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it seems to me like the only people who read the whole bible are athiests (or a christian w/ no reading comprehension skills). the entire thing is just smut man, not even the good kinda smut but the cheap ass 40 year old herpe infested heroin junkie kinda smut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
israelites are killing for land, gods killing people for sport.
any christian who read leviticus or deturanomy knows that the punishment for practically any disobedience to the law is death.
Howdy Oneironaut,
You therorize:"So what do two people of differing religions do when they meet each other? Say, for example, a Christian happens upon a Muslim. They discuss their differing belief systems, and realize they have quite a dilemma on their hands: they both have gods who claim that disbelievers in the One True Religion will be severely punished in the afterlife. And yet these are two very different gods with different rules about human affairs, different stories about how the universe works, different demands for its believers. So they can't both be right. They might try to argue the points for a while, with such arguments as "Allah makes me feel tingly when I pray" and "my cousin Joe swears he saw an image of the Virgin Mary in a grilled cheese sandwhich", but soon they will realize that they're in an even bigger dilemma than they started out in â?? it looks like neither of them is right, or at least that neither God is willing to come out and offer proof of his existence. They just can't seem to dig up any arguments that will make everybody believe in whichever God they grew up believing in.
So they result to the only thing which can possibly resolve such a dispute: violence. "
The koran demands that it's followers slay all infidels,non-muslims and non-believers,to decieve them and wait for the moment to slash their throat,whereas,a Christian is expected to turn the other cheek and to overcome Evil with Good..not react with violence or deception.
When I lived and worked in Saudi,one of the biggest no-no's,was to mention God or Christ on the street or anything to do with Christianity. We couldn't say Grace before we ate in public..we were hated every moment for being Christians and there was no peaceful intentions in any muslim that we met there.
The defense of the Free World,is a just war..that over 98% of all conflicts in the world,are because of muslim jihadism,is not coincidental. The koran demands that the world be converted to a state of Darfur..an islamic caliphate.
What say you ?
Have a good one ....
I don't disagree with you at all that Islam is a very dangerous and violent ideology, but trying to replace it with Christianity is only going to make things worse. All religions that make dogmas of unprovable claims about the universe are the problem. Islam is a particularly militant and intolerant strain of faith, but all faith needs to be extinguished and replaced with the light of reason and logic. As long as people pretend their unproven guesses about how the universe works are absolute fact, there will be religious conflict. We need to abandon religion and embrace science. It's the only hope our species has if it wants to survive in a technological age.
Howdy Torog,
i dont recall seeing you post in the spirituality boards much, but it sure is nice to see a new face every once and a while! :D i hope you feel at home! :D
Have a good one...
:D
sounds to me like muslamic is a faith in a diety, whose power relys on the efforts of believers.
almost like another form of satanism, but i know that to be mostly false, though in appearance they are a petty and single minded religion, they are deeper than the skin shows, the same goes for all religions truly, it is only that the majority of followers are deulded and conditioned to believe and interpret the religion(s) improperly :(
Yeah true, according to the Bible if your children are disobedient, you have to stone them to death. Some "good book" that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by juggalo420
Exodus 21:15 and 21:17
Leviticus 20:9Quote:
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21Quote:
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Even Jesus agrees with this, when he says this in Matthew 15:4Quote:
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
So, if you want to be "true Christians", Torog and Mellow Man, you ought to start by stoning to death your children next time they disobey you.Quote:
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But then again, the Bible is really just the history of the people of Isreal, as written by themselves. The New Testament is, in effect, just an appendix. It's just a place where that particular people wrote down and gathered their laws, their customs, and their justification for waging war on other peoples. In other words, it's like revering and basing a religion on a bad history book.Quote:
Originally Posted by juggalo420
Because in the end, that's what it all boils down to. God is nothing more than an attempt at rationalizing a people's actions... "God told us to do it, he said it was OK, God commanded me to kill all the women and children of those filthy Canaanites." It's an argument that's been used for 3,000 years, and it's still used today (e.g. Bush). And I don't care how condescending this sounds, but religious people are truly childlike. You need to be childlike to believe in these stories, because if you're an adult and you act like a responsible, intelligent, reasonable and inquisitive adult, it's INEVITABLE that you will discover the core of religion: BULLSHIT.
I stand firm in my belief that religion has contributed NOTHING good and meaningful to society except for fear, misery and death. It makes people accept misery during their lives with the promise of a better life after death (but of course, if you kill yourself, it doesn't count...). Religion has brought nothing but strife, division and conflict wherever it rears its ugly head; the Middle East (Arabs and Jews are both semitic peoples, their languages are very similar, they are essentially one people that split up years ago), Northern Ireland, the wars of religion that ravaged Europe about 400 years ago, the Pakistan-India conflict... These and many more are nothing but people being blinded by their "faith" (is there an uglier word?) to do actions of unspeakable horror.
Forget the after-life, concentrate on your present life! After you die, you won't feel anything. If you want to believe there's a place where spirits go, fine, but like I said, that's amazingly childlike. But don't sacrifice your present life for the benefit of something which nobody knows anything about. It's stupid. There is no judge, there is no hell, YOU ARE YOUR OWN JUDGE.
Sorry for the long post, but thoughts are occurring to me as I write. It seems to me that religion, apart from everything said above, also serves another purpose: It releases individuals from any kind of responsibility. It makes people think that they are not in control of their lives, some "higher power" is. Again, it comes back to the question of the childishness of religon. Only children shy away from responsibility. A rational, intelligent, inquisitive adult takes responsibility, he takes control of his actions and of their consequences. He is not worried about an afterlife, because that's just what it is: after-life. He knows that his "now-life" is the most important thing. Religion is the will to nothingness, it is the lack of any sort of responsibility. It tells you to sit back, be a good person, and God will take care of everything for you.
Well, I guess I ran out of steam, so... yeah.
I provided my cites in the previous post about what you were questioning me on(its not music obviously as the cites arent there if you'de checked the two other top threads meh , you might have found it. Sorry if that was too much work to click or look up my recent posts. Next time ill double post and provide cites in both threads ok? Yes it was quite broad in reaching (it was a 2 hour program its hard to go on about Jesus in the "factual" sense for 2 hours without much evidence (ie: in reality one passing statement that ONE man named Jesus pissed off ONE unknown roman senator who then had him pass judgement on him. If I was looking for a pastor named "John Smith". It would be fairly even in my hometown's phonebook to find one (population 100,000) the likelihood is high , very high. (like I wish I was now har har). I'm not saying that there was NO Jesus ever , just that current evidence suggests the biblical jesus is a farce. There were over 600 sects of what we call christianity today (of course they couldnt call it that back then as christ was supposedly still alive) it's the whole grey issue. I could claim anything about anyone with a common name for example (look at alexander the great so many people claim he did this and did that (not archeologists) and by proxy no I dont necessarily believe them either (not the archeologists but the claimants of alexander).
Plato and Socrates have secular writings about them and continued a long line of teachers. Who were consistent. The apostles disagree constantly (thats my problem) someone claiming fact when theres "Barely" a shred of evidence. I will admit the possibility but I'm not going to believe it till at least one more "shred" comes up or at least another shred corroborates it. I certainly wouldnt convict a man cuz I "thought" he was the guy (but no other evidence).
Also sorry I forget threads move but all 4 are packed together. I didnt realize reading my arguements (that are exactly the same as the one in here was too difficult).
Nice attempt on the cheap shot basically calling me a "fundamentalist atheist" it would be more accurate to say im an "asshole atheist" ;), as there is no "atheist doctrine" ;). I am an asshole about it , and ill fully admit it. The entire christian religion claims by its existence that I and 90% of the population will end up in hell...(completely illogical) that gay are unnatural (despite it being completely natural) and when you contradict science with postulations not backed by any facts I feel the need to respond. I'm sorry im not a bleeding heart type that cares about someone who has no idea about even his own religion but then tells other people about it....Shit I like mellow but the christ proselytizing meh , I call people on it. Just as you attempted to call me on my "spew" (and I do appreciate it if you can prove me wrong ill be the first to admit it on any subject).
Once again I've done more than just leaf through the book (all 14 versions) I used to be a christian as a child (forced indoctrination). I'm not denying history to any extent. But feel free to throw a few more veiled insults around with a false analogy I'll be happy to respond :).
(for reference some claim the Q documents claim jesus was a buddhist as well as other crazy and unconfirmable claims...I dont see the correlation nor how that would prove a religious teacher named Jesus existed at this exact time you say (and the bible says) but I will concede perhaps one of the over 600 sects had a "jon smith" that was written about so technically I will retract my statement that there's no proof for any Jesus I'll definitely concede that). However I seriously doubt any christian is talking about "jesus the guy who was just a man who taught a certain small sect of jewish folk something during the roman empire".)
I also forgot the q documents are not considered "historical facts" by the community (archeologists , anthropologists , etc. In fact Kloppenborg is neither the first to try and find stratification in said documents nor the first to be disavowed and shot down by others like the rest of the community.) you can insert where it says kloppenborg any of the following names as well that have been discredited (Siegfried Schultz,Arland Jacobson,Dieter Luhrmann the list goes on) When in fact even these people (several in original german) didnt even claim it proved anything to anyone just that it might be a WAY of finding a neutral time line for such previous claims. Not even the claim itself. So no I dont put much weight behind them but I'm still willing to admit "jesus" existed , but just some guy named jesus (not even necessarily a teacher). It would be akin to me denying that "john smith" lives in the town im currently in (any Jon smith).....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Your correct my friend! Jesus was the opposite of alot of the old testement teachings! thats why Jesus said I give unto you a new gospel!......Jesus came to make the law truth not back up the old Law!...............Moses says eye for an EYE jesus says you shall bring no harm to any man?????? I could go on forever with this stuff......................Weirdo is one of those people who hang out in atheist boards all the time lookingh for good stuff to arm himself with lol.....but yet has not even grasp the Bible or Christ!.......he didn't even understand the parable,metaphor about the tree that didn't bare fruit!....so that tells me alot there.............peace...
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
Paul never started the christian faith???? where you get that too? he taught unto gentiles and others,as well did peter,and ther rest of the apostales...paul played a bigger role then most of the select! but was only serving his master who was Christ.......Therefore paul pushed for Christ not paul! therfore it was Christ who put fourth paul on the road of teaching the truth!...........................but lets not forget about all the saints over the 2000 years that also picked up the truth and headed out with the gospel! unto the world! ...........even if paul was here today he would probably tell you how wrong you are!...........