we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
I think we are on the same page.
I was saying that prior to 1284, your biggest competition would be a large scale home grow. I'm thinking of the guy in highlands ranch, or something on an even larger scale. There were no patient limits before so theoretically as long as you had the patients and paperwork, you could grow unlimited amounts of medicine right? Correct me if I am wrong. If that large scale home grow had better, higher quality than you, you'd likely be obligated to carry that medicine, probably at a premium cost. For example, wellspring's house strain is ingrid, and it's okay, but it's no pre98 bubba.
With 1284, that large scale home grow now has to either marry up with a dispensary and grow there, or pay to have the optional premesis license. Right? So it effectively crippled and ruined that large scale home grow. In my eyes, this legislation rewards you as a dispensary for becoming legit and paying your taxes. I would venture that large scale home grow isn't paying taxes anywhere along the line, and neither are the people he's providing medicine to. This legislation makes sure that the state gets tax revenue on as much of these transactions as possible.
I guess it's not really a move designed to protect MMC's and I can believe that they weren't responsible for it's being included. I have a feeling that the department of revenue wanted to make sure they got as big a piece of the pie as possible.
So, here we are. These large scale home grows, who are now operating outside the law, are the only ones who are really upset with 1284, or those growing for friends, etc. The rest of us will simply deal with it. I think. Maybe.
1284 was not about taxes, It was designed to kill off caregivers and give the big dispensaries a monopoly. Before 1284 was passed I had a few email exchanges with Romer proposing an idea how small growers could supply dispensaries and all transactions would be recorded for tax purposes. His response was it was 'the wrong people making the money' and that dispensaries have a more professional image and the ones that don't would be shutdown.
They could make a hell of a lot more revenue with 10,000 legitimate independent growers than a couple of hundred dispensaries but it was all about the wrong people making money.
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedleppelin
1284 was not about taxes, It was designed to kill off caregivers and give the big dispensaries a monopoly. Before 1284 was passed I had a few email exchanges with Romer proposing an idea how small growers could supply dispensaries and all transactions would be recorded for tax purposes. His response was it was 'the wrong people making the money' and that dispensaries have a more professional image and the ones that don't would be shutdown.
They could make a hell of a lot more revenue with 10,000 legitimate independent growers than a couple of hundred dispensaries but it was all about the wrong people making money.
You also need to realize, and might be missing, the fact that this guy is a politician, and he's in the business of saving his job. I think the politics of legal marijuana for medicinal use is still a pretty touchy subject, and these politicians have to act accordingly.
I don't think this legislation would have even passed if it weren't for all the scare tactics used by the media in the last year. Those undercover segments of people getting cards for ear aches, etc, all gave evidence that this industry needed reform.
It's unfortunate for you that the dispensaries got together to unify their message, like releaf said. Until you get your homegrow buddies together into some kind of organized group, don't expect anyone to listen to you. Again, the politicians are interested in votes and staying in office, and this legislation helps to minimize the fear mongering going on by anti MMJ people.
Are you suggesting that places like releaf, wellspring and the other large MMC's were in favor of vertical integration and growing on site or in industrial areas?
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
You also need to realize, and might be missing, the fact that this guy is a politician, and he's in the business of saving his job. I think the politics of legal marijuana for medicinal use is still a pretty touchy subject, and these politicians have to act accordingly.
Romers goal is to become mayor of Denver and eventually Governor of the state. His way to accomplish this is to get his name in the paper every time there is a big issue. Read how Denver Post columnist Susan Greene exposes him as the attention whore he is....
Greene: Overexposed Sen. Romer likes the limelight - The Denver Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
I don't think this legislation would have even passed if it weren't for all the scare tactics used by the media in the last year. Those undercover segments of people getting cards for ear aches, etc, all gave evidence that this industry needed reform.
You're confusing SB109 with HB1284.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
It's unfortunate for you that the dispensaries got together to unify their message, like releaf said. Until you get your homegrow buddies together into some kind of organized group, don't expect anyone to listen to you. Again, the politicians are interested in votes and staying in office, and this legislation helps to minimize the fear mongering going on by anti MMJ people.
Exactly what was the fear mongering that was being done for 1284? Nobody, including law enforcement was for the bill. During the 10 hour public hearing there were only 2 people that spoke in support of the bill, one was a dispensary and the other was someone that owns a MMJ testing center. The anti mmj people were against it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
Are you suggesting that places like releaf, wellspring and the other large MMC's were in favor of vertical integration and growing on site or in industrial areas?
Are you suggesting they werent in favor of it? You obviously werent paying much attention to the media blitz Josh Stanley went on when the bill was being debated. Who wouldnt be in favor of a law that makes you the only legal entity to produce and sell a product?
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Well... patients and caregivers can of course still grow as well, so dispensaries are hardly the only ones producing this product.
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Large scale home grows aren't scaring anyone. Centers are the future, not buying meds out of someones house or car.
You annoy the shit out of me. Centers are fucking up bad. The future is full legalization, and everyone growing there own so we dont have to pay $60 an eighth to some dispensary prick that doesnt know one thing about growing weed and pretending like its fucking medical and im a patient. Most of these dispensaries sell b grade, mite infested, moldy, warehouse bullshit, and lowball the basement growers who come with the FIRE. Do you know there are still more pot smokers without cards still, than with cards. Why should you have to pay a quack doctor, show 3 forms of id, and fill out 10 pages of paperwork just to buy a bag of homegrown smoke. Most of my friends that have cards cant afford to go to a "center". I sell quarters all day for $80, FIRE.
Basement bud will always be better than warehouse beasters.
The future is full legalization, and the economy is so bad we need small businesses, even home businesses. We dont need government MMJ centers, its not good for the economy. Basically the goverment is trying to take over the marijuana industry. If you work or by weed from a mmj center, you are supporting a corrupt government. You are supporting 1284. Keep the black :rastasmoke:market alive. Fuck taxes. They will use your taxes to fight more wars and make more unjust laws. Rebel. Chaos . Anarchy. Truth. Freedom. Burn Babylon
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Large scale home grows aren't scaring anyone. Centers are the future, not buying meds out of someones house or car.
Centers are not the future, full legalization, and patients buying out of their own house at half price of what you and the other centers charge is the future. You can't compete with caregivers offering meds at $225 oz ALL the way down to $28 8th's and $8 grams. I'll never step foot in your schwag shop ever again and I'll advise everyone else I know to do the same.
I can't believe some of these dispensaries on this forum are stupid enough to talk shit to patients and show time and time again how greedy they are. Seems like most of the older disp owners know better, its just the stupid kids that don't. We should boycott all the dispensaries, not just the stupid pricks that don't know when to keep their mouths shut. QUIT paying their outrageous prices, and don't buy any meds over $35 8th. Put these cocksuckers out of business!
It only makes sense that patients will go to the black market to get their meds before paying double or even tripple, its not even an option for most patients. Who the fuck can afford to pay some center prick $50-60 an 8th to medicate? Like I said, caregivers will be taking care of the real patients, and centers will be taking care of the recreational smokers.
I really hope the disps get shit canned eventually and the ones that made millions by ripping patients off take it up the ass in federal prison, it would only be fair after what they've done to the patients, and caregivers. The dispensaries have lobbied with the government to take our rights away and they need to be boycotted.
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedleppelin
Romers goal is to become mayor of Denver and eventually Governor of the state. His way to accomplish this is to get his name in the paper every time there is a big issue. Read how Denver Post columnist Susan Greene exposes him as the attention whore he is....
Greene: Overexposed Sen. Romer likes the limelight - The Denver Post
You're confusing SB109 with HB1284.
Exactly what was the fear mongering that was being done for 1284? Nobody, including law enforcement was for the bill. During the 10 hour public hearing there were only 2 people that spoke in support of the bill, one was a dispensary and the other was someone that owns a MMJ testing center. The anti mmj people were against it.
Are you suggesting they werent in favor of it? You obviously werent paying much attention to the media blitz Josh Stanley went on when the bill was being debated. Who wouldnt be in favor of a law that makes you the only legal entity to produce and sell a product?
I was referring to the general reefer madness that's been going on in the last couple of years, especially since last summer. Before last summer, there were no 9news investigations or anything like that. That was my point, and that in general, politicians in Colorado don't give a shit about medical marijuana, they want to get re-elected.
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
The way I saw and see the matter is this: caregivers cannot run a for-profit business because that would entail regulation, inspection, taxes etc. It's better this way without any of those kinds of oversight. I like that patients have all three options: for-profit retail, non-profit small growers, or self production. I also like the fact that caregivers can grow without ever seeing the face of a DPHE inspector, a cop, or a revenoor. That seems to me to be the intent of A20. (although I'm glad we also allow dispensaries!)
I agree.
Also...not all caregivers are beating MMCs in price or quality. Many of them at least charge the same and claim better quality. I've experienced this and heard of it with other patients.
B. Brown in Thornton gives no free meds and offers 300/ounces of only 2 different strains. And that's if he's your primary!!!! When price and variety were mentioned he got mad and said find a new caregiver I've already got copies of your paperwork, try craigslsit. Never heard from him again. There's a POS if you're looking for one. Should he get more patients? No.
I also agree with some others that mentioned not enough basement growers spoke up when it mattered.
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
well it's getting late i was thinking a caregivers union- offering newsletters and a website as a networking tool to have ideas in common with business for everyone from the 1 patient cg to the 3 warehouse guy, one common guide for everyone to use, find out about new laws for the union, show up on important days in court for support to the union , and vote to better structure the rules for all members in the union to benefit for the good!
benefits
law structure
sales tax strikes
legal info
shadycloud people here to help get it going who's with me
we need patients + caregivers advocacy
So I'm going to try to explain a few things as best I can:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedleppelin
Are you suggesting they werent in favor of it? You obviously werent paying much attention to the media blitz Josh Stanley went on when the bill was being debated. Who wouldnt be in favor of a law that makes you the only legal entity to produce and sell a product?
We never donated a cent to CMMR, COMMR, etc. The only organizations we've supported have been SAFER, NORML, the American Cancer Society, Food Bank of the Rockies, RTD and MMAPR. The last is one everyone should really keep their eyes on, they're going to be doing some great things.
We came out repeatedly against 1284 as I've mentioned in countless threads. http://boards.cannabis.com/colorado-...-governor.html for example. Please don't lump us in with the handful of dispensaries that really did have a say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversummer
You annoy the shit out of me. Centers are fucking up bad. The future is full legalization, and everyone growing there own so we dont have to pay $60 an eighth to some dispensary prick that doesnt know one thing about growing weed and pretending like its fucking medical and im a patient. Most of these dispensaries sell b grade, mite infested, moldy, warehouse bullshit, and lowball the basement growers who come with the FIRE. Do you know there are still more pot smokers without cards still, than with cards. Why should you have to pay a quack doctor, show 3 forms of id, and fill out 10 pages of paperwork just to buy a bag of homegrown smoke. Most of my friends that have cards cant afford to go to a "center". I sell quarters all day for $80, FIRE.
Sorry, my intent isn't to annoy the shit out of anyone. I just have a different point of view on things. You're absolutely right, there are some awful centers in there. We try to educate our patients on things to look for at other dispensaries when they shop around, we have blogs about it, how to tell if your bud has pests/mold/pm, tell them to black out the first five of their social, etc. If there is more education, these less reputable places go out of business.
When I (can afford to) go to traditional doctor for treatment, it's pretty much the same drill, right? You have to show the receptionist your ID and proof of insurance. You have to fill out a long patient history. You get the point.
Okay, let's say the MMC's close down. Scarcity becomes a huge issue because the remaining caregivers can't approach meeting the demand. Some who are new to medical marijuana have to turn to a black market they have no experience in and get swindled left and right.
Private caregivers prices go up because they have to provide all of the ancillary services MMC's did. They have to start making hash and edibles. They need delivery drivers, receptionists, waiting areas, security, more grow space, a whole host of things. I'm guessing we say bye to the $80 quarter.
Private caregivers aren't above any kind of scrutiny, either. I see them, all week long, bringing in buds with PM, mites, botrytis, and tell them that humans shouldn't smoke that. You think they're all just going home and calling it a loss? The truly greedy are the people who think they'll sink some money into their basement grow to make a quick buck, who cares if it's infested with bugs or mold? There's some dispensary rube out there that'll buy it! I see it all day long.
This is one area where the industry really let itself down: depending on people off the street to provide medical quality cannabis. There are a lot of patients that have never seen their caregiver again after signing up. Newbie growers that lost crops or, even worse, knowingly gave out bad meds out of fear they'd lose their patient. Caregivers selling patient information. Patients that have been through three, four different caregivers because of people like you that tell them to beware of all centers.
I'll get to legalization in a minute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboALLWD
Centers are not the future, full legalization, and patients buying out of their own house at half price of what you and the other centers charge is the future. You can't compete with caregivers offering meds at $225 oz ALL the way down to $28 8th's and $8 grams. I'll never step foot in your schwag shop ever again and I'll advise everyone else I know to do the same.
I can't believe some of these dispensaries on this forum are stupid enough to talk shit to patients and show time and time again how greedy they are. Seems like most of the older disp owners know better, its just the stupid kids that don't. We should boycott all the dispensaries, not just the stupid pricks that don't know when to keep their mouths shut. QUIT paying their outrageous prices, and don't buy any meds over $35 8th. Put these cocksuckers out of business!
It only makes sense that patients will go to the black market to get their meds before paying double or even tripple, its not even an option for most patients. Who the fuck can afford to pay some center prick $50-60 an 8th to medicate? Like I said, caregivers will be taking care of the real patients, and centers will be taking care of the recreational smokers.
I really hope the disps get shit canned eventually and the ones that made millions by ripping patients off take it up the ass in federal prison, it would only be fair after what they've done to the patients, and caregivers. The dispensaries have lobbied with the government to take our rights away and they need to be boycotted.
$35 an eighth? I always paid $50, but I may just not have known the right people. See what I said above on how caregivers would have to price if there was a boycott of MMC's.
The schwag shop part hurts. I feel like we consistently get great feedback on our selection and quality.
I go out of my way to be cordial on here. I've never called a patient a cocksucker or a stupid prick before, so could you afford me the same level of decency? Let's be real about what the situation is.
If you went to the grocery store and bought a can of coke, you're going to pay more per can than if you had bought a case. It's just simple economics. Grams/eighths are always going to be more expensive. The second, and key part, is that when prices fall that dramatically in one market, there is lag in a second. The black market. I don't want to see people redistributing MMJ on the street. It's illegal.
As for all centers pulling for 1284, I think the article in the Westword did a great job of exposing how few people were really crafting the language of this thing and the limited interests they represented. Sure, they took a lot of money from people, but they weren't asking those people what they wanted. It didn't matter, CMMR was setting the agenda. Feel free to ask any of the CMMR chairs/reps how many conversations they had with The Releaf Center leading up to 1284. It's zero.
Now, for full scale legalization...
You don't like centers?
Just wait for your new friends. They're named Monsanto and Cargill, PM USA and RJR, Pfizer and Merck.
Those guys have ALWAYS stood up for patients.
