Clone Log - Cloning with Pics using Master Kush mom...

I measured the bubbler cloner and it is 14 in tall (with the dome on), 16 in long, and 11 in wide. Without the dome it stands a smidge over 7 in tall.

Here is what she looks like with the airstones floating around freely (I will attach them with my hot glue gun once clones are rooted). The heater I added a few days ago to bring the res temps up to 75-80 F. I notice that they go above that so I unplug the heater in the morning and plug it back in at night.

If I had a spare timer I would use it but they are all in use right now. Last thing is the air stones are separated with green twist ties so they don't bunch up together.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

What else should I be doing here besides watching ph?

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Change the cloning solution to a super weak (1/4 or less) nute solution around day 5 if you like. I'm now on Day 5 and using RO water only, PH of 5.9. I'll change again in 5 days and give them a little bit of nutes.

I expect to have decent roots (like Opie's post earlier) in about 2-3 weeks. It may take me longer though, simply cuz the cuts were as hard as toothpicks when taken from their mums. Neglect is a bummer, but its my own fault...

How warm is too warm for the water? And what kind of things should I be watching for as far as problems go with the cuttings? And if they WERE to survive will they reveg? Didn't you try cloning some of your MKs that were in flower?

The heater instructions said to unplug if it got over 82 F. I read somewhere that the 75-80 F range is a good target so that is what I am aiming for too. The problems I have seen are yellowing leaves and some leaves brown and die - that is normal. I did cuts from the MK a couple of weeks into Veg and they reverted just fine. Did I mention to keep the clones under 24/0 light? Preferably CFL or fluor tubes. If under a HID keep them several feet away they they don't get burned.

I'm assuming you meant a couple weeks into flower. Thoughts on what those buds are going to do in that humid enviroment? Should I cut them off?

hey, nice job WH.:thumbsup:

i'll have pics for you soon.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

I'm assuming you meant a couple weeks into flower. Thoughts on what those buds are going to do in that humid enviroment? Should I cut them off?

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They won't do well. I trim off the flowers and leave the fans intact. Trim what you can easily, if a little is left on, don't sweat it...

Cool Rock....thanks. :) This way I can practice on a couple cuttings and try to troubleshoot any possible issues before I chop up any future plants for the larger model. ;)

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

I'm assuming you meant a couple weeks into flower.

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Doh! :i feel stupid: Yeah I meant flower... trying to change res in 4 bubblers and make posts. Time to focus - I'll be back later.

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Originally Posted by MVP

They won't do well. I trim off the flowers and leave the fans intact. Trim what you can easily, if a little is left on, don't sweat it...

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Thanks....:)

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Originally Posted by MVP

I expect to have decent roots (like Opie's post earlier)

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Thanks, yes sometimes my work even squeaks into the "decent" category. I was bummed out when I couldn't find my pictures of the good roots and the clean cloner. I spose decent is a good way of describing the roots in that post, but the ones I were trying to find had like twice the root sites. Really! Hmm, did I put those in the laptop? Well... anyone? Could someone please answer me?

They gotta be in the Laptop. That's always where I find stuff that is missing. My trimming scissors were in there last time I lost them. So was my wallet and that one stray sock that orphaned the others. Either than or Mrs Yutts is playing tricks on you...

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

... I figured I'd try something small and slapped together from stuff around the house... I would not have approached it if had not already had everything I needed but Mr Hound and I were kind of bored so....

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Wow WH, nice little test cloner. Even much better than many non investigational cloners I have seen.

Iâ??ll bet you didnâ??t know that there are literally hundreds of thousands of weed starved children in this world, living in decrepit conditions not fit for dogs? Yes, you heard right; Some precious young ones have gone as long as several days without ingesting so much as the slightest bit of THC, or any other CB for that matter. Even more amazing, there are others who have actually been living completely without the important ritual of getting baked beyond worldly recognition, for the past month, or sometimes even longer. Sadly, some of these underprivileged children have never even heard of, let alone seen, items as luxurious (to them) as rolling papers. Incredibly, many even lack such vital basic skills as fashioning a roach clip from a match book, or igniting a bowl on a sail-board in 50 MPH winds. Most would gladly give both kidneys and their frontal lobe to have a mini cloner like the one youâ??ve made. This is a travesty that has gotten much too far out of hand, and something must be done before it's too late. Recent double blind placebo studies have shown that the phenomena of couch-locked, twinkie-munching pre-schoolers has already begun to dwindle in several areas of Europe and the entire state of Oklahoma. We hope to appeal to your sense of decency and compassion, and we sincerely believe that you will make the right and civilized decision. Once you no longer find yourself with a need for your baby cloner, won't you please consider donating it, or any other of your infrequently used weed related equipment you may find yourself shuffling about. All donations are or course tax deductible. For more than 8 decades our aptly named organization, TUCCAS, has supplied desperately needed weed supplies to children who are 0 through 17 years of age, in impoverished areas all over the world. Please study our avatar, which is a donated design collaboration between Andy Warhol and Timothy Leary. Their main design consideration was to present the over-all "mission statement" of the people in our organization. Also please be sure to pick up the upcoming March edition of Newsweek magazine if youâ??re interested in reading a shocking exposeâ?? in which President Clinton praises The United Childrenâ??s Cannabis Alliance & Supply, and the vital work we do. We at TUCCAS will gladly come to you for pick up of your used weed equipment at our expense, and we will always supply you with a generous receipt for your tax records. Please donâ??t let this terrible, unbridled affliction upon our society continue as it has in the past. Join us before weed ends up entirely in the hands of adults. You can make a difference.

Oh WH, I almost forgot; Just incase you could care the least, I have a couple thoughts about your questions and concerns. Otherwise Iâ??ll butt out.

wow, just wow:wtf:

i dont know what strain is currently in your stash tray, but, it must be stellar.

Must say MVP! Great job, i am new to growing and holy moly. I tried cloning before and failed but now after reading your post and following your instructions i am on my way with 20 new clones of BB :) glad you could help out!
Cheers!:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

wow, just wow:wtf:

i dont know what strain is currently in your stash tray, but, it must be stellar.

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I completely agree......you're just plain looking at art in Opie's post. Downright Shakespearian!! :thumbsup:

Opie please DO pontificate on my questions and concerns. If you're not comfortable at this point with how much degradation we've added to poor MVP's wonderful thread feel free to hop over to my thread and pick it up over there. ;)

Thank you MVP for this guide.

I have tortured a lot of cuttings and this guide gives me some needed input.

I have rescued 4 of my 8 cuttings from sure death from JIFFY PEATpellets. runoff PH was 4.0

I'm going to give your method a try.
THANKS AGAIN :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Opie please DO pontificate on my questions and concerns. If you're not comfortable at this point with how much degradation we've added to poor MVP's wonderful thread feel free to hop over to my thread and pick it up over there.

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Got a headache, 5th straight day. If itâ??s with me when I wake up, that will be my new record. I donâ??t want to go to bed yet, nor do I have a desire to watch TV, play a video game, read a book, or finish the new laundry sink. To be honest I donâ??t really want to sit here thinking and writing about cloning, but thereâ??s nothing else Iâ??d rather do.

Alright then, I guess since itâ??s a cloning thread Iâ??ll dump it here then. Not that Iâ??m a master or anything, but I have done it a few times and might have some insight. Hereâ??s a thread where I explain fairly well my method to my madness: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/70008-building-good-cloning-machine.html#post824423, and a couple posts down from that I elaborate a little.

Iâ??ve changed several things since that post, but take a gander if you want to know how I do it, and read on if you want some thoughts on your questions:

How many inches or gallons of water do you put inâ?¦
Mineâ??s a 3 gallon res and I put in 2 gallons. Itâ??s not critical as long as splashes from popping bubbles land on the roots occasionally. Ideally as much of the root as possible is suspended in air. I keep my water 2 or 3 inches below the lid. You do not want your cutting submerged, or you might as well drop it in a glass of water. For a good test, turn on your bubbles and close the lid. Come back in 5 minutes. The lid should not be completely saturated, but it should have most of it evenly covered in little drops. If it's not even, rearrange the air wands/stones.

whats the size of your airpump?
Mineâ??s a Rena, and has 4 outlets and pumps 9 liters per minute. I donâ??t recommend this brand, due to half of mine failing within a year, and nearly all the rest getting loud as sin. But hey, maybe itâ??s a good brand and Iâ??ve had bad luck. You could probably get away with a smaller 2 outlet pump, and either have 2 air curtains, or split the two outlets into 4 air curtains. Either way you get about the same amount of bubbles, but the latter distributes them more evenly.

Are you running both stones off one airpump?
Yes, and air wands or curtains, not air stones. 4 of em. Air wands will last forever and distribute bubbles more evenly since the air fills up a tube instead of a stone. Cut them to any length and gently scour after each rooting session. Air stones fall apart (at least for me) after a couple months underwater.

And what kind of a solution are you running in there?
Uh, interesting story there. OK not really. Normally I use about 4 drops of SuperThrive and a teaspoon of B1 of your choice, as long as itâ??s formulated for getting cuttings going. I got some DipNGrow concentrate that Iâ??m going to try in my solution next time. You do not need anything but plain water, but who knows? The other stuff might help. Too much though and their fried. Do not be tempted to start the grow nutes unless the amount is virtually nonexistent, or unless you plan on leaving them in there awhile before transplanting.

And lastly.....whats are the little white things that the clones are sitting in inside the tubing?
Iâ??m assuming his are to help hold up the cutting. I took a lot of time to make something similar to help the clones stand up. Basically a 1â?� length of tubing with a slit down the length. After a few tries I tossed them and just let the branches of the cutting keep it from falling through a regular olâ?? hole in the lid. Those holder up thingees were a total pain in the ass. Lately I have been laying a strip of chrome duct tape over a line of holes and poking holes in only the amount of spots that I need for that batch. That helps keep solution from coming up through and causing too much humidity, but for some of you that might be desirable. Now however, I am going to try something more professional. I got some actual neoprene insert replacements, for the holes in the big-time professional cloners. Soon I will be drilling new holes in my lid and installing these, for a nice tidy appearance that may even rival the craftsmanship appeal of some of MVPs stuff.

MVP are those airstones secured to the bottom of the bubbler somehow or just bouncing around blowing air?
When I first made mine, I used the suction cups that came with the air curtains, as the tutorial told me to. Of course those didnâ??t stay stuck worth beans, so I tried using epoxy. I scratched up both surfaces a little and first tried Goop or some squishy plumbers stuff that was recommended in the tutorial. After that failed I tried marine grade epoxy. That held for the first batch of cuttings. Now I have a nut (the kind that goes with a bolt) slid over each end of the air wands to hold them down. After the hours I spentâ?¦ man I wish I would have thought of that simple fix sooner. If you go this route, get nuts of some stature.

I DID get the cloning gel on and the cloning solution in the bubbler at recommended strength. What else should I be doing here besides watching ph?
A bit about rooting hormones: You can use DipNGrow that puts the hormones in the res solution, or you can use gel, or powder, or some combination. If you use powder it will mostly wash off fairly soon, but some ends up staying on the cutting. With powdered hormones it will be rare that youâ??ll need to mist your cuttings or use an anti wilt. I tried some popular gel last time, and I thought I killed my cuttings. I looked in a few hours after putting them in, and they were laying completely on their sides looking dead as a doornail. I surmised that the gel so completely protects from embolisms that it cannot let even popping bubble moisture permeate the â??protective shellâ?�. I didnâ??t have anti wilt, so I just misted often, and within a couple days the gel had mostly washed off and the cuttings had completely recovered. So, have some anti wilt handy if youâ??re trying gel, otherwise you donâ??t need it.

Mine really only holds two and even then there were issues with leaves bumping into each other etc....
What's your point? Donâ??t worry if your cuttings touch each other. You can cram them in. They love it. They get touchy-feely and start acting like lesbos. Seriously though, take a look at some examples of filled cloners around the internet, both weed and otherwise. Many are just crammed full like my bowl isâ?¦ cough. Thatâ??s better. The problem is that the most likely places where mold will start is where foliage touches something that stays wet, or is often wet. Usually it starts where leaves touch the lid, and later where leaves touch each other. Just maybe spray a little extra antifungal in really crowded situations. Shading each other from the light is not a concern, since light is not big issue at their age. You donâ??t want them to have a lot of light.

They are an expirement BUT I did study up a little bit on cloning a flowering ...plant and found that it is doable.
Well all I can say at this point is good luck. OK Iâ??ll say some other stuff too. You have chosen a difficult endeavor my friend. It can happen of course, especially for someone whoâ??s thumb is as permanently green as yours. Just keep in mind some extra difficulties. Like any mold usually starts happening only toward the end of my rootings, and a cutting in flower is staying in there at least an extra 2 weeks. I had a plant recently take 4 months to revert. I donâ??t know if a cutting would be growing roots while itâ??s reverting, making it possible to take it out of the cloner at somewhat of a normal time, or if it has to revert first, then start growing roots. I know roots grow in flower, but I also know thatâ??s not really their concern like it is in veg. Also when you do this you might want to consider leaving some extra foliage. Since baby's going to be in the nursery longer, it might be wise to pack some extra food.

How warm is too warm for the water?
Donâ??t know for sure. Warmer = quicker rootings = bigger chance of mold and rot. I started with an aquarium heater and found that it rarely kicked on. (I forget what temp I set it to.) I took it out, and the solution roughly stays at whatever temp my grow room is, minus a couple.

And what kind of things should I be watching for as far as problems go with the cuttings?
Over/under humid, mold/rot, and nightmares.

I got a million of em. Before I went to sleep last night I quickly jotted down a couple thoughts as they came to me, incase you wanted my input. Iâ??m not going over all them at this time since I think I will actually try getting some sleep now. Hereâ??s the copy and paste version, and let me know if youâ??d like to talk about any of it:

Tubes too long, donâ??t need tubes
Neoprene inserts with slit
Air wand not stone!
Need 4 wands or long flexible one
Powdered vs gel vs concentrate hormone
Drainage, level indicator
Fishing weights
Nute schedule
Tank heater/chiller
Intermatic vs cyclstat (found one for $85)
Soft tubing vs hard black
Spray, (fungicide, neem oil, anti-wilt, foliar feeding)
Bubbles on/off schedule
Flushing schedule
Light schedule/type
Pump
Hardening
Dome/Lid

Clone from flowering cuttings
Mold
Stress
Revert first (one of mine took 4 mo.)
Eats itself till gone
Dormant

Gnight. Hope that helps a little. Holy crap that got long.

Dreadscale, that's a cool sig.

Opie
i must say, that was another informative and highly entertaining report!:thumbsup:

nice:cool:

Thank you kindly Rock.

It was a wonderful report. :thumbsup: Seriously....a page turner. I couldn't put it down.

Interestingly with only one clone in it and all but one empty holes plugged up but one seems to create just enough moisture to cover my dome lid....aka bottom 1/2 of distilled water bottle without creating enough to drip.....sort of like the condensation on my bathroom mirror after a shower.

There are more bubbles on the "bottom" (which is really the top) than the dome but they ARE bubbles and not solidly wet. Will that work?

The goal of the aero cloner is to keep the cuttings as dry as possible while still supplying all desired moisture. As long as your stems aren't covered in water, and they just get little spritzes from popping bubbles, things are going right. They're getting air and moisture, which makes them grow faster and bigger than if they just got moisture.

So I guess, yes. It will work. To have it work the absolute best, you'll need to do a little experimenting to see how dry you can get your roots. You can get them more air by lowering the water level or by having less bubbles, or by having the bubble maker off more often. That's just tweaking a little and won't make a huge difference, but it does make a difference. Many people don't even use a timer, and have good results with the bubbles always on. However I believe this kinda defeats the whole purpose of aero cloning, since the stems and eventually the roots are staying saturated, almost like putting them in a glass of water.

MVP, just tell me to shut up when you're tired of me monopolizing your thread.

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

MVP, just tell me to shut up when you're tired of me monopolizing your thread.

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March on Amigo, this is for all of CannCom. Additions or hijacks are fine as long as we stay on track to the topic of cloning. :pimp:

Well with that invitation.....

Antistress Plant Protection Membranes - Explanation and Overview Anyone tried this? I went in today to buy some "anti-wilt" and spent awhile talking to my hydro guy about this stuff and soil talk.

My hydro guy swears this stuff is great....likes it better than anti-wilt and gave me several cool tips about it....including the fact that it does a pretty good job not only to reduce water transpiration but also "smothers" spider mites.

Opie....I know what you're going to say but my hydro guy does not make stuff like that up. I specifically asked him and he said if you used it once a week it would "do a pretty good job" of dealing with a spider mite infestation (his words.)

Never tried it Hound, but it sounds interesting. What size is it sold in and what is the approx cost?

Well I just bought a quart for $22.....but it's a concentrate so it should last awhile. I'm going to take a few more clones (:D) soon so will let you know what I think of it as an anti-wilt.

However....he mentioned.....that besides spider mites it would help with heat stress, cold stress, other types of bugs etc...said you could use it on plants at the veg stage for all different things but he doubts he'd put some on flowering plants. (Also smothers powdery mildew according to him and "hardens off" seedlings to more light more quickly.)
He was very excited about the stuff so I thought I'd toss it out there for anyone who might be interested.

Sounds like good stuff... I'm gonna try some soon. I kinda F-ed up and left the dome off my cuts for over a day and they look like they might not make it. I am such a Dumbass sometimes.....

QUESTION: How do you get the little clones out of the tubing once they have rooted? I haven't gotten this far yet but am starting to wonder since Opie mentioned it..

To get the little clones out, just grab them gently by their stem and coax them out of the vinyl tubing. When I do it I take off the lid and guide the roots thru the bottom side opening while pulling them from the top.

Sounds a lot more difficult than it is in reality. Sometimes a little root will get damaged but at this stage they are growing roots regularly and if one gets damaged no biggie. Just remove the damage and it will be replaced in no time with no real stress on the clone.

Check out this post to see some pics of clones further along. It is good reading too. I used many of his concepts so far...

1. Transpiration is limited by an application of AntiStress coating which forms a semi-permeable membrane around the leaf and stem surfaces.
2. The protective coating only partially blocks the stomata...

Sounds a lot like an anti wilt to me, but if they insist it's not, maybe it isn't. I was under the impression it would limit transpiration, and then I read the above and my suspicions were confirmed. I was always under the impression that you wanted as much transpiration as possible, or at least I was pretty sure blocking stomata is bad. Isn't an anti-wilt or semipermeable membrane a temporary fix? Along with dealing with spider mites once per week instead of just fixing the problem?

About the clone tubes, normally you want a slit down the length of the tube. That way you can just pry the tube apart, but still use it next time. This is one reason I recommended working the professional replacement neoprene inserts into your design.
Horticulture Source Popup - NEOPRENE INSERTS 3" FOR AMERICAN AG POWER CLONERS
I think they make em 1.5" to 6" dia.

PS. my first tubes had a slit in them, and I never used the slit. They always seem to slide out the top just fine, unless you let them stay in the cloner extra long. Like MVP says, occasionally a root will break off, but that still leaves the other 10 or 12.

ok, if this is the official cloning log as previously stated, without further delay,,,,,

here is the cloner I made up for WH.

1st an admission,,,or 2.
this took longer than I anticipated due to some circumstances beyond my immediate control.
aaaaaaaaaand,,,,
due to my notorious OCD and some mania thorwn in for good measure, the first version I was assembling was,,,well, ridiculously over-engineered.
Once I took a few breaths and realized I was creating the largest cloner in the history of cloning, I scaled back.
i had nearly all the parts here n there in my collection of 'stuff'.

Parts-
2x rubbermaid ruffneck 3gal tubs. (2 because i didnt really go for the foil tape thing, so, the walls are doubled to protect the roots from light.)
1/2 inch PVC tubing, because i had it on hand from a previous project.(cut to 2.5 inch)
1/2 PVC caps, for the ports not in use
2X 10 inch airstones
dual port pump
vinyl sink mat used to weight the airstones onto the bottom, cut out a few of the slots to weave the airstones thru, then cut in half and zip-tied to fit the tub properly.
lil clips and zip-ties to hold pump on outer tub.
and lastly, a fancy-schmancy on/off switch, just cause i had it and liked the idea of an on/off switch.

i cut the pipe holes tite, so there was no need for glue and also affords adjustability is desired.

thats it. hope you like it.
email me backchannel and we'll get this puppy out to ya:thumbsup:

oh crap, forgot to take a pic w-dome on, batteries died, ill get some and pic that too.

Rock That is GORGEOUS!!!!

Thank you so much....I'm really touched by all the work put in there!! I'll e-mail you....

got your email.
no worries, my pleasure :D

here's a pic w-dome.

overall dimensions w dome on.
16L x 10.5W x 14H


oh, btw, it looks like the magic number is 2 gals to bring water up to the best splash level.

Rock I tried to rep you for that but can't ......must have recently. MVP and/or Opie.....do you guys turn off your bubblers for awhile and if so.....what kind of times do you run them on? Seems as though my stems are getting too wet.

Gotta get all this sorted out before I get my new COOL cloner from Rock....::thumbsup:

Rock,

Real nice. Those end caps on the PVC is a nice touch. So is the sink mat. Good idea for a troublesome problem. A-, only due to the pump being too small, and the wrong kind of air stones. Of course that's just IMO, which only counts if I'm the one grading. 2 gal of water sounds about exactly right for a 3 gal container. Sorry, I couldn't rep you either.

WH,

I've always said that you want to keep the roots as dry as possible, while still suppling the necessary moisture. This is true not only during rooting, but in all phases IMO. Giving the plants air with their moisture makes them grow up to be jolly green giants. Here's what I shoot for during cloning: If possible, adjust the air pump to a lower setting and keep it on 24/7 until all plants show root buds (2-6 days). From then on the pump cycle should be decided through experimentation, but I try to use something like 5 minutes on and 30 minutes off, with the pump set to the highest setting. This is not critical and small differences in cycle won't make huge difference. When I can't use a cyclestat (for infinite control of duration and frequency) I use the $20 digital timer by Intermatic, which let's you do something like 30-40 minutes on and 40 minutes off. Again, you want to use as little moisture as possible while still keeping the plants happy. You should be looking for that fine line between the root scar getting dried out and the level of moisture just above it. Just like the race car driver (or me) cannot know where the fine line is between speed and sliding out of control on a corner, without going over that line once, neither can you find the exact location of your line without drying one out. Not only does oxygen help plants grow fast, strong and big, but many people believe that if roots have to do a little searching for moisture they will grow bigger and faster.

hmm, A-, ok, i'll take that for the first attempt, thanks professor;)

really, small pump?
i figured using the 2 port and dedicating 1 stone to each would be good?:wtf:

ok, wrong stones? well, i saw your post about the bubble curtain after i bought and wet the stones, so, that kinda negated the idea of returning them.

I did run the thing, and although it took about 15-30 mins to get the lid all misty, it did eventually,, not supposed to get crazy soaked, right?

i dunno, if WH wants to try the bubble curtain, she sure can, and i'll never be insulted:thumbsup:

BTW-
speaking of clones,,,,,,,,,
I did something,,,,,,,,
someone might give me a odd look,,,,,,,,

I clipped a clone off of Galina last week.
she's just starting week 7, so i took the clipping in week 6.
its deserperation time folks!:wtf:
I just couldnt take all the stupid males that been sproutin all around me.:wtf:
I need a Mother.
so,
i took a low branch, very small flower on it and about 6 leaves.
in the morning i snipped off the flower while still on plant.
several hours later, (i allowed for some heal time) I clipped, scarified, hormone dipped, and stuck in a cup with very loose, lite soil, about 50% perlite and domed it.
its sitting in the veg bunker with the 4 sprouts.
been 2-3 days, so far, so good.
I will wait until there is intense root growth.
i sleeved a clear cup in a colored cup so i can check on root growth.
hopefully, this gives me a Blue Russian Mother.
I need a guaranteed fem if I'm gonna try this wet stuff you guys keep boggling my mind with.
I have decided to try a "waterfarm" single 4 gal drip unit, its about 50 bones complete.
I will add a bubbler to the bottom when I get it.
i'm sure i coulda made something, but decided this would be easier for the couple bucks I might save.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

really, small pump?
i figured using the 2 port and dedicating 1 stone to each would be good?:wtf:

ok, wrong stones? well, i saw your post about the bubble curtain after i bought and wet the stones, so, that kinda negated the idea of returning them.

I did run the thing, and although it took about 15-30 mins to get the lid all misty, it did eventually,, not supposed to get crazy soaked, right?

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I use a bigger 4 port pump and 4 air wands, and get (of course) way more bubbles than you show. Even with 4 wands there are some spots that I would like to get more wet. There are "hot spots". 10-15 minutes to get the underside of the lid misty should work just fine. You just might want to make your pump on time a little longer, or leave it on. This is one reason I say that the pump cycles should be determined through experimentation. Everyone's system is a little different. The problem for me would be the hot spots. Ideally the entire surface of the water should be bubbling, instead of more like two lines of bubbles. I'm not picking on you or trying to find fault. I think you did a great job. You asked. I told.