment=o230219]

This one is just kinda peaceful.
Dedicated to our own Rusty Trichome;

[attachment=o230218]

As for that tempered glass as a UV filter.
Borrow a pair of "Transitions" glasses and see for yourself.
As DH showed, they make a dandy UV detector.:)

Aloha,
Weezard

but this begs the question: who is our Corporal Klinger?

I know Dr. Hermie applied for the Klinger positionâ?¦..cum on. Itâ??s quite apparent that Olâ?? Crunchypants is way over qualified for the position. I submit that I have proven my qualification for the position unerringly over time. (READ MY LIPSâ?¦NO NEW THOUGHTS).

I wonâ??t argue the point that he looks better in a dress than I doâ?¦.but Iâ??ll put $20 down that that Iâ??m not nearly as bright as he is.

VOTE HORSEMAN for klinger

HMRâ?¦out

It looks like we have a veritable band of corporal Klingers... cool :thumbsup:

I'm going to orer one of those amazing eyeclops thingys tonight -how on earth did whoever (hermie?) find them!?!?

If I may be selfish here and ask a question: how close do you think uvb bulbs should be from the plants and how far away is too far away to be useful. In my current grow I have 4 30 watt Reptisun 10.0 36" bulbs, 2 for each HPS - on either side of the plants & I have them at various distances, but no closer than 20" to the plants and they're on for 5 hours a day only. Since the info out there is so scanty & sometimes contradictory - I thought I'd ask the smartest guys in town. (This little cadre is so awesome it really needs a name... we could get bowling shirts...:stoned:)