To sub or not to sub?

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Am I safe to smoke or should I wait until i start?

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Take it one step further...wait until the first paycheck. Just in case there is that unexpected retest due to whatever you done wrong or whatever the lab done wrong (ie; accidents involving the urine specimen).

And be on the lookout for Randoms, Post-Incidents, and "Reasonable Suspicions".

Passsed!!!!!!!!

Sub club for life.

Gonna go toke one. Just gotta fugure out if they do randoms. Got a good cover story to ask a coworker. Bout to get riiight. Thanks burnt!!!

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Originally Posted by hickory

Thanks, Ecupirate87. I'm beginning to feel the same way, but I'll elaborate on that in another post here in a sec.

For now, question for BURNT: I've done a lot of reading today but this statement from you still throws me: "even though their cutoffs numerically differ, a 50 ng assay screen is functionally equivalent to the 15 ng GC/MS."

Not sure I follow since I thought ng's were the unit of measurement that a test looked for, ie, if you're taking a 15ng test then you need to be at 14 or less to avoid detection, whereas if you're taking a 50ng test, you only need to be at 49ng's to avoid a positive. Is that not the case? Those two seem very different to me and my fear is that even as I test at home over and over and get negatives, that it may be only because I'm somewhere between 15-49 ng's (ie, not truly "clean"). And if that's the case, the wrong kinda test -- one testing down to 15ng's would blow me out of the water, right?

Seems like your saying it's standard for initial screens (aka: assay screen) to test only to detect > 50ng's and only if you fail that do they look harder and test to 15 ng's via the GC/MS but that other than that, both tests are functionally/procedurally the same?

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For me back in 2006 when I failed the test, I was 45ng and the cut off was 15ng. I would say with almost complete certainty that there is a big difference.
If you decide to sub as I did, heat up the pee in a plastic baggy in boiling water before transferring it into a 1 or 2oz shampoo bottle (plastic baggies are too noisy, trust me I tried to practice with them!) and crotch it...or I dunno what the male term for that is but you know, tuck it behind your sack or whatever. Remember they are standing outside the door, and you are supposed to start peeing and then put the container under you. What I did, was I only had to pee a little, so I peed a little, poured my sub in, and then let a bit more trickle into the toilet for realistic emphasis. Two days now and no call back. When I failed Quest in 2006, I got a call the very next day. Best of luck to the both of you!

Thanks, Anon. Today I bought some supplies and started experimenting a little with subbing. I got several small 3 oz travel bottles, a baby thermometer, some hand-warmers and some tighty-whiteys (a size smaller than I'd normally get for extra snug fit). Took my own sample and immediately took the temp: 97.6. Then I crotched it w/o any kind of warmer and monitored temp changes. Was surprise thatd after 15 min it'd already lost 2 full degrees and got a little worried that it'd be well below 90 by the time I could get to a lab and get in to test, but that was while I was mostly walking around and it wasn't super snug up in there. For the next 15 min I mostly sat with legs pressed firmly together and much to my delight it actually gained a degree back (to 96.2). I then had to run an errand driving so took it with me and when I was done 30 min later the temp had jumped even more all the way to 97.7, a tenth of a degree *warmer* than when it left my body. PERFECT.

So I'm no longer so worried about temp control: my body seems to keep it well above the required minimum and of course there's no way my body would OVER-heat it, so I believe I'm set without even worrying about the hand-warmers.

So now my biggest question is what to use as my sub: I have 3 oz of synthetic on order for delivery tomorrow and my buddy who lives out of town is coming in too. He'll pee for me and I'll fill two bottles just in case, and then immediately freeze them. Am a LITTLE worried about that though.

DOES ANYONE KNOW.... does the freezing/unfreezing process do any damage to the sample or produce any measurables that would let them know the sample wasn't fresh from a bladder, ie, that it had been frozen and then thawed? I like the idea of using real urine over synthetic, but since I'd have to freeze and then thaw I'm kinda leaning towards utilizing the synthetic. I'm going to do a little digging around to see what I see but if anyone has any success/failure stories with freezing or any scientific info around why that does/doesn't work, i'd greatly appreciate it!!