Some of my issues with "intelligent design."

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Originally Posted by Billionfold

I don't see why things have to be logical to be true.

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Because logic is not an exclusive human invention, it is only a human understanding. Logic is not what we already know, it is not a limitation on our understanding of reality, it is a means by which we can understand our existence.

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If you have to have cold hard facts to believe, you're missing out on a wonderful feeling.

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Logic is often portrayed as "cold" and "hard" which turns a lot of people off, though it is anything but. Logic isn't about measuring everyting by means already discovered, it's about finding new ways to look at things, new ways to understand how the universe really works. Being a "wonderfull feeling" doesn't make something true, it just gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. There are those of us who find a great mystery and wonder in life by not surrenderinr ourselves to fuzzy feelings, but through searching for the truth constantly and always pushing the limits of what we supposedly know. If you just throw logic out the window, you're not "opening up" to the universe, you're passively sitting back while the world passes you by rather than emracing it and seeking to discover its mysteries.

Everything is possible, but that doesn't make everything plausible. If you want the possible to be plausible, that's where exploration comes in.

I'm glad Mr Devious and Billionfold can at least have an argument about this subject that is sensible to both sides. However, Stemis, you look like a fucking idiot. Are you even reading the posts above you? If you want to argue your point, answer Mr Devious's questions or try and say why you think that they're wrong. Stop just answering questions with questions or making statements that go off the topic of what he asked.
Continue...

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Originally Posted by Stemis516

the flaw in ur logic is that u accept evolution to be 100% true without a doubt in ur mind

gravity is 100% true, thats why its called a law....show me a person who doubts the existence of gravity plz

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First off that wouldnâ??t be a flaw in my logic it would be a flawed conclusion! Which would be caused by a false premise. anyways


as I said, you clearly are not reading what I write. Remember a few posts ago when I said:

â??No one in science believes that anything â??is complete and infallible factâ?�
Only religious people believe things like that.â?�

I do not accept evolution to be 100% true. That is not how science works. I currently believe evolutional theory because it is the best explanation. If something in the future better explains the facts I will believe that. Something replacing evolution is very unlikely because it explains such a daunting body of data.

Again Iâ??ll say it, in science nothing can be proven 100%. Things can only be supported and falsified. Evolution is very strongly supported.
The theory will probably be changed but the fundamental part of it (that species change and become new ones) will not change, it is too strongly supported by evidence

And again, you show that you do not understand science. Law of Gravity isnâ??t 100% true. Itâ??s funny that you believe that gravity is true when evolution is. He he he

The word gravity is just a name for a phenomenon. How can a name be true or false? Names are arbitrary so they are all true!

If you mean the theory of gravity you probably mean Newtonâ??s law of gravity

Newtonâ??s law of gravity is a equation that describes the relationship between the velocity of an object in freefall and time. It actually isnâ??t very accurate. It is only somewhat accurate a few km from the earth surface at speeds less than ½ the speed of light and so on.

Stemis, you keep saying that evolutionists can put lots of evidence behind evolution. But you belittle this by saying that intelligen design supporters can too. I beg of you, please put some support for I.D. forward. I doubt you have anything significantâ?¦

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Originally Posted by ate

You gotta admit, it's a pretty intelligent design.

I mean who could come up with a design that actually evolves based on it's environment.

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This is a valid point, Creationism doesnâ??t conflict with evolution. They are both true if god created the universe then evolution took place.

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Originally Posted by Billionfold

I don't see why things have to be logical to be true. If you have to have cold hard facts to believe, you're missing out on a wonderful feeling. .

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I donâ??t necessarily believe that things have to be logical to be true.
Bush got elected, that wasnâ??t logical but itâ??s trueâ?¦:rasta:


But I do think beliefs should be based in logic.
I really donâ??t like using the word logic, people have put it up on to high of a pedestal.
Anyways, the opposite of logic is irrational.

So if you are not basing a belief on logic it is an irrational belief to have.

A belief produced by logic is a belief of which one has reason to have.

Billonfold, do you believe that beliefs need to be based in logic? Because that is what we are talking about here.

Regardless of the existence of god. Should one believe in god? I donâ??t think so. I think this because I believe there is a large gap between the evidence and our observation and drawing the conclusion that god exists.

What do you think?

I'd just like to point out to any creationists out there, that I will not be a condescending asshole and say "yeah! see! I told you so, I'm right, I'm the winner, blah blah blah blah....". I can't stand it when people do that. I hold these discussions solely for the purpose of engaging, and encouraging others, to have philisophical discussions and have hopefully make us all questions our suppositions and give our brains a workout.

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading MrDevious's and harris7's posts....Stemis516, you basically keep making yourself look like an idiot, like Kippo said.

Carry on fellas.

look im done with this conversation because i dont care enough, or have enough organization or the time to put together a legit post with sources and all kinds of evidence....besides whats the point when i could make a good arguement and it wouldnt sway any1....im satisfied with my what i think and thats enough for me

let me just take the time to at least salute devious and harris for being reasonable and mature about the situation


however for the children who have nothing to say but yet still feel they can fling mud just because they think they are funny....well good game, is all i can say to that

billion. i'm talkin to you too about non religious things too

look 5 posts up

or will it be 6 once i post this hmmmm

God works in mysterious ways...just kidding. You make some good points Mr D, I think everyone who has faith in an organized religion does so for one or more of these reasons.

1. Hardwired as a child
2. Can't accept the unknown.
3. Tramatic experience, had no one to turn to but "God"

I think if religion wasn't a strong influence in someones life and if they were able to think without bias most wouldn't believe. I have yet to find someone who doesn't fit in one of the three categories. I don't believe in any man made god but don't discredit a superior alien race that could act as a "god".