Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
American Werewolf in London.
"What ...we have here...is failure...to comunicate."...and we are skating on thin ice.
Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
American Werewolf in London.
"What ...we have here...is failure...to comunicate."...and we are skating on thin ice.
We have'nt had this much fun in Advanced Techniques, since...http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-...-big-buds.html
Well I remember several threads (not by Lola) with questions like 12/12 from seed? in the advanced techniques sections (please!!!!!!!) and no one does anything about it so I'm just struggling with why this one particular thing is raising such a fuss.
Take a quick glance down this forum.....24 hours darkness, 12/12 from seed, how to cure bud. I consider NONE of these in any way 'advanced techniques" but there they all are. Maybe exactly HALF are truly "advanced" in either the technique or the question so if you're going after that type of thing Rusty, do it for the ENTIRE forum not just this one technique.
THEN perhaps the words "advanced techniques" will actually mean something.
Lola, sorry to rant on your thread. Like your grow and will stay out of arguements from here on in, my thoughts being already stated.
I actually use a publication called Llewellyn's Moon Sign Book. It is similar to the Farmer's Almanac, but more accurate.
I would love to conduct experiments properly, but lack the funds to sprout 10,000 seeds at once, and what a waste of seeds.
I would hope that anyone who is sick of Moon Signs would stop reading these posts. I could've sworn I posted the first thread in basic growing and it was moved to Advanced Techniques, but I am STONED a lot of the time. BFD. I think this is where a thread about any experimental technique should go anyway.
In the meantime, I am just having a lot of fun with my friends. I thank them all for their kind words. Anybody can butt in here anytime they want. Let's just have fun. These boards are big enough for everyone's opinions. Please stop the name-calling and hostile comments. No one enjoys it when they are the one being made fun of.
I just had 3 girls sexed and would much rather talk about how happy I am. :D
LolaGal loves Weedhound, & Dutch & Rock & DTR & Axxxxe & Image Reaper. LolaGal gives them all a big Kiss. Hope I didn't leave anybody out! I'm so glad to have met all of ya'll. Ya'll are the best!Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
Dutch slipped me a little tongue when I kissed him......ooooh Dutch.:)
...Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
This was my original post regarding this subject:
And after trying to get the OP to post a link or show us her proof, it devolved into this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
Since both claims were apparently false, (no "moved" tag on the post, and like many others before me, I have scoured the internet looking for proof of this technique's validity, and found none) plus all the other claims she offered that were getting more and more far fetched...was simply trying to get her to put her money where her mouth is.Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaGal
Like I stated over and over again...the technique is benign at worst. No problems will likely result from attempting it. The big problem I have is someone coming in here and passing fiction off as fact. Period. If you choose to replace sound plant biology with folklore, you should at the very least be informed of it's unproven status, instead of being told it's fact. After all, this isn't cannabistales.com.
Those that wish to get personnal can and should expect the same in return. I know I do. The difference is, I try not to cry about it too much. Matter of fact, Lola's story about ripping-off G-13 made me chuckle. I guess if you wish to see my approach as hostile, that's your prerogative. But if you were to sit-back and look at the techniques we use today, they were evolved through intimate discussion, proof of ones claims, biology, and results. This now forms our knowlege base. Not ethereal and unproven concepts.
And regardless...if you make claims, you damn well better be able to support them. Tiz the nature of the Advanced growing forum.
Lola, as I stated before...good luck with your experiments.
:thumbsup:
So I guess the ear-ripping is out.....darn......:( :D
Not necessarily. I'll find another cause, lol. :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
does it list the scientific reason as to why planting according to the moon works? I am truely curious why if there is a legitimate explanation to prove this.Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaGal
It doesn't take tons of money to come up with seeds. Save all your bag seeds. Or grow a few female plants and hermie them very badly. You might not hit 10,000 but youll get a couple of thousand. This should be more than adequate to perform a preliminary experiment over the course of several moon cycles. Doing this multiple times in contrast to a control could prove that planting by the moon is indeed better (although I'm highly skeptical). Money doesn't seem like a factor here to me; but again that's me.Quote:
I would love to conduct experiments properly, but lack the funds to sprout 10,000 seeds at once, and what a waste of seeds.
I take advanced techniques to mean.. proven techniques that are beyond a beginners initial capabilities. Experiments are ideas. With that said I agree that discussing ideas here is great but don't be surprised if you're met with responses like this if it just sounds silly. People here want evidence for the most part. This thread isn't the first to get attacked for this.Quote:
I would hope that anyone who is sick of Moon Signs would stop reading these posts. I could've sworn I posted the first thread in basic growing and it was moved to Advanced Techniques, but I am STONED a lot of the time. BFD. I think this is where a thread about any experimental technique should go anyway.
eh; I noticed that you named people who came to your immediate aid and 'sided' with you. While those are great assets to have in friends keep the opposite in mind also. A person who can point out what others won't is someone worth having in your life. There's no sense in strolling through life when everyone is on your side. Your perception of how the world is will be severely skewed this way.Quote:
In the meantime, I am just having a lot of fun with my friends. I thank them all for their kind words. Anybody can butt in here anytime they want. Let's just have fun. These boards are big enough for everyone's opinions. Please stop the name-calling and hostile comments. No one enjoys it when they are the one being made fun of.
Congrats!!! Girls are always worth being happy aboutQuote:
I just had 3 girls sexed and would much rather talk about how happy I am. :D
Damn you are hot dutch. Love that look. Let's go out behind the barn;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp
I love you too daihashi. Here's a big Kiss for you. MMMMMMMmmmm. It's like one of those Oscar speeches, always forget somebody.
PROBLEMS IN WONDERLAND:
I am used to raising plants in 80+ humidity, in and out. First winter indoor grow.
NLHaze Girls:
I noticed some edge curling on leaves, but thought it was due to temps in 75-78 range and humidity at 30% levels. Now problem is more pronounced, so I thought probably Mag deficiency. Treated 24 hours ago with no visible improvement. I did use low dose of the dreaded Epsom Salts. Tested soil runoff ph of 6.2, which is what H20 tests after adjustment.
Problem with mold this grow, so have been keeping humidity levels under 40% without doing anything.
Do ya'll think it's low humidity or Mag def? Damn Kodak camera won't work (don't buy one) or I'd show ya'll what I mean. Although color is few shades lighter green on newer leaves, no yellowing or brown edges etc.
Using that crappy standard Miracle Grow Potting soil, which I will never use again. Just don't want to drive to Nashville for soil, etc., can't find any good soil at WalMart etc.
Anyway the cursed, Dec 4 planting (which was accidentally transplanted in BARREN sign of the moon) is finally showing signs of growth. They have a few roots poking out now seeking the bottom of their cups. Still only have 1 set of true leaves. Poor things. All are Nirvana strains.......and raised in similar manner.
The NLHaze girls smell so good. I rubbed a fan leaf to see if they were crunchy (not), and oh the wonderful aromas....I may have to put some under my pillow.:)
Thanks in advance for any helpful tips. :) Thanks for stopping by the Moon Grow :)
Flush your plants ASAP 5x the volume of the pot or more. Follow your flush with a light feeding of nutrient solution mixed at 1/4 strength. You have one of the following conditions probably:Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaGal
Soil is too hot for young plants
Soil has too much salt in it
Your epsom salt may have worsened the condition
PH range is a bit too low (6.2 is your current.. you want to actually be about 6.5.... PH range for soil is 6.3 - 6.8... yes that extra .1 matters).
Flush your plants really well and allow them to dry out decently before watering again.
Really to get a full picture we need you to fill out the troubleshooting form and pics help tremendously if you can provide them.
OK, thanks dai. They aren't curling down, curling up just a smidge around the edges. You don't think it's humidity low?
Daihashi-
if she is using MG soil, i would caution strongly about adding ANY nutes at this time. Definately flush, but, i would then give them a day or 2 to show how they feel. prolly dont really need nutes for a month.
After draining last flush, I would water with PH-corrected water and let drain well.
that MG stuff is Nutrient rich. I know, I use it.
I usually flush mine before use and cut with perlite and plain potting soil.
And I believe the upwards leaf curl is usually indicative of too much heat. is it not?
Lola, do you have a fan moving the air around? if not, get a small oscillating fan in there on low.
get pics, we need to see what you see.
That's what I'm thinkin too Rock, too hot. I've been pushing temps and low humidity due to the mold trying to grow on top of soil.
I did use 1/3 perlite to the MG soil. Sorry, I want to Post Pics Badly. No camera that works, right now.
I just gave them about 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom to 1 gallon. Hadn't watered for about 4 days prior. Didn't even use 1/2 gallon of water let most run off when watered. I ususally tend to get Mag def. with the MG soil near start of grow.
Their roots are BUSTING, I can see dimly through the grow bags! I have em in about 2 quarts of soil each. New leaves look fine, just smidge of curling on edges of older leaves.
Thanks for the input, want to get a few opinions before deciding what to do. I know it would be great if you could see them.......sorry. I won't hold anyone responsible for diagnosing in the dark.:)
EDIT: Forgot to tell ya'll, I have 2 fans going and it's a 400 MH lite. Temps cool, so I have had light pretty close, but not hot on plants. Humidity 30%, 29%
I even laughed the 2nd time I read it..................Dutch that was a good one. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
I do not want to seem arguementative or anything, just thought I'd try and answer a few questions I've been asked. So here goes...one of the reasons I haven't done this sooner, boring to retype stats. I have to do it all day long at work!
The Llewellyn's Moon Sign Book has been published since 1905. The Moon Sign Book uses the tropical zodiac. The Farmer's Almanac uses the sidereal zodiac. This can mean the difference between planting in a Barren or Fruitful sign. This is the reason a lot of people have tried gardening by the moon and could not see a difference when they tried it.
Some scientists that are credited with research on this subject are: Camille Flammarian, the French astronomer; Dr. Clark Timmins (one of the few modern scientists to have conducted tests in Moon Planting).
His experiments included the following:
Beets: When sown in fruitful sign of Scorpio germ rate 71% vs. 58% barren control.
Scotch Marigold: 90% vs. 32%
Carrots: 64% vs. 47%
Tomatoes: 90% vs. 58%
Two things should be emphasized. First, remember that this is only a summary of the results of the experiments; the experiments themselves were conducted in a scientific manner to eliminate any variation in soil, temperature, moisture, and so on, so that only the Moon sign varied. Second, note that these astonishing results were obtained without regard to the phase of the moon--the other factor we use in moon planting, and which presumably would have increased the differential in germination rates.
Dr. Timmins also tried transplanting Cancer and Leo planted tomato seedlings while the Cancer Moon was waxing. The result was 100 % survival. When transplanting was done with the waning Sagittarius Moon, there was 0% survival.
Dr. Timmins' tests show that the Cancer planted tomatoes had blossoms 12 days earlier than those planted under Leo; the Cancer planted tomatoes had an average height of 20 inches as compared to 15 inches planted in barren sign.
I seriously don't want to change anyone's minds, just answering questions.
:D I have read more of his experiments, but surely this is enough for the moment. Have fun researching!
I would raise the light or offset the plants some; under that 400MH light. The UV rays from MH can be tuff on seedlings.
Different reflectors, beam light, differently.
Thanks Dutch, I did notice couple of tiny hot spots from light reflection on one leaf. I hope I ain't cookin em slowly at 78 degrees.......Man this is the best smell in the world. I just hover and sniff! Shaded under leaves look fine. Finally got my Radio Shack pocket microscope working. Thanks again. I guess it would be cheaper to go to Nashville and get supplies than order through mail. Any suggestions?
I prefer to make what I get locally; work.
:)...http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...acle-grow.html
Quote:
I'm out here willing to take the hits challenging a fable. You take a chance on nothing, and offered nothing new
ok, fair enough.
I accept your challenge Sir, and offer this from my brief search of the internet.
Ohio State University Extension brief on planting by the lunar phases
an excerpt-
"Dr. Frank Brown of Northwestern University performed research over a ten year period. His findings were plants absorbed more water at the time of the Full Moon. He conducted his experiments in a laboratory without direct contact with the moon, yet he still found that the plants were influenced by the phase."
I admit this is about a growing plant, not a seed, yet references a study in the relationship of lunar phases as directly related to plants activities.
the majority of research I found available online directly referencing Dr. Brown's work is primarily focused on lunar effects on oysters. One of his many studies.
I would wonder if O.S.U. is willing to reference this Professor's work in a publication, if it were a bunch of voodoo?
There is also some study info online about New Zealand Iwi tribes who farm by a lunar calendar for 100's of years.
I also found this-
(from The Lunar Garden: Planting by the Moon Phases by E. A. Crawford)
an excerpt-
"Why the Moon Phase System Works
The time at which a seed is sown is the beginning of its life cycle. Final plant yield, as every gardener knows, is crucially affected by the conditions encountered by the seed....
The person most responsible for formal experimentation in this area is Maria Thun, whose research on her farm in Darmstadt, Germany, has been financially supported by a group of biodynamic farmers.
In 1952, Thun developed a method of sowing a fixed number of crop rows over a sidereal month. The term sidereal refers to the position of the moon in relationship to the stars or constellations in the sky behind it. In other words, Maria Thun sowed according to varying phases of the lunar cycle. Once the crop came to maturity, it was weighed and studied, and the results were recorded. Thun's findings were accumulated over a ten-year period from 1952 to 1962. The crop Thun chose to study initially was potatoes; subsequently she studied not only other root crops but also leaf crops, fruit-bearers and flowers.
Thun's results were surprising. She discovered that if potatoes were planted when the moon was in the constellations of Taurus, Capricorn or Virgo (traditionally termed "root days"), the crop was more prolific than if she planted when the moon was positioned in other constellations of the zodiac belt. After some thought, she concluded that potatoes did better if planted while the moon was clearly positioned in earth signs than at any other time. Potato crops planted when the moon was positioned in the constellations Cancer, Scorpio or Pisces--the water signs of the zodiac--did poorly.
The results of Thun's studies fascinated another experimenter in Germany. Graf repeated her method from 1973 to 1975, this time using many different types of soils, and planting radishes as well as potatoes. Graf discovered that sowing on root days affected positively the growth and production of crops, and got best result when using chemically untreated, organic soils.
In 1976, Kollerstrom and Muntz, Sussex market gardeners, repeated the experiments of Graf and Thun and gained a 45% increase in yield for crops sown on root days. Conducted over a period of two months, their study did not show that the phase of the moon, waxing or waning, made as much difference as the moon's placement in the sky at the time of sowing.
The effect of the phases of the moon on seed germination and growth was first studied by L. Kolisko in 1930. Using wheat, Kolisko found that seeds germinated faster and more prolifically when sown at the full moon. The new moon gave him the most unsuccessful results. Later experiments on cress confirmed Kolisko's findings. Recent studies at Northwestern University, conducted by Professor F. Brown, have shown that, even under equal temperatures, seedlings absorb more water at the full moon than at the new moon. The findings lend credibility to adages that recommend harvesting at full moon. It seems plants have less water content at the new moon phase. Professor Brown went so far as to test plants in a darkened laboratory where they would have no direct access to effects of sun or moon. The plants still responded to the moon phases.
Other experiments have been conducted at Wichita State University and at Tulane University. All have achieved the same results. Experimentation indicates that seeds sown just before or around the full moon have a higher rate and speed of germination than those sown at the new moon because seeds are able to absorb more water at the full moon...."
Planting By the Moon , Bibliography, with too many references to list here.
I found these in a couple hrs, without a super-computer. maybe you didn't use the best search terms?
Do these sound like references to fable and folklore?
Multiple studies going back to 1930, conducted by private individuals, public organizations, and universities.
I, sir, will also come out swinging if challenged;)
I really hope you don't make me mail away and request all the statistical data,,,ok, that was sarcastic. wanna call it a draw?:jointsmile:
I really don't understand how you're getting MG deficiency. MG does not have any Calcium leaching properties (like coco) that would effect Magnesium uptake or vice versa. In addition to this if you are using tap water Magnesium should also not be an issue. Feeding with epsom salt is just going to aggrevate a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaGal
In regards to curling up or down. When your plants are being burned by nutrient rich soil when they are too young they will curl up.. curl down.. they will even curl in spirals. It doesn't matter.
What are your temperatures in your grow area. Do you have a thermometer at the canopy? You mentioned 78 degrees in a later post. Even with hot spots you would have to have a hot spot about 10-12 degrees above that in order to induce leaf curling.
You're also growing in grow bags. From the LITTLE that you have posted about your actual problem I would have to say it is something effecting the plant at the root level. Whether it be PH, soil mixture is too hot, or that your roots are being disturbed when their bags are moved.
I also believe your humidity is fine but it is worth mentioning that low humidity can lead to higher transpiration rates and this can also induce some leaf curling or something that looks similar. Your humidity is not low enough to consider that though.
And rock steady.. I was unaware of how old her plants are. The 1/4 strength dose only applies to plants old enough (typically 3 weeks old and older.)
HooWhee....Rock and I are busy beavers! That ought to be enough scientific data to last a while.;) Good job researching Rock! Thanks for the informative, and well written post!
I took your advice, Dutch and bumped the girls a little toward the back of the light footprint. The one gal that was in the back had little or no signs of curl.
If they aren't better in morning, I will continue with the other advice. Thanks all for the advice everybody. I'll try to keep that pH at 6.5.
My pH tester, aquarium, craps out at 7.6. When I test the tapwater, that is it's pH 7.6. Isn't that a little high for tap water?
SIDE NOTE: I too, have been seeing wild rooting in the Nov 16 planting, which was planted in good rooting signs and phases of the moon.. the trend continues!:thumbsup:
once a leaf is curled ...it generally stays curled...IMO. Don't sweat the small stuff....watch, the NEW growth.Quote:
I took your advice, Dutch and bumped the girls a little toward the back of the light footprint. The one gal that was in the back had little or no signs of curl.
If they aren't better in morning, I will continue with the other advice. Thanks all for the advice everybody. I'll try to keep that pH at 6.5.
(ignore, the red stripe)...I like 6.7 soil ph...:thumbsup:...6.5 might be better?
Lola, a photo would REALLY REALLY REALLY help. i'll even take a cell phone photo but I would guess ph issues over a true "deficiency" of anything just based on odds themselves. I don't use MG, however, which is why I'd love to see a photo.
And Ps.....too low a humidity is starting to get somewhere in 20s imo.....and then usually presents as a k def, due to, lol, low humidity. I keep mine in the 30''s religously to avoid mold problems.
Thanks ya'll. :thumbsup:
Thanks Stinky for the new title you picked. I like it. I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.
ooh look at your fancy title change. lucky!
Good thread. I don't actually believe in moon phases changing plant behavior but I think it is a good thread for advanced techniques. If someone wants to plant according to the moon I think this information will be helpful. I'm considering germinating five seeds at a time every day, from the same bag, plotting height weekly and number of days till alternating nodes, tracking cuttings, days till flowering etc. I'm not sure when I can start, but this might be a good time as I have no housemate and one of my jobs is closed for the next two weeks.
^ I wanted to add some more, but the time ran out for editing.
I think advanced techniques is a good place for this information. It's useful to the people who want to use it, but I wouldn't want any beginners thinking about anything but plant spacing and depth, lighting, cutting, sexing, and flowering. I know with my first grow trying to look at lunar calendars would have been completely overwhelming. Something doesn't have to be proven scientifically to be useful, if only to make things more entertaining. Gardening should be about FUN, especially growing the herb! If I made a post saying that I put a resin frog under every plant to ward off whiteflies, and my whiteflies disappeared, it would certainly not damage any grower who wanted to use it as an adjunct to neem. If it just made you feel better and more optimistic about your grow it would be useful even if it doesn't affect the plants!
I know that plants and animals respond to human cues, I have seen plants following a cycle with me as I went through an illness. Maybe it was because I didn't take care of them the same way (I think I treated them the same, but I'm not sure), but they definitely showed decreased vigor while I was sick. It could have been that I was throwing pathogenic germs around and the plants were using their energy to fight them off. Could have been just random.
I also look at zodiac charts for amusement. I personally don't think they're worth a pile of beans, but sometimes it's fun when some aspect of your day mimics the chart. It's like getting a bonus somehow, even though I know it's not really connected.
Anyway, I support having this is in the advanced techniques. I think it qualifies as accurate (There's not much argument over what sign and phase the moon are in), useful, and not for beginners.
Thanks JD! I will be updating regularly. In one of the pages are some times for good planting, etc., left in December.
Thanks to everyone who has stopped by!
Yes, I find it pays to ask nicely and politely! :D Did you read all of Rock's and my scientific findings? What did you think?:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenGraham84
Stinky's the Best!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by LolaGal
Hello to all my friends in WonderLand!
I've been online, on the phone, etc. with KODAK all day about this piece of crap digital camera.....the lovely Kodak EasyShare CX4300. Turns out they will give me 15% discount towards the purchase of a new camera, if I send in the unwarranted one I own.:wtf: So I guess I get to keep a camera that does not work or buy more Kodak stuff....hmmm what to do?
The Cancer planted NLHaze babies are doing about the same today since moving further out of the light footprint. I've only moved the bags once so far. Canopy temps 78, Humidity 30%.
Their roots are visibly larger daily due to correct moon sign planting. I wager one week till transplant to pot.
The leaves are same regarding edge curl up. However, I am beginning to wonder about the lime leaf coloring. I do believe a see a Mag deficiency early stages. Slightest chlorosis noted today. No new leaf curl noted. I'll give it another day to consider options.
Wish I had a camera of some sort other than 35 mm. Even went to borrow one with disastrous results:)
Thanks in advance for any help:jointsmile: