Printable View
The wait will be way too long for far too many people. Not everyone can wait. What about people with cancer? So they have to wait longer for chemo and surgeries? I dont freaking think so. I assure you, of the stories of waits Ive heard, where women with breast cancer have to wait weeks and longer for chemo that they could have here in a matter of a few days, those days matter. I am damn sure not waiting if I get cancer again. Screw that. No freaking way.
I see greater love for ones country from a person who acknowledges its faults and wants to change them, than a person who thinks patriotism is blind obedience to the administration and acceptance of the status quo.
Much like the movement to legalize cannabis, I believe it's the duty of any patriot to constantly strive to accomplish change for the better. Such actions and beliefs hardly warrant condemnation and demanding they leave the country. Patriotism is not loyalty to the current administration, or adherence to tradition, it is loyalty to the people who make up ones nation and an effort to improve their way of life.
Only people that need the free healthcare will have to wait. If you go to a private clinic (where you have to pay) it won't be that way....the government-run (free) clinics are for those that cannot afford for a better/faster option. You didn't read my entire post.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
ugh, this is nuts. This thread isnt really going anywhere. Im gonna go smoke and maybe come back. If not I will tommorow and hash this out. Im all politic'd out.
This thread is going nowhere? I thought I just brought up a really good point. You seem to get frustrated when someone asks you to explain yourself thoroughly or has a good counter-argument....Quote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
No what I meant is that even if we go back and forth this whole night, which im sure is what would happen if I chose to continue this tonight, what is gained? No ones mind is changed. Its nothing but arguing. Its getting pointless. Ill come back tommorow and continue but for right now im just not feeling it anymore. I just want to focus on the lighter threads and smoke. Ive been here ALL day arguing. I think I deserve some smoke time. How about you do the same.
I wouldnt mind continuing, but I gotta go to Redding tomorrow (ugh 100+ heat) and need to crash early.
yeah bush is fucked. he's a war criminal in every sense of the term. the evidence is overwhelming even for that against a president..sucks to be him
As much as I agree with you and would like to see it happen, (prosecution) It never will. Money talks and bullshit walks as they say, and the Bush family are Mayflower descendents that are Billionaires. So GW will get a pass and live out his days on his ranch in Crawford, with full presidential priveledges. That is another reason for impeachment. At least then, we wouldn't have to use Tax dollars to protect and transport him for the rest of his days.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Justburn 247
Sorry, I just found that funny, but maybe you guys have had history teachers that would make that sentence make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
Bush on the Constitution: ??It??s just a goddamned piece of paper??
By DOUG THOMPSON
Capitol Hill Blue's The Rant: Bush on the Constitution: ??It??s just a goddamned piece of paper??
Dec 5, 2005, 07:53
Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.
Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.
GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.
??I don??t give a goddamn,? Bush retorted. ??I??m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.?
??Mr. President,? one aide in the meeting said. ??There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.?
??Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,? Bush screamed back. ??It??s just a goddamned piece of paper!?
I??ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution ??a goddamned piece of paper.?
And, to the Bush Administration, the Constitution of the United States is little more than toilet paper stained from all the shit that this group of power-mad despots have dumped on the freedoms that ??goddamned piece of paper? used to guarantee.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, while still White House counsel, wrote that the ??Constitution is an outdated document.?
Put aside, for a moment, political affiliation or personal beliefs. It doesn??t matter if you are a Democrat, Republican or Independent. It doesn??t matter if you support the invasion or Iraq or not. Despite our differences, the Constitution has stood for two centuries as the defining document of our government, the final source to determine ??in the end ? if something is legal or right.
Every federal official - including the President - who takes an oath of office swears to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.?
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says he cringes when someone calls the Constitution a ??living document.?
??Oh, how I hate the phrase we have ??a ??living document,? Scalia says. ??We now have a Constitution that means whatever we want it to mean. The Constitution is not a living organism, for Pete??s sake.?
As a judge, Scalia says, ??I don??t have to prove that the Constitution is perfect; I just have to prove that it??s better than anything else.?
President Bush has proposed seven amendments to the Constitution over the last five years, including a controversial amendment to define marriage as a ??union between a man and woman.? Members of Congress have proposed some 11,000 amendments over the last decade, ranging from repeal of the right to bear arms to a Constitutional ban on abortion.
Scalia says the danger of tinkering with the Constitution comes from a loss of rights.
??We can take away rights just as we can grant new ones,? Scalia warns. ??Don??t think that it??s a one-way street.?
And don??t buy the White House hype that the USA Patriot Act is a necessary tool to fight terrorism. It is a dangerous law that infringes on the rights of every American citizen and, as one brave aide told President Bush, something that undermines the Constitution of the United States.
But why should Bush care? After all, the Constitution is just ??a goddamned piece of paper.?
I wasn't necessarily trying to change your mind. I was trying to show you that you couldn't back up your opinion with a single relevant fact. Sure it's legal in this nation to have an opinion with no facts, but *it shouldn't be socially acceptable to have such strong of an opinion with no facts.*Quote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
I think you previously made a post along the lines of "If I was a character in one of those shows (you were talking about the info-tainment shows such as the daily show, colbert report, etc) I'd much rather it be Colbert." Judging from this thread, you're not too far off. I'm honestly not trying to piss you off. I just hope you can eventually learn from this and grow as a person. I'm not angry, and I hope you're not either.
I think this finally concludes my argument.
Gonzalez resigned this morning. He got out while he still could. Will Bush?
Quote:
EVEN REASONS TO SUPPORT George W. Bush
1. George W. Bush has worked with Congress, unlike the Democratics there now.
2. George W. Bush led us into a legal war, because Iraq broke the Gulf War agreements.
3. George W. Bush has engineered a flourishing economy.
4. George W. Bush has to work with the most corrupt congress in American history.
5. George W. Bush has legally spied on American citizens thank goodness!
6. George W. Bush has had to work to stop terrorists who fight with no rules.
7. George W. Bush has istilled pride in our military .
1. Laughable, at best. The Dems are no longer a marginalized party and are acting like it. America got fed up with Republicans running a rubber-stamp Congress to please Bush's idealogical agenda. Blame the Dems if you must, but it just makes you look uninformed in the worst partisan sense. If you have a problem with a bill not going through due to not having enough votes behind it, then you have a problem with democracy - sorry!
2. Always love it when people resort to semantics and the letter of the law to distract away from the more telling aspects of the invasion. It speaks volumes that so much deceit was used. Downing Street Memo anyone? Yellow cake from Niger? WMD? Anyone? Some people don't have a problem trading American lives for short-term prosperity - they should just come out and say it instead of trying to justify the insane via legalese.
3. LOL! A democrat is in office when the economy is good and it's 'the president doesn't affect the economy!' Throw a repub in office and any recovery is automatically the fruits of his labor. Too funny. Also, a man who's driven personal businesses into the ground and doesn't know the difference between MedicCare and MedicAid didn't "engineer" anything. Please, lay off the AM talk radio - bad for the brain!
4. Yes, the record holder for vacation time in office really shored up a lot of respect with tolerating those damned dirty Democrats like Abramoff, DeLay, Foley, and Pombo. Oh...wait...
Then again, with an admin like this which has taken secrecy, cronyism, and contempt for rule of law to all new heights, it's kinda expected no?
5. Right, legal as long as you keep FISA and the Constitution out of the equation - but other than that, yep, perfectly legal. :wtf:
6. Ugh, now that's a disgusting proclamation. Bush took a cue from Osama's wishbook and did exactly what AQ wanted to do from the get go: draw us into an occupation of a poor muslim country. But hey, look on the bright side, at least it diverted funds and assets from the real fight in Afghanistan whilst simultaneously flushing our global outpouring of sympathy down the crapper. Yes, thank goodness for that savvy George Bush.
7. Let's forget for a moment the natural question of how AWOL Bush could instill pride in the very military he ran away from... Yeah that Abu Graibh thing turned out great for us. I myself get a great patriotic feeling when I consider that Bush and his handlers view our enlisted as expendable assets in elective wars, wars waded into with no exit strategy mind you. As I remember the GOP talking points during the Clinton years in regards to Kosovo, the hypocrisy and irony is just overwhelming!
Oh and rebgirl, I like you sweetie, but please - if you're going into history teaching I respectfully request you hit the books some more and check your politics at the door. Vietnam started with Eisenhower, not Kennedy. To compare Kennedy with Bush is asinine, not just completely stupid. Any US history professor worth his or her salt wouldn't dare to compare anyone to Bush save Hoover, or Taft, maybe Carter. Not with a straight face anyway... ;)
Bush is a lame duck president who has screwed this country and it's people more ways than I have space here to articulate it. I wish you guys would stop trying to put lipstick on that pig. And I say that as a moderate conservative with a history of voting for republicans (except for, I'm very proud to say, GWB).
Excellent post. ^^
Stay high.
good post bluedevil, i heard there was a rabbit loose in conspiracy forum, he sure could used your help.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevil
i gave u ur 3rd dot yayy.. so what does the rep mean? i mean is it good to have all the dots? or im not sure..
Wow, thanks guys. *bows* Your plaudits humble me.
Mmmmm, Rep....what do I get when I level up? More spells? More hit points? Better saving throws? Heh. My chipmunk already has an Acorn of Smiting +12, can't wait till he's high enough to use it! :D
I'd buy those papers, and I'm Canadian :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt215
I do, desperately, want that guy in the white house.
All Bill Clinton did was smoke a jay (who doesen't?) and get some head (again who doesen't?).All bush did was kill a couple thousand soldiers,invent a warrentless wiretapping program to monitor "terrorists",And still make a complete jackass of himself in public at all times.I'd rather have Bill back any day.:hippy:BUCK FUSH!!!
Dubyuh will certainly be remembered as the worst ever for many reasons. Cheer leading torture and other war crimes, allowing an entire metro to die in its own waste, replacing all legitimate scientists with incompetent loyal hacks,(FDA anyone?), Firing judges in mid term for purely political reasons, vetoing vital stem cell bills, transparent election fraud, etc. America becoming a third world nation by health care standards may be his most enduring domestic legacy. It's not just the losers who end up broke and destitute. One illness away from destitution baby.
Just today, one of Dubyuh's most loyal sycophantic worshipers and rubber stampers was exposed as the biggest hypocrite on the planet. The Minnesota airport toilet gay sex scandal man- Larry Craig. He must have a black, putrefying sick soul. This must match that of his hero-and possibly fantasy lover- The Smirking Chimp- GWB.
You can't hate the guy because he's a bad speaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt the Funk
7 reasons to support bush...nice. now lets roll out the "592,867,092,520 reasons not to support bush" thread :D
don't you mean 592,867,092,521 reasons? I mean tomorrow is another day....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit Lion
And you can't pass off his idiocy and ignorance as 'speaking badly.' Bush has demonstrated time and time again that it's not just a kind of dyslexia he has, but also a complete and utter lack of intelligence over the many issues presidents are supposed to be at least somewhat fluent in.Quote:
You can't hate the guy because he's a bad speaker.
If you're feeling up to it, please explain how 'speaking badly' accounts for his 4th grade level knowledge in geography, history, foreign policy, economics, law, environmental sciences, etc.
Let's face it, George W. Bush is a dimwit. A man who cannot talk about education without making a humiliating grammatical mistake ("The illiteracy level of our children are appalling"); who cannot keep straight the three branches of government ("It's the executive branch's job to interpret law"); who coins ridiculous words ("Hispanos," "arbolist," "subliminable," "resignate," "transformationed"); who habitually says the opposite of what he intends ("the death tax is good for people from all walks of life!") sounds like a grade-A imbecile.
I won't get into the many horrible decisions he's made that lead me to the same conclusion, there's just too many of them and I doubt any of us have the time or the patience to peruse through 20pages+ of failure and embarrassment. Hell, at this point I'm trying to forget!
But to say that speaking badly fully encapsulates Bush's criticisms is as intellectually dishonest as it is hilarious. In fact, I think stating such would indicate the speaker is either hopelessly partisan or has simply been living under a rock for the last 6 years!
But hey, being the nice guy I'm perfectly willing to read anything and everything that might have people thinking otherwise. Bring on GWB's personally crafted economic remedy to our Social Security woes, saddle up his thesis on quantum mechanics that he wrote in French, I guess I just missed'em somehow.
You're much to hard on George and his linguistic skills BlueDevil. Haven't you heard his latest speach? It was a piece of pure brilliance and originality;
"We're staying the course in Iraq. We're spreading freedom. Freedom and liberty, protecting you against terrorists. Protecting your freedom, against terrorists, to protect your liberty. We're doing it by staying the course, staying the course to promote freedom.... and liberty.... protecting your freedoms. Terrorists hate freedom, we have to protect your freedom, by spreading liberty. Staying the course and uh.... protecting your freedoms... from terrorists...."
(Thus covering the full extent of his speeches)
Bush sucks. The Guy is an imbecile. Now that his brain has left, I wonder what great speeches he has for us. I so hope that Impeachment is racheted up. That is the only real chance we have of getting the Bastard. Hey, that wonderful person Richard Cheney, you know, the Dick, wouldn't he make a wonderful president? I'm sure he could find a few more countries to go to war with, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, North Korea. there are plenty of suspects.
I am a republican, I am even conservative (with the acception of my beliefs on weed), and I am also in the US Army and after reading those reasons why to support Bush, it made me sick. Bush has been a horrible president from the start, so here are the reasons why not to support Bush:
1. He handled 9/11 completely wrong, and used Afghanistan to throw off our attention and then quickly scapegoat Iraq.
2. He led us into a war with no purpose and loose reasoning behind it.
3. Because of the war, 1000s of American soldiers are being killed yearly for a lost cause.
4. He is trying to change countries that don't accept change very well.
5. He still hasn't caught Osama Bin Laden.
6. The patriot act is an invasion of privacy and completely disregards the constitution.
7. The Supreme Court Judges he elected also don't listen to the Constitution.
8. No Child Left Behind has so many problems with it, that getting rid of it would give students a better chance in succeeding.
9. Right now the national debt is higher than it has ever been.
10. Did nothing about Hurrican Katrina for at least a week.
11. He hasn't legalized marijuana.
YEAH GREAT IDEA lets list off the things we love about george bush!!
1.............
oh wait, theres nothing.
i guess it is pretty cool that hes cracking down on not only pot growers and dealers, but the pot abusers too! i mean, the less of that crap in our country the better, george bush is a great man for focusing on the pot problem. i mean, its so much worse than all those perscription pills that are being abused, and that mesely little meth problem. just kidding
also, many of my friends have DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL becuase of his stupid no child left behind shit. school doesnt need to be any more challenging than it already is
Bush is insane and anyone who supports the warmongering redneck should be locked up for everyones safety IMO.
3. George W. Bush has engineered a flourishing economy.
ha ha ha...
U.S. National Debt Clock
Good Game?
I'm definitely a Democrat, but you're right on the money with this point. I'd like to see somebody go on the street with a camera Jay Leno-style, go up to random people of voting age, and first ask them what they thought about Bush. Then (ostensibly after they've stated how much they hate him), ask them a whole bunch of basic questions about the government like, "What's the Vice President' name?" or "What's the Speaker of the House's name?" or "How many Supreme Court Justices are there?" or "Name a bill that Congress has passed under George Bush." I think the results of such an impromptu quiz would just how little the average person knows about why they bash Bush (although there are certainly PLENTY of good reasons to do so). Oh, and just to further illustrate how clueless many Bush bashers are, at the end of the interview you could ask each person if they voted in the last election.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
Now, as far as national healthcare goes, I'm not exactly the most gung-ho supporter of it, but I definitely see its merits and I disagree with people who say things like, "why should I have to pay for somebody else's healthcare?" The truth is, taxpayers already pay a lot of money towards things that benefit others but not necessarily themselves.
Some of our taxes go towards public schools, and you don't get to avoid paying just because you've already graduated. Other parts of our taxes go towards roads, and you don't get to avoid paying just because you don't have a car. Hell, in a lot of cities some of your taxes goes toward building gaudy monstrosities of stadiums so groups of multi-millionaires can play games inside them (and this is coming from a big sports fan).
If people are fine with their taxes going toward these things even if they don't take advantage of them, what is so unfathomable about putting money toward a national healthcare system? I mean, one could argue that privatizing the education industry would result in a higher standard of education (more incentive for teachers to become more qualified, more resources would be devoted to developing better textbooks, etc.), but I think most people would agree that the benefit of making education "free" to everyone offsets the possible improvements that privatization would cause.
To me, it stands to reason that the things all taxpayers should be forced to chip in for should be those that are closest to being true [B]necessities[B] (like the police), as opposed to being [B]luxuries[B] (like ridiculously expensive sports stadiums or, to a much much lesser extent, roads). I think it's hard to refute that healthcare is more of a necessity than just about anything else, even education.