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opie the only link I can give you is to go to your local magazine shop and purchase this months issue of Hightimes magazine.
i dont have it in front of me but they do three separate grows with the UFO compared to a 400mh, a 400 hps and a 600 hps. and they CLAIMED that it produced around the same as the 400 hps. That is all i know. maybe you can get it at there site
Doughboy
What do you mean they claimed? Don't you get to see pictures or something? Could someone please scan the comparison photos and post them here so that I may, for my first time ever, see an all LED grow that rivals HID? And this is weed, right? I'm not interested in tomatoes or peppers. The nearest High Times is a 2 hour drive.
What extra energy are you talking about? Where in that spectrum did it come from, as opposed the the same spectrum in an HID lamp, or a CFL? And which one is the correct spectrum? Lil confused over here. I didn't know that had been discovered yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
But I was talking about the amount of light that it takes to get those huge dense colas we sometimes see pictures of and rarely get to grow. = $4000.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
ill see if i can get them up for ya opie...it spread over 3 issues....anyone else having problems doing pics last few days
opie I thought ive seen lm charts showing 2000 lm as growable but small, 3-5000 good grow range. and 7000 and above was overkill. I know those term are not nearly scientific enough for you and im going from memory UH-OH...lol do i have the numbers wrong?
Doughboy
Please don't worry about getting all scientific on my ass. I aint that book learnt.
And that would be wonderful if you could show me (us) the comparison photos, but I didn't know that they were spread over 3 issues. Seems like a tad bit of trouble, so I won't be the least bit upset or disappointed if you don't.
I have read the last two LED reports. They reported a smaller yield (due to a smaller amount of lumens being output by the light) and higher resin counts. The pics of the bud was pretty damn sticky looking. They used the LED UFO. Basically they aren't even using what they should be and they still got good results. No one is arguing that the money isn't there yet but, and I can't speak for anyone else, I for one am arguing that you can get better results given you match the same amount of lumens as an HID.
wooooooooosah.....pics are from this morning...and appear to have let me post....YAY...the internode gaps look good...babies are BRIGHT green unless thats my eyes from being in the grow room...do they look greener than avg? any differant from a HID? guess i shoulda done side by side...even if we did like 2/3 LED and like a 2x2 with a 400HPS...maybe next grow...unless......we get a dank harvest...fingers crossed...hte first pics i posted were 6 days ago...so they might be going a wee bit slow...tell me what you guys think....any differant looking than normal?
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
i just looked at those pics on my comp...is there any way i can post them in the same resolution?...they ones i posted on here dont look as good
bong
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
Lookin nice a health dude.. Will defo be poping back to see how ur grow goes man..
Good luck:thumbsup:
I'm guessing more resin is due to the stress of not enough light? Anyone? And if this is so, is this stress a good thing? Does more resin also mean more THC and other CBs, or just more resin? Also would it be fair to say that since you get less resin overall, but more resin per plant matter, does it come close to the overall goodness of results from HPS? Has anyone compared THC percentages in that extra resin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paht_Hed
SnS, plants are looking fine to me. Seems pretty normal so far.
About the pictures, High Def monitors are fairly new to the computer scene and most people have the ol' regular monitors. This means that you can post you pictures at bazzillion resolution if you'd like, but most everyone is going to see them at a max of 96 DPI. That's most peoples screen resolution. Generally pictures are saved for the web at 72 DPI, which of course really sucks if you're going for grand quality, but is usually just fine for conveying most messages.
Here's a little thing I posted awhile back. Might help, I don't know. http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...-pictures.html
SnSstealth, Plant's are looking great. Have you had a chance to watch the video I put up on the Light section. The coluor's are end less that you can mix with the Wash and spot series. Any coluor in the rainbow, On all different wavelength's even Lazer for some UV. I really like the violet coluor your light through's off. How long did you think you are going to veg.? They haven't streached much, as far as I can see. Good so far. Later
thnaks opie....that was exactly what i needed to know...lol and hatch prob gonna veg for 4 weeks total...so about 2 1/2 more weeks....goin for 5-6 footers...havent sexed, so im sure ill whittle down to about 15 from the 24 we got. then grow em tall topping twice maybe. tahts what i did with the jack herer...so far these look more like the jack than the bubbleberry, but that may change...this is an F1
whiskeytango
Those babies look happy and healthy to me Stealth.
Opie Yutts, Hey you asked for a short definition, and you said that it wasn't right. So I dug-out a Horticulture book from when I took it at Texas A@M. I'll still try to do it short, but mabe explain it better OK. Plant growth, harvest, potency and even the time to Flower are all dependent on the light they receive. Light quality, intensity and duaration are all important. The following is a brief introduction of plants, light, lumens, and PAR. Light is a plants food. Nutrients are only building blocks for the plant cells, but it is light that provides the energy! So how does it work? When light falls onto leaves it triggers the process of photosynthesis, which in simple terms is the process of turning light, which is radiant energy, into chemical energy. The amazing process of photosynthesis turning light energy into chemical energy, is one of natures wonders. This energy transfer happens inside the plants cell structures called chloroplasts. The basic components of chloroplasts are individual membranous, sacs which contain fats, proteins and pigments. Pigments play a important part, They absorb light in the photosynthesis process of turning light energy into chemical energy. Choraphyll, For example is an important pigment which absorbs red and blue wavelengths of light. The light absorbed by the pigment causes a reaction, which produces chemical energy( it makes electrons out of the light, and the electrons use thier charges to make sugar energy for the plant). The chemical energy produced by the chlorophyll (pigment) from light is sufficient to split the water molecules apart. This provides units of hydrogen(H) and hydroxide(OH). The hydroxide combines with carbon dioxide, Which provides the energy for plant growth.( And you thought there was nothing going on in your plants!!) Light, its intenisty, quality, its colour, spectrum, wavelength are therefore all-important factors, but how do we measure light and what are the most important components. Light is measured in photons, Light actually hits objects just like a spray of water, and the sun emits lots of light photons, to give you an idea of how many; the sun hits our body with over 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, photons every second and a plant needs about 20 photons to make a finishedmolecule of sugar. So our scientists can count the number of photons hittng the plant and even predict how much of this energy will convert into FLOWERS of FRUIT!!! Each industry has its own way of measuring light. Photographers use a light meter, the lighting industry uses lumens or lux and the gardening industry uses PAR. All are only measurements. Light from the sun is ideal but its not the same as artifical light, where output, quality, spectrum ect; raries upon the type of lamp and how it is used. Many growers think that more lumens= better growth/yields, When in fact artifical light, even at its BEST in a HID @ HPS lamps, but is not so good in terms of colours, much of the light from the bulb is not used by the plant, mainly because it is not in the 400 to 700 NW ( Nanowave) spectrum, and plants can only see and use light in this range. Light quality and its colours are as important as lumens. Light, as seen by plants is not a single colour but separate bands of active colour-band of light as a separate signal. Each band of colours has a different effect on plants and the following are only a few of the functions which each band of light promotes. 400 to 700 nw spectrum Blue light (350-500nw) powers chlorophyll production, powers cell actively, energies the stonata movement and makes the plant follow light. Green/Yellow light (500-650nw) not much action from these bands of light, but needed for good health. Red light (600-700nw) makes sugar from CO2. powers chlorophyll production , signals light and dark times among other functions. Strong blue and red light photons (as above) are also needed for good carbon dioxide uptake. The PAR scale measures all these colours, photons between 400nw @ 700nw, The critical range that plants can use of light. If its not in this range then its wasted light. For growers PAR is all impotant and as important as lumens. PAR stands for Photosynthetic Avtive Radiation. Photosynthetic, the sensed by a leaf pigment. Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy. Radiation, another way for light @ photon energy. PAR is the measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to Growing and Greenhouse light measurement. PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then actual output lumen of the HID @ HPS Grow Lamps. A Large HID Lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if its to far away from your plants most lumens are wasted, the light intensity diminishes with distance and in addiction the light is limited of what the plant needs because it is in the wrong spectrum!! So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light Colours that the plant uses to energies its pigments and generate sugar energy, and its the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce SUCH SWEET FRUITS OF OUR LABOR!!! You should have taken my short definition. Hope that explains where the exrta potency comes from using the LED's, correct Colours and no waisted spectrum. Fuck I need about 20 Bong-Hits. LaterQuote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Man I had it all seperated and in paraghraphs. Sorry it put it all together, anyway there is some good info in there from start to finish. Later
That wall of text hurt!
Haha but good reading for sure :)
OK hatch, that gave my record breaking, 6 day-old headache a run for it's money. I read the whole thing and I can't for the life of me, figure out what it is exactly that you're trying to teach me. I love ya man, and I respect your mad passion for LED lighting, but to be honest it's kinda like I kept waiting for a punch line that never came. Well, let me take another (and shorter) look I guess, hold on...
Nope, still no luck, sorry. I want to understand, really. I??m sorry for taking so much of your time, but I do appreciate you trying to help me get a hold on the physics behind this fascinating concept. I don??t know if it??s me or what (and it certainly could be), but something just aint clicking. If you don??t mind, I??d like to not give up on it just yet. Or maybe if you??ve had enough of me someone else can take over and pound it into my head.
I disagree with a thing or two in your thesis, but perhaps a different time. I guess where I really want to go is, what extra energy? What is this energy you speak of and where are we getting it? According to known laws of physics it must come from somewhere, it can??t just suddenly exist (well maybe, but then we??re getting into a non physics discussion).
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
So hypothetically light #1 provides wavelengths A and Z, while light #2 provides exactly the same thing plus wavelengths Q, R and S. Are you with me so far? Oh crap, this illustration is probably stupid. Ah, go for it opie, your stupidity is already legendary. OK, so in order for my 2 hypothetical plants to feed at peak chlorophyll activity in the restaurant of life, they need to order a helping each of light #2. Being typical youngsters, they prefer to just load up on wavelengths A and Z all day, and the truth is they could survive on that alone. But they??re nearly adults now, and they??re mature enough to know that eating some Q and S will build strong teeth and bones, and help them to grow up to be happy, healthy and productive members of society. They always ask for an extra plate so they can have some place to put wavelength R, which unfortunately comes with light #2. They don??t care much for the taste of R, and they really have no use for it. It would almost be like humans eating celery, which makes them burn more calories than are taken in.
One night as the plants lay awake in bed, they spoke of their dream of getting extra energy some how from one of the lights. Below them on a shelf were some young seedlings just finishing up a late dinner of light #3. They couldn??t help overhearing the conversation, and started saying how much better off they were because they didn??t care what kind of light they ate, and they could even survive in conditions of very low light.
All of a sudden Misty, the seedling leader spoke up and said she had an awesome idea. ??I think I know how we could get extra energy,? she said with pride. ??Oh piss off,? said one of the young adults, ??We??ve been talking about that for the past 2 hours, and there??s no friggen way. Laws of physics and such.? Though the young adults acted nonchalant and aloof, they secretly were very excited to hear what Misty was thinking of. After all, since in the beginning, when God put weed in charge of all the earth, enterprising plants have unsuccessfully been trying to get extra energy out of things. The seedling went on to explain that if they were to simply switch to light #1, meals would stop coming with that annoying wavelength R. After all, though not ideal it is possible for them to live without Q and S, and survive solely on A and Z. Ipso facto, abracadabra, boom! Extra energy. ??That doesn??t really make sense?, one of the older ones said. Well that didn??t detour Misty in the slightest, as she continued to clarify her position. She was a little baffled because to her, it seemed so obvious and made every bit of sense. Even though she would be loosing some energy from the absence of Q and S, it would more than be made up for, by the simple fact that wavelength R would no longer be available. Logically, this in turn would create extra energy, and therefore faster and bigger growth. ??It??s great she??s thinking for herself and all,? whispered one of the older plants, ??but this is the same chick that 2 days earlier insisted we could make a 2 foot length of chain stronger by adding more links.? The other older plant chuckled quietly, ??Yeah, eliminating certain wavelengths won??t generate extra energy. It??ll just make light with fewer wavelengths.? The first older plant said goodnight to everyone, then smiled and said to Misty, ??Good luck with that extra energy thing. Let us know how it works out for you.?
Ya, Sorry about the wall of text! Hey Opie Yutts you still in here? Hey what did I do wrong? When I typed you that reply, I had it all seperated like in some of your lessons, And also in different paragraphs and when I submit it , It ran everything together? I laugh every time I see your Avatar!!! Funny Shit eh. Tell me how to post it right next time Please Sir. Later
OK, Believe it our not but I understand your story. Put it this way, you have heard older growers say that when they use a MH to flower they get more potent smoke and more trich. In my maddness its the ultra violet through blue that the extra energy is coming from. With that said when we are using the HPS solo its more in the orange to red. Thats why you always here when they mix the MH / HPS in flowering they have a better finish. When HPS is alone its to high in the spectrum and thats where the extra energy is lost. The reason the HPS gets any results is the high output of lumens. Is that definition any help. Have we made a break-through? Maybe so maybe no? My patient are like a virtue! WE will keep tring till we get it staight. What's the dill with the headaches? High blood pressure, sinus? Man that sux! Later
I read the entire thing as well......twice.....and besides a nice definition of PAR I didn't read a single thing about either "stored" energy in the plant created by "the correct wave length" or frankly....ANY discussion on certain wavelengths of light creating "more thc or cbn" than any other type of lighting that is put at the correct distance.
This thread is very informative, less all the haters. I admire what he's trying to do here. Sink or Swim, everyone should tune in!!! I know I am... Besides, I??m setting up a DWC bubbling bucket system, and I??ve been leaning towards LED??s to light it. You can??t beat the pro??s, and if he fairs even remotely close to HID or HPS as fare as yields go, it will change the industry. :jointsmile:
Thanks for risking some cash for this experiment. LED's are more efficient than light bulbs, and use a lot less electricity. Another bonus is it's harder to triangulate on people by their electric bills.
This is all very interesting.
You plants look really healthy and happy so far. Good luck, friend!
My thoughts exactly! For those of us who live state side this is extremely important. :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by angry nomad
Hey all,
(continuing with Opie's lighting names)
Could it be that "light 1" sends out much higher photon levels of A and Z so much so that they compensate for Q and S?
Is it possible to get spectrum related photon data (testers or charts)? I read somewhere during this expedition that a 1000w hps has about 120w or so of photosyntheticly (<-- is that a word...lol) useable light, most lost to heat(another damaging factor). So could it be possible with a higher lumen count hitting the plant of correct spec. to make more potent resin?
Just a second, heat affects resin greatly. How about the heat from HIDs prematurely destroying some CBs and Trichs? I mean just the mild heat created by pressing affects the outer crystals.
Just a couple more ?'s for our led theory page:wtf:
Doughboy
Welcome new2dro and angrynomad
Thanks all for reviewing pics. Theres starting to be more growth every time i look, which with how much i can control myself is pretty often...lol. more on wed. or thu.
Doughboy
Stealth!!!
as far as im concerned, your plants are looking very happy. keep up the good work and im sure you will be pleased with the results!:jointsmile:
dodo
SnStealth, I hope your grow will deliver you some pleasure, and I hope you wouldn't mind if I'll take part as critisist in this thread:rastasmoke:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
Regularly it takes 3-5 days scince germination for seedling to open second set of leaves, how long took yours?
On last photos we can observe a little mutation such as leaf deformation and a 2finger leaf instead of 3, were these mutations in your garden earlier?
I appreciate your taking the $$, time and resources to try this new approach. I will be looking forward to seeing what kind of results you get. I think you are getting a lot of unnecessary heat in thread. Just keep on truckin....LOL. :hippy:
in the most respectful way..... there's 1 or 2 LED theory threads. this is not one of those. we ARE using LEDs...kinda moot point to theorize about it now huh.... now i see what ya meant WH, about keeping certain things in the correct threads....trust us, we got yelled at for it...lol.
answering question 34486: (welcome back cture)
i noticed the few mutations too, but doesnt seem to effect them at all...got one plant that has 2 sets of 1 leafs...maybe its in the F1. i have had small mutations in leaves many times before, didnt seem to effect the over all product...just a few less leaflets on some leaves....as far as i know, through all the growing IVE done, leafs forming not perfect is fine, have a few almost every garden
BONG!!!!!!!!! thanks for the imput guys
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
I've got a good idea what's happening. Not sure, but a good idea, since a very similar thing happens to me. I don't get it really, but it must have something to do with how different word processors function in regards to automatic web page stuff. When I type something on my laptop in MS Works word processor, then copy and paste into the reply box, everything looks like it should. Paragraphs are separated properly. On the other hand however, when I compose something on my desktop computer, I normally use MS word. (Yeah, I know, sorry for supporting Microsoft. I gave up my soul and things are still Fd up.) If i don't add an extra "enter" before I start a new paragraph, the same thing that happened to you, happens to me. For some reason it all strings together like yours did. Sometimes I'll be with it enough to remember the extra keystroke, and others I've luckily previewed and fixed it before submitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
Ah the friggen headaches. Got my record yesterday, 6 days straight fluctuating in and out of migraine territory. Nobody can tell me why I have them, including the time I was 12 years old and they stuck the needles under my scalp and hooked me up to some machine (EEG - Electro Encephilo Gram)(sp?)Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
Well at least I think we're getting closer. I understand that there is a lot of wasted light when using HID. But wasted isn't really that bad, it's just... wasted. If you have enough money and don't care much for the environment, "wasted" is just fine. "Lacking" on the other hand certainly is not, and that's where LED lighting systems are right now. In order to be completely as efficient as possible, the're going to need some of those Q and S wavelengths.
I think what threw me off track is you said that by not using the lights that waste light, we will be getting extra energy. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure now that you didn't exactly mean that.
Aaaaahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrhrhrrhrrrrrrrrhrrrrrrrrr rrrrrggggggghhg! (sp?)Quote:
Originally Posted by angry nomad
I'm pretty sure that would depend on several things, such as wattage, dispersal angle, and distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
OK, but for the purposes of my discussions, unless stated otherwise, I'm leaving the heat factor out of it. I'll assume everyone has the proper ventilation for whatever light they're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
I hope you're not thinking some heats been from me. I've wished him every bit of luck possible since before you guys were a gleam in your daddy's eye. Someone has to not get all LED-giddy if we're going to succeed in this endeavor, and I do take issue with people stating things like "LEDs are more efficient", or "LEDs generate extra energy", as a matter of fact, without a couple side by side photos or a couple of numbers or something to back it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by maryvv22
Ah, gotta love that 'Preview Post' button, don't ya? Keep on trying the explanation, we'll get it eventually....:jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
ok two things.....
Exactly how many people are "transmitting" under Stealth's name here. So far I think there is ....3??
Also this thread has become QUITE the discussion booth so bet NOW you wish everyone would stay off your thread right? :D Well you asked for it....so there. ;)
there are just 2 of us,,,whiskeytango and doughboy...and i dont really feel like we are getting "too much heat"... its supposed to be open for debate, discussion, ranting.....just not straight nay-saying, (deja-vu?) and that even only happened once....and no opie, dont feel any heat, flak, bad juju from you...we actually appreciate having (hmmm...wording) knowledgable people to go through this...its needed to have devils advocate, the other side....shirts and skins to get a proper grow. otherwise we wouldnt be on here yeah? Im glad that there are this many people interested in this, for or against.
so yeah, again, keep coming with the bellybuttons everyone, otherwise this would be boring...
bongggggg......
:smokebong:
whiskeytango