They really DO look good Rock. Props to you for your hard work....and even more so because of your 6-day a week work schedule. Well done! :thumbsup:
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They really DO look good Rock. Props to you for your hard work....and even more so because of your 6-day a week work schedule. Well done! :thumbsup:
according to post 4, my tapwater was tested at 240, so, i guess i raised it to 100 last night.
i'll change it out tomorrow after work.
how long u think should i wait before i turn the clone?
ironically, the clone in soil is the same size.
they are runners it looks like.
i turned maria in week 4.5 and she's doin awesome.
check out the pics in the blue russian thread:thumbsup:
ok, kinda didnt have any time earlier in week, so, been lettin these just kinda simmer.
end of week 4 veg.
finally changed out water today, 4 full weeks on same 1st water.
ph was lil low.
dumped it.
MII-
2.5 gal water
1 drop ST
1.3 tsp FN
H2O = 120 ppm
+ST = 135 ppm
+FN = 525 ppm
ph adjusted to 5-6
root growth is cool.:cool:
turned on airstone.:)
SNLxNH-
2.5 gal water
1 drop ST
1 tsp FN
H2O = 139 ppm
+ST = 147 ppm
+FN = 375 ppm
ph adjusted to 5-6
no root growth showing yet:(
that is all for now.:wtf:
Ok...looking good.........you know I'm going to scowl about no water change.........you got away with it but certainly may not in the future and these kids can crash fast.....fair warning.
They DO look quite good....don't worry about the roots from the seedling......they'll show up before long. What size were the ones you have flowering now when you turned them? Bigger or smaller than these?
i knew u would 'make the face', which is 1 reason i hesitated posting.
i knew i was risking by not checking in, but had to rely on karma, only so much time and energy in each 24 hr clip.
i needed to give time to the Russian crew.
i fully accept that i have not provided 100% best conditions or attention. so, i'll accept slower progress. i think itll be great just to get a feel for the way this whole hydro thing works. i can always take more clones from the veg crew (and that is the plan), when they get turned. (continue the cycle;))
i figured a lil more nutes to the clone would be ok as its more mature chemically and bigger physically.
as to 'turning schedule', the mom to this clone (Maria) was forced into flower lil early (mid-week 5) and showed preflowers in 5 days (early in what woulda been week 6 veg).
this clone (MII) was cut 4 weeks ago (when pre-flwr 1st showed on mom, and had approx 1-1.5 wks in a soggy plug, then i removed rockwool and put in the bucket w-perlite instead)
now, altho we are close to a similar pace when compared on the grow calendar,,,this clone is lil smaller size than the mom when pushed to flower. and im glad, cause i dont really 'feel' the spare room in the flower room. i wanna stay focussed on whats in there now.
I am considering topping everyone in veg to slow them down a lil.
i need the monsters to finish before these make the move.
Well as long as you understand that topping isn't really going to "slow them down" as much as MAKE THEM BIGGER LATER!!!! :woohoo:
I'm not bitching at you Rock (:wtf:) but I want you to be aware of cause and effect........hydro isn't nearly as forgiving as soil. It's actually called a "heads up" but I know you aren't big on those from me anyway. Four weeks just seems like a darn long time not to find an hour to change the plants' water.
on request, an update.
been maintaining ph and nutes.
few days ago, after adding nutes,,,
SNLxNH
815 PPM
M2
1105 PPM
changing water today (10 days since last change)
tomorow starts week 7 veg.
i think they are both ready to turn, but,,,,,, the flower room is now a jungle room:wtf:
will be at least 2-3 wks before anyone can get in there, and even then, its only a maybe,,,,,
i guess its a problem more people wish they had to deal with???:wtf:
see last pic and u'll understand.
Good job!!! They look great Rock! I'm impressed with your hydro.....I guess you learned by osmosis or something. :thumbsup:
Thanks:)
The changing of the water,,,and some kool pix:thumbsup:
note-the ph has been very stable once its set.
M2 (Maria clone)
2.5 gal H2O (130 ppm)
1 drop ST (+10 ppm)
4 tsp FNG (1270 ppm)
ph bumped up to 5-6.
starting week 7 veg, i need to turn her, but have no room in the flwr room!!!:eek:
look at those roots!:D
i have no idea what i am doing:jawdropper:
SNLxNH (sour northern lights X nevilles haze)
all the numbers are the same, excpt the final ppm.
I nudged the nutes a touch on this one.
1300 ppm.
roots finally made it to edge of the basket.:D
will prolly need to turn on airstone this week.:cool:
Well you're a for sure grower now. Those plants looks great Rock. Really! Couldn't make them look any better myself right now. Excellent work. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
I agree with the hound all the way.:thumbsup:
WH, Hydro.
thanks:)
So Rock what's your thoughts on the hydro experience so far?
gotta say i'm very undecided.
certain considerations come into play.
-maybe i coulda done a more aggressive grow, had i more spare time to monitor n adjust.
-the media was a PITA to get neutralized, but maybe part was my not changing the water often enuf during soaking.
-i shoulda used different rooter substance, wool sux.
-in comparison, I have another clone (same age) which is kickin ass in soil. approx 1 wk more progression at this point.
-in a somewhat unfair comparison (diff strain) the other 2 seedlings are kickin this hydro seedlings butt.
-additionally, i cannot get a fair 'feel' rite now cause theres no room in flwr room to move and see results. (flwr room is booked solid), if i could, i'd switch to flwr now.
other thoughts.
-this weekly changing of the water is sucky labor, in comparison, 1 pot change to 5 gal, although a big job, is easier with dirt, overall IMHO.
i'm not 'turned off' on hydro, yet.
i do want to see how these finish out.
to be fair, i will give it another try.
i'm fairly secure i've got the soil thing down solid at this point.
loving this thread rock!
as i traditionally grow in soil and have been thinkin of switching to hydro for my indoor operations...also your using the nutes my friends have suggested.
keep us posted on those girls!
Interesting.....sounds like a fair assessment. It's odd that your plants are doing better in soil than in hydro....but....well.....you're Rock. :D
ok, looks like more frequent checking will be needed from here on out. this may get tricky.:wtf:
IMO they started lookin a lil 'funny'. uneven coloring in newer leaves.
i figured maybe PH. nope, still about mid 5's. should i raise it a lil???
then it occurred to me, maybe PPM due to evaporation rates?
i remember WH and Rhiz discussing max PPM shouldnt be more than 1300 or 1500, something like that.
so i check PPM.
M2- 1580 ppm
siphoned off a lil more and added 1 gal plain water.
930 ppm.
SNL- 1560 ppm
siphoned off lil more and added 1 gal plain water.
1080 ppm.
its also a lil warm in the cab, but not alot can b done about it right now. possibly considering just changing the bulbs and timers in the grow cab and convert to red cfl's and at least get flowering started.
the downside there is cannot clone or start any new work for the next wave until can rearrange and get some moved out for real.
still lookin at about 2 weeks b4 room in flower room,
life could b worse:wtf:
btw- i feel they have mostly caught up to the soil-grow comparison. about even with the other clone of the same strain.
I'm guessin this must be about when they kick into a faster gear.
the visuals below.:cool:
gave it alotta thought b4 answering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
wanted to be fair, and guess my backround helped in the analytical portion of this evaluation.:cool:
i was starting to think may be a bit odd, but,i did kinda try to slow them a lil so i could get used to the new routine. so, maybe its me.
unsolicited product review-
GH Flora Nova 1 part grow nutes are very easy for a newbie to hydro.
simple, 1 part and the ph buffers hold solid once PH is set to your liking.:cool:
I loved switching to hydro. I find there is less bugs on the plant.
btw UR plants look killer.
and yah this would be about the time I'd start flowering.
heres to some good luck for both of us on hydro.:thumbsup: :jointsmile:
Looking good rock! I havent really read through your whole thread but I skimmed it a little :D
Youre at 1600PPM in veg? I usually keep it sub-1000 until flowering but hey if it's working for you, I can't argue with results.
Whats the hardness of your water?
Does your TDS meter measure EC (electrical conductivitty(?)) too? My TDS meter has long since been broken but I think the salt remnants from the nutrients will register as TDS and throw off the actual nutrient amount in your system based on TDS.
If your PH is in the mid 5s you'll be OK since it will creep up. Just remember you want the vial to look like pee.
The brown roots (dont know if youve solved this yet, i'm a little behind) could be a sign of light leakage into your res. Looks like algae to me, or if youre using organic nutes residue from that. Stick a capful of hydrogen peroxide 3% in your res and if it's algae it will destroy it pretty immediately. I've also read that hydrogen peroxide isnt especially harmful for your plants, it's never harmed mine, and it seems like it's actually beneficial.
what is that?!?!....coming back to the dirty side rock?...lol...plants looking lovely man..
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
Rock I'd back way down on your numbers....you seem to be having some sort of lockout thing going on.....I'd take them back down to 1000 as macros suggested.
Perhaps its your lighting.....but alot of the leaves seem darker in the middle than on the edges. I would seriously doubt a deficiency......especially at those numbers so I would suspect too much of one thing is starting to lock something else out.
PS...your funky edges also suggest overnute as well.
Good luck.
Hydro-thanks dude,
macro- thanks, but, if u pee orange, id see a dr..also, the GH FloraNova has kept the ph remarkably stable compared to other results ive read about. i havent really needed to adjust. as to the browning, no light leaks, i sprayed it all black, i thought it could be from the nutes because the nutes are terribly dark. dont know if they are organic, didnt read that part of the bottle. i might toss a lil peroxide, if recommended by my coach.
whiskey- i never 'left' soil, this is more like 'test driving a 2nd car';)
If you are using a zyme product skip the H202 otherwise its ok to use at 2 tsp gallon every other day to help the roots.
I didn't read your post before I posted....you pretty much already got to the answer by yourself.....props my man. :thumbsup:
I really do think you were born for hydro. ;)
PS....once you drop back numbers everything should begin to restabilize.
lol maybe not THAT orange, but THAT orange on the little ph meter is 5.0, we're aiming for 5.8
I'm not sure about the GH Flornova, I almost picked it up. But the PH really won't be fluctuating that much until your into flowering.
As for clones? I think they're ready age-wise but you may want to wait until it looks a little healthier.
I second WH on the nutrient concentration drop, you may want to kick down to 600-1000 PPM at their current stage.
Also did you check your res after you painted it for light leaks? I painted one of mine black w/spray paint and held it too a light and it leaked like mad. Algae doesn't need very much light to grow and can choke your roots
I agree about the spray paint....I did a layer and it sucked big time so I ended up redoing EVERYTHING with dark tape on my hydro buckets as well.
time for a water change.
M-II
Pre-change
1270 ppm (climbed again?):wtf:
PH 5.1, (went down?)
changed out-
2.7 gal H2O (190ppm)
+ drop ST (200ppm)
+ 2.5 tsp FN Grow (485ppm)
I also added 4 tsp H3O in case the roots needed it.
I also taped the tubs as a precaution.
SNLxNH
Pre-change
1340 ppm (climbed again?):wtf:
PH 5.1 (went down)
for some reason SNL's final PPM is 760.:wtf:
I thought I did the same things. maybe a lil less water, its wasnt an exact measurement.
I also gave these kids a Liquid Light shower.:jawdropper:
i had some left over from the 2 youngsters in flower.
what do you think of Maria-II's roots?
Time to add a zyme product......don't mix them but it should become part of your regimen at this stage.
Hydroguard is one thought if you can't get cannazym or sensizym. You should try and untangle that ball of roots when you can. How is the areation in your rez's?
Edit: By don't mix them I meant the peroxide and a zyme product. Sorry about that.
whats the zymme for?
ill try to untangle tomorow, took day off:jointsmile:
usin 6 inch stone, its bubblin:wtf:
it will help keep your roots from getting....DISEASED! (Ps....nice side effect.....helps keep your ph stable)
Alternatively you can use H202 every other day but I like the zyme products better.....encourages the shedding of older, dead roots that tend clog things up as well.
FN is an Organic product isn't it? That could be what's causing the brownin of the roots.. otherwise it looks like root rot.
maybe your roots are choked by algae or disease (wrapping your res in black duct tape helps prevent light leaks in the res)
At this stage throw in a zyme product and hope for the best, make sure you remove as much as the dead roots from the water as possible to prevent further problems
flower them soon they grow HUGE in hydro
a couple weeks ago, I gave what i thought was a light dose of Liquid Light.
well, everyone in veg reacted poorly.
as u mite imagine the hydro's reacted worst.
discolored, wilted, curled and shrivled leaves.
I tried to give them a chance to recover but that wasnt happening.
I decided to clone out both plants completely.
i dug out the 1st prototype for the clone-bubbler I made for Weedhound, made a few modifications and decied to put it into service.
cuttings-
8 of M-II (1-8) (blue russian)
7 of SNLxNH
cut, scarified, hormoned, bubblin 1 hr on-1 hr off (24 hr cycle)
well, unfortunately they all fell over wilted and shrivled to nothing overnight.
it was a 50/50 as to if any would survive.
ok, what was learned?
-hydro will require a decent level of attention (time is precious lately and contributed substatially to this failure)
-need better 'starter' media, rockwool sucks.
-prepping hydroton might be a pain, but, part may have been 'user error'
-increased space n improved ventilation may be required in this latest version of the veg cabinet.
-Liquid Light should be avoided in veg until its effects are better understood in regard to this particular setup.
anything missed?
no new hydro experiments until further notice,,,
that means,,, back to soil. <-(thats for u Whiskey;))
I WOULD lower your numbers if you do more hydro.....I seriously think that's more your problem than the LL......unless......did your soil ones crash as well?
I agree about the hydro demanding more attention than you can give with you job.....honestly not sure if I would try doing hydro with your schedule even with all the practice I've had. :cool:
Hydroton sucks the big one.....operator error or no. :wtf:
Just went out and checked one of my plants and I'm giving up the Liquid Light as well......completely. Just one too many reactions ont too many times. I'm going back to my VHO. :wtf:
Dudes..... it may be because I stoned right now:smokin:, but this was a very informative and entertaining thread to read through. Rock, sorry for your losses, sucks to lose them at THAT stage.
I am curious as well on the soilers.
WH,
nice job with the insights, guidance, and constructive criticisms of Mr Rock:thumbsup:. It seems there is a VERY HIGH LEVEL of mutual respect between you, and eventually YOU WILL WIN!
All in all lots of information and "THINGS TO LEARN FROM" in this post.:thumbsup:
WH, Tech, thanks.
some more reflection and answers.
yes, spare time is very limited and a far stricter schedule than 6-9 months ago, when this idea first arose.
yes, the numbers got too high, was reading ur hydro guide but got ahead of schedule. also didnt realize more attention would be needed upon changes in evap and consumption rates (seems the PPM gets all wacked as soon as evap occurs)
they seemed to be more stable, even if a lil slow, when the numbers were lil lower than actually shoulda been. this woulda been a better result than the crash.
as WH has said countless times: "with hydro, less is better, its not very forgiving".
well, mistakes happen, oops.
Q-did the soils crash too?
A-yes, reacted bad, curled, shrivled, discolored, but seem to have recovered slowly while in the flwr room, distant from the light, moved about 10 days ago. a decision needed to be made, the 2 soils moved due to smaller pots and area needed.
WH-
as to the Liquid Light, I am becoming more convinced that its simply way too freakin powerful. Notice all Opie's comments come down to about 1/2 strength and good/happy results. i'm thinking, in smaller quantities, cut it even more than 1/2.
maybe the Penetrator has an effect? i dunno???
Again, back to your: "less is better"
i still wonder if the cfls are a factor, even with your comment to contrary positive results w/cfl.
as to my friend Weedhound, what can i say? been with me since i arrived. helped, coached, put up with me bein a blockhead on occassion, etcetcetc.
a good friend I'm glad to have met.:)
-edit- and after a years worth of all these lil posts, colas 3 inches thick:wtf:
Yes you've finally hit the "sick cola" syndrome.
Rock's been a challange....:S2: but I can't seem to stay away......at the vey least he comes up with stuff I would never have thought of LOL!
I will say I'm very impressed with your try at hydro Rock.....even though it didn't end well I admire the fact that you took it on and gave it your best shot.....especially considering your schedule. I think if you had (a fair amount more) free time you'd be good at it but your life style just doesn't work for it right now. :thumbsup: