WA State Card Renew

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Originally Posted by beaglebabe

Thanks for ALL of the comments!!!

I sent an email to
Kelley R Cargil
Customer Service Lead
Office of Customer Service
WA State Dept of Health
Ph 360-236-4774
Fax 360-236-4818
Visit our website Health Systems Quality Assurance Main Page - WA State Dept. of Health

This was her reply-



Good afternoon Carol-

The law does not require the recommendation to have an expiration date. The recommendation only expires if the health care provider has included an expiration date on it. Please have her discuss this with her health care provider.

More information is available on our website. I recommend reading the frequently asked questions from the link below. Thank you and please let me know if you have additional questions.

Link: Medical Marijuana Frequently Asked Questions - Washington State Dept of Health

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Even this won't stop the renew advocates. :D

I don't think anyone is saying you have to get a new card very year if yours doesn't have an expiration. What I am at least saying is that you need to have a real doctor patient relationship.

Ask the DoH if an authorization from 1999 without an expiration date, from a doctor you no longer see, who is no longer up to date on your current medical needs will still be valid. That's the question. Not whether or not the paperwork has to be redone every year, that isn't needed, but does that paperwork need to be from a current doctor who is treating you?

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Originally Posted by justpics

I don't think anyone is saying you have to get a new card very year if yours doesn't have an expiration. What I am at least saying is that you need to have a real doctor patient relationship.

Ask the DoH if an authorization from 1999 without an expiration date, from a doctor you no longer see, who is no longer up to date on your current medical needs will still be valid. That's the question. Not whether or not the paperwork has to be redone every year, that isn't needed, but does that paperwork need to be from a current doctor who is treating you?

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RCW 69.51A.030 states:

A physician licensed under chapter 18.71 or 18.57 RCW shall be excepted from the state's criminal laws and shall not be penalized in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, for:

(1) Advising a qualifying patient about the risks and benefits of medical use of marijuana or that the qualifying patient may benefit from the medical use of marijuana where such use is within a professional standard of care or in the individual physician's medical judgment; or

(2) Providing a qualifying patient with valid documentation, based upon the physician's assessment of the qualifying patient's medical history and current medical condition, that the medical use of marijuana may benefit a particular qualifying patient.

In order to be in compliance with this section, and benefit from the protections it offers, a health care professional's recommendation must be based not only on the patient's qualifying condition (medical records) but also their current medical condition.

It becomes more and more difficult for the authorizing health care professional to claim that their recommendation is based on the patient's current condition, when there is large gap of time between the date the recommendation was made and when it became necessary for the patient to prove they are legal.

So while the recommendation without an expiration date may be valid, it is up to the recommending health care professional to attest to it's validity.

Especially with the new requirements that require the recommendation be on tamper resistant paper with at least a date of issue, it seems naive to rely on the police or prosecutor to not check with the issuing health care professional as to the validity of an open-ended recommendation.

If you believe your recommending health care professional will put their license and freedom on the line for someone they last saw in the distant past then take the Dept. of Health at face value and rest assured that your open-ended recommendation will keep you safe.

Personally I'll take the sure thing of at least yearly contact with my authorizing health care professional.

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Originally Posted by justpics

I don't think anyone is saying you have to get a new card very year if yours doesn't have an expiration. What I am at least saying is that you need to have a real doctor patient relationship.

Ask the DoH if an authorization from 1999 without an expiration date, from a doctor you no longer see, who is no longer up to date on your current medical needs will still be valid. That's the question. Not whether or not the paperwork has to be redone every year, that isn't needed, but does that paperwork need to be from a current doctor who is treating you?

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The validity question would be determined by a court... DoH info is useful, but not legally binding. I think we are pretty much all agreed that by letter of the law the authorization would be valid... but it would be needlessly risky to depend on it when your freedom or money are on the line.

The " ONLY" operative part of the statute which applies to all "qualifying patients" is here:

(a) Is a patient of a physician licensed under chapter 18.71 or 18.57 RCW;

(b) Has been diagnosed by that physician as having a terminal or debilitating medical condition;

(c) Is a resident of the state of Washington at the time of such diagnosis;

(D) Has been advised by that physician about the risks and benefits of the medical use of marijuana; and

(e) Has been advised by that physician that they may benefit from the medical use of marijuana.

The 1 yr. issue is ad hoc by all whom use it, refer to it or even acknowledge it because it doesn't apply to any patients and is completely horditory...it could be seen as applying to practitioners whom sign as guidelines only when applied to any qualifying patient under the act...the act requires no more.

Washington courts have made it clear any criminal defendant cannot be found guilty for due process violations...the legislature never carved out any criminal liability for anyone of common-sense to glean from rcw 69.51A that a signed 1 yr. end date document is conduct which is criminal if not renewed or the end date has passed by....it "ONLY" requires one to have a washington licensed practitioner sign for a valid authorized condition(s) noted by the MQAC.

So logically speaking here, most clinics in wa. are Independent Medical Exams because one is required to already have a "diagnosis" BY A WA. ST. practitioner which differentiates from the norms of medical practice the act was intended for..i.e. qualifying patients specialized practitioner or general practitioner whom diagnosed the patient, which all mmj clinics in wa. require before seen..

The question then would logically be, does the clinic operate under the correct laws in order to establish the relationship of the signing practitione ?

The logical answer to this question would most likely be no. Because you pay the clinic owner whom is not a medical practitioner and not the practitioner whom is signing the authorization...wa. has a public policy that this shall not occur as it is fee-splitting which degrades the medical profession...

It would be arbitrary, capricious, ad-hoc enforcement otherwise of a 1 yr. mandate...

I do see why most think it is a "good-idea", the problem is, it isn't the law nor do the plain words of the act contain it. :wtf:

You know james, I too used to be into necrophilia, sado-masochism and beastiality, but then I realized, I was just beating a dead horse.:beatdeadhorse:


let it rest.

CARDS ARE NOT VALID IN WA STATE. ONLY TAMPER PROOF DOCUMNETATION W/ THE RCW STATUE ON IT,PLUS MORE ITEMS ARE REQUIRED TO BE A LEGAL DOCUMENTATION FOR MMJ. AS FAR AS A YEARLY RENEWEL,I WILL GET MINE RENEWED EVERY YEAR,WHY TAKE THE RISK OF GETTING IN TROUBLE AND FIGHTING IT IN COURT,IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?? NOT FOR ME!

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Originally Posted by tango244ns

CARDS ARE NOT VALID IN WA STATE. ONLY TAMPER PROOF DOCUMNETATION W/ THE RCW STATUE ON IT,PLUS MORE ITEMS ARE REQUIRED TO BE A LEGAL DOCUMENTATION FOR MMJ. AS FAR AS A YEARLY RENEWEL,I WILL GET MINE RENEWED EVERY YEAR,WHY TAKE THE RISK OF GETTING IN TROUBLE AND FIGHTING IT IN COURT,IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?? NOT FOR ME!

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For all new patients, yes tamper proof paper. For all others, the original authorization meets the standards and the letter of the law. Be scared into paying a yearly fee when you are not required by law, if you want. If you are sick, you are sick so what's your worry? If it went to the state budget, I'd pay a nominal fee, but to a doc in the box for profit, no way Jose. :D

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Originally Posted by justpics

You know james, I too used to be into necrophilia, sado-masochism and beastiality, but then I realized, I was just beating a dead horse.:beatdeadhorse:


let it rest.

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Sorry justpics,

I have never been into any of that which you mentioned. My response if you look at how the courts in all mmj states are ruling about the part of the acts which actually have any teeth and not just meaningless words which don't apply. They are horditory.

So not beating any dead horses, just giving a showing of reality which most miss here. Not leo scare tactics here. And the tamper proof documents just mean it satisfies the part in rcw 69.51A just like 69.50.308(e) prescription/vaild order of practitioner for medical purposes. As you should also note, the TP document only requires a "start" date, not a start and stop date i.e. 1 yr.

My primary care says the end date is invalid for regular practitioners whom have diagnosed for any of the life long conditions unless they don't trust their own medical judgement in the first place. life long chronic conditions do not revert back to normal after a true diagnosis in western medicine..i.e. cured!!


P.S. I no longer use any doc-in-the-box since the state made me aware they are not lawfully providing services. I use my regular practitioner.

The only thing you're missing the james is that you also have to have tried regular prescriptions for whatever your ailment is and they haven't worked.
So if you've been prescribed narcotics or nsaids and they make you throw up you're covered. A lot of people are opiate intolerant and can't take the regularly prescribed medications. And the synthetics usually aren't very good either.