No ID Card, No Job

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

Time magazine of all things has a really interesting article about Iraq...

Sir Ivor Roberts, Britain's Ambassador to Italy, declared last September that the "best recruiting sergeant for al-Qaeda" was none other than the U.S. President, George W. Bush....

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...081392,00.html

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This was in the same article:


But as the trail of bodies that began with the first bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 continues to lengthen, we need to ask why the attacks keep coming. One key reason is that Osama bin Laden's "achievements" in standing up to the American colossus on 9/11 have inspired others to follow his lead.

this is interseting...the lessons the russians learned from the Afgan invasion...

The lessons the Soviet military drew were concise:

Insufficient intelligence;
The ability of small units to use terrain against large formations;
"Complete disregard" for the local populace and its reactions;
Failure to win the populace over to the regime;
Placing all reliance on a "military solution";
Long term combat operations degrading the military.

In short, the United States is fighting its own version of the war that, according to the the foreign policy intellectual establishment, either brought down or hastened the fall of the USSR.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/070105X.shtml

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

This was in the same article:


But as the trail of bodies that began with the first bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 continues to lengthen, we need to ask why the attacks keep coming. One key reason is that Osama bin Laden's "achievements" in standing up to the American colossus on 9/11 have inspired others to follow his lead.

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OK so why did we attack Iraq? Bin Laden was not there....why didn't we send more troops to Afganistan not pull them out. We did not even close the borders with Pakistan....Our leadership sucks!

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

Psycho....what about Korea, what about Pakistan they ARE nuclear capable...

WHat about Suadi Arabia that openly trains terrorist? All the "possible weapons" posts in the world does not justify lying to congress and the invasion...when we have so many other "really" dangerous countries to deal with...now we have used valuable resourses and lost the lives of our soldiers....we needed them. Now what?

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Here's one for Korea:

During the early Clinton years, hard-liners and so-called conservative hawks advocated a pre-emptive strike to halt North Korea's nuclear weapons development before it could field an atomic bomb. Instead of taking the hard line, President Clinton elected to rely on former President Jimmy Carter and decided to appease the Marxist-Stalinist dictatorship.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...7/164846.shtml

Pakistan:

Muslims VS. Hindu's on this one!

A regional showdown between India and Pakistan has riveted world attention for weeks because of the risk that the conflict could go nuclear.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0604/p01s03-wosc.html

What a wonderful world we live in! :D

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

OK so why did we attack Iraq? Bin Laden was not there....why didn't we send more troops to Afganistan not pull them out. We did not even close the borders with Pakistan....Our leadership sucks!

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Nuke scientists with prints in their gardens, bio labs on wheels, paying martyrs families for suicide bombings in Israel, raping of teen girls by Saddams boys, genocide of the Kurds and Shi'ites, etc.......Which one do you want to pick? :eek:

Lets not forget the fact that Saddam allowed Zarqawi to have training sites withing the borders of Iraq. NOW, etc............ :D

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

this is interseting...the lessons the russians learned from the Afgan invasion...

The lessons the Soviet military drew were concise:

Insufficient intelligence;
The ability of small units to use terrain against large formations;
"Complete disregard" for the local populace and its reactions;
Failure to win the populace over to the regime;
Placing all reliance on a "military solution";
Long term combat operations degrading the military.

In short, the United States is fighting its own version of the war that, according to the the foreign policy intellectual establishment, either brought down or hastened the fall of the USSR.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/070105X.shtml

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Big difference between the soviets trying to keep Afghanistan as one of their OWN providences as compared to us encouraging open elections, supplying training for an Afghan military, etc.

Nuke scientists with prints in their gardens, bio labs on wheels, paying martyrs families for suicide bombings in Israel, raping of teen girls by Saddams boys, genocide of the Kurds and Shi'ites...
.I understand what you are saying, that is ALL terrible but
none of it adds up to what was claimed by the Bushites and it is no where near as bad as the Saudis, Pakistan, Afghanistan or Korea.....we should have gone after Bin Laden....The person responsible for the terrorist cells we have now and the attack on our country...Bush has totally lost interest in Bin Laden. It is disgraceful. I don't like Clinton either...so throwing up his mistake is no defense...the Clinton's and the Bush's are from the same "Chinese" mold. They have sold out their country for profit.

the point to the article was not the methods of occupation being used but the resources expended...the Russians broke the bank with their Afgan war....

Are we doing the same in Iraq?

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

Nuke scientists with prints in their gardens, bio labs on wheels, paying martyrs families for suicide bombings in Israel, raping of teen girls by Saddams boys, genocide of the Kurds and Shi'ites...
.I understand what you are saying, that is ALL terrible but
none of it adds up to what was claimed by the Bushites and it is no where near as bad as the Saudis, Pakistan, Afghanistan or Korea.....we should have gone after Bin Laden....The person responsible for the terrorist cells we have now and the attack on our country...Bush has totally lost interest in Bin Laden. It is disgraceful. I don't like Clinton either...so throwing up his mistake is no defense...the Clinton's and the Bush's are from the same "Chinese" mold. They have sold out their country for profit.

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I don't think we have given up on Bin Laden:

US Seals 'got too close to bin Laden'
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2703,00.html

Defence Minister Abdul Rahim Wardak told reporters he thought bin Laden, al-Zawahri and Omar were "continuously on the run".

"They do not stay in one place for a long time and there is more possibility that they are on the other side," he said in reference to neighbouring Pakistan.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ISL270112.htm

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

the point to the article was not the methods of occupation being used but the resources expended...the Russians broke the bank with their Afgan war....

Are we doing the same in Iraq?

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I'd say no, since we invaded we have also trained over 160,000 Iraqis to take care of their own buisiness. (military) A day in the future they will completely handle the situation on their own. Hell, they even got the Iranians helping out with training now!