My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room

Apollonia,
I must say that I am absolutely humbled by your abilities.
Your grow is vibrant, lush and happy. Not to mention your top notch genetics. The Breeders you mentioned in another thread are "bottled in bond" af far as I'm concerned.

M.P.

Damn me to hell...:mad:
I tried to give you rep, but ended up subtracting it!
May I ask why negative rep is the default choice?

Many, many apologies my friend.

arrrrrggggg.............

M.P.

Merry, your compliments mean so much to me and made my day (I'm just sorry about asking the mods to fix our reputation mishap, I didn't want you to think I took it badly - I'm just over "tidy" that way :( ) What you wrote absolutely made my day. I wish I could send you a PM. Your words mean much more than a silly rep button. :hippy:

11/1/09 Update - End of second week of flowering, first day of third week

Hi again. A few things to show this week: a lot of moving around was done, plus I put an emergency flush through my dutch bucket system - the pics will explain why. But overall, things seem to be on track as we move forward into the next phases of the grow. Also I got an eyeclops! There will be trichome pics in the future!

I've got my usual weekly update pics of the different groups, but I want to devote most of this week's update to problems I've been having with one plant: my Cinderella 99 'grapefruit'. So here is a quick Update of Group 1 plus some random pretty photos from Group 1.

Group 1 General Update Photos:

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Pineapple Canopy

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Pineapple Greenery

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The smaller plants in group 1

11/1/09 Update Group 1 C99 'grapefruit' woes

I realize this could be over reaction of an over-anxious "parent," the place where the perceived damage is is also the part of the plant that faced away from the vegging light - but it could be something more...

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This is C99 'grapefruit' in full, I separated her from the others with a cardboard divider to show a clearer picture of the plant

As to the health of C99 'grapefruit' from Group 1, I couldn't say what is happening for certain and it is curious because whatever is effecting her is only effecting her and not the other plants in the system.

The best way to start to describe it is I noticed she was getting sparser than her sisters and that her leaves, seemingly from the middle were turning yellow - oddly not really dying, but going very, very yellow. New growth is green, but seems small which could indicate something specific or just be a reflection of. There is also a whole side to the plant that is lush and dark green and appears unaffected.

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Close up of a leaf typical of the ones making me worry about the health of 'grapefruit'

This will surely effect yield but I wonder what it could possibly be - she's certainly getting enough nutrients, the highest PPM is 1500 and I'm using and if it were a fungus or bacterial problem, I'd imagine I would see something from the others - so I went with what I thought was my best option - I flushed the entire dutch bucket system (Group 1) for 24 hours using FloraKleen at the higher end of the recommended concentration of 2 tsp FloraKleen per gallon of plain water. I was nervous about taking away nutrients for too long while flowering, but figured 36 hours was an acceptable period especially as 24 of those hours were during the night cycle. I even let her bucket "flood" a little so as to clear as much of the hydroton as possible.

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A troubling center shot of C99 'grapefruit' where the problem seems to emanate from. I took it under a different light to get a "truer" less yellow picture.

I'm torn between several deficiencies, lockout & overferting! Another thing to note - I've also noticed similar but far less extensive chlorosis on some of the fan leaves of grapefruit's sister plant, pineapple. C99 'grapefruit' could be slowly dying - I'm not too concerned, except as it effects the other healthy plants in the system as I have rooted cuttings of her - the plants from seed were more of a bonus harvest & a practice run before commencing the perpetual grow, so no whining here. But I'm very curious as to what is up with this plant. I'm going with Mg lockout for now - but I diagnose nothing with confidence - I've seen things that could indicate possible iron deficiency, over-nuting, nutrient lockout, potassium deficiency, nitrogen deficiency... so who knows and I am sure part of this is over analyzing the situation. I hesitate to say it is PH issues, as I am very on top of the PH and the fluctuation only goes up a point on average. I also don't think that over-concentration of nutrients are causing nutrient burn as I've been topping off the reservoirs frequently which keeps the PPMs low.

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A picture of some of the healthy parts of the troublesome plant.

Hopefully the flush will have removed whatever was causing the trouble. As I've mentioned, I've started to supplement the plants with 5ml/gal of Cal-Mag+ and everyone seems to be loving it except our C99 'grapefruit' who is getting yellow. Perhaps I did not add it fast enough? Curiouser & curiouser... If anyone has any ideas - I'd love to hear them. Also, I should mention that the dutch buckets with the largest plants (grapefruit & pineapple) have occasionally flooded - I didn't know that this was a complication of dutch buckets when I went for the system - I resolved the issue each time, but maybe the flooding has something to do with it.

I took a bunch of pictures from different angles & under different lighting. One thing that occurred to me is it may have looked worse than it is b/c the yellow light of the Super HPS may have looked like more yellow leaves than there actually were.

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The plant as it appeared under a brighter flash

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The plant as it appeared under the HPS lighting.

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This is a picture of C99 'pineapple', C99 'grapefruit's sister - she has some leaves exhibiting chlorosis but appears to not be suffering to the extend that 'grapefruit' is. Hopefully this is normal and not a sign of degeneration to come.

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Additional leaves off of 'grapefruit' in various states of chlorosis.

Group 2 & Mother Clones in Rockwool

Group 2 pictures:

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Group 2's Root system:

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My Apollo 11 X C99 has really taken off and surprised me, she burst her neoprene collar (!) and is growing... like a weed. Long arms & lots of blooms, she's a lovely girl. I thought because of some bad luck early on - I'd end up with a lesser mother, but it looks as if with this strain, I've struck the jackpot. As you can see from the pictures, the Cal-Mag+ has turned these guys a deep green. Speaking of mothers - they are doing very well and ready for transplant, check out the new growth.

Mother Clones in Rockwool:

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These guys are basically ready to plant into their hydroton buckets and will be very soon. The transition from the aerocloner to the rockwool wasn't as traumatic as I thought it would be & they have a nice survival rate - they're already throwing out new growth.

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Group 3

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The next big event was moving the plants of Group 3 in the veg room into flower units - I pulled quite a few males and put my strongest plants & desired mothers into flower units to give them more space. My 'duds' are in the last remaining veg unit - and they are duds, some of them cannot even stand up on their own. Cuttings for mothers were taken of the Blue Apollo, Sugar Berry & Apollo 11 strains. The cloned strains already transplanted to rockwool are ready and rooted. They will make the transition to the dutch bucket mother system soon as I make room by putting the plants in the veg unit into a flower unit & move it to the flower room - this will likely happen this coming Sunday. We'll see what the duds can produce in terms of bud.

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Group 3's 'duds', these plants were not good enough to preserve as clones for mothers, but moved to a flower unit & placed in the flower room, they may produce some nice extra harvest.

I think I've eradicated the last of the males. Interesting note, the Blueberrys turned out to be the most difficult to sex, producing pre-flowers & even early regular flowers that are quite spherical, usually an indicator of male sex. Making it more difficult is the females only throw out a tiny white hair which is very hard to spot. And they all showed indicators of sex far later than all the other strains - in vegetative growth and even under the 12/12 lighting. I'd incorrectly identified Blueberry 'foxtrot' as a female, but when I checked the cutting I put in the sex cloner - I found out that foxtrot was in fact a male! I don't know if I hermied him/her or just read a stipule as the white hair of a pistil, as they were so tiny on the others - but the clone cutting had balls - two of them in each crevice, so I pulled it from the system.

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This is flower unit 1, it holds several mothers & second bests - I've taken clones of more than one of the strains Blue Apollo, Apollo 11, and Sugar Berry as there was no one plant that greatly out-shined all others as was the case with Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms. With Sugar Berry there were two top runners, so close in quality I had to take cuttings from both & determine who will be the mother based on the final results of flowering out the seeded plants.

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Flower Unit 2 - this holds the mothers of Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms, as their clones have rooted (plus I have additional cuttings in the aerocloner just in case) I may flower them out along with the runners up in the unit instead of transferring them into flower unit 1 with the rest of the mothers, we shall see.

Nice.

The one comment I noticed when scanning your thread was that you run your nutes to 1500ppm. I also grow aero, though I keep my mothers in soilless mix. I've been experimenting with topping out nutrients 800ppm at the high point during flower and it's working great for me. My systems are VERY similar to yours.. constructed with 5" vinyl fence posts, and 3" General Hydroponic net pots (aeroflow parts), but I used in adjustable drains where I can maintain a little bit of water in the channels. For veg, I have one 2x6 system, that feeds three 2x3 systems (6 plants) used for flower, where I try to harvest one every three weeks. I typically get about 12 oz dried bud from one 6 plant system and enough trim/trash for about 15g killer hash.

For the one plant in your photos that was loosing leaves.. From the top, it kind of looked like you may have developed a root rot problem. Did your roots start turning brown and smelling bad? I know I have real issues when the reservoirs start getting above 68 degrees F. I lost a system over the summer due to root rot, looked just like that. Suffered through August using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to combat it, though once it cooled off, all of that kind of issue went away. I'm going to bite the bullet for next year and get 4 chillers, 1 for each of my systems.

Have you harvested from your aero systems yet?

Peace,

Farmer Rich

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Farmer Rich

The one comment I noticed when scanning your thread was that you run your nutes to 1500ppm. I also grow aero, though I keep my mothers in soilless mix. I've been experimenting with topping out nutrients 800ppm at the high point during flower and it's working great for me. My systems are VERY similar to yours.. constructed with 5" vinyl fence posts, and 3" General Hydroponic net pots (aeroflow parts), but I used in adjustable drains where I can maintain a little bit of water in the channels. For veg, I have one 2x6 system, that feeds three 2x3 systems (6 plants) used for flower, where I try to harvest one every three weeks. I typically get about 12 oz dried bud from one 6 plant system and enough trim/trash for about 15g killer hash.

....

Have you harvested from your aero systems yet?

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Whew, that's a mighty fine haul! You've got me reaming now of hat I might pull down of this haul. :dance: Thanks for coming by - it's good to have someone using a similar system to yours to speak with. You know I heard another poster on this board (an old hand w/a lot of respect) state that a plant can't use more than 800 PPM nutrients... and now your post, I will surely look into it. Right now I'm going strictly by the book & I thought I'd learn from this grow and adjust & your sharing your experience helps. Just thought I'd add, I'm running the PPMs initially at around 1300, dropping as I top it off - (I always wondered how that effects the plants, if it's bad to dilute it too much - my current thinking is the recommended PPM the starting number for that week or that reservoir & as the plant uses nutrients it should drop, but if you know more, please tell me)

And I've yet to harvest anything from anything - this is my very first grow.:D

Quote:

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For the one plant in your photos that was loosing leaves.. From the top, it kind of looked like you may have developed a root rot problem. Did your roots start turning brown and smelling bad? I know I have real issues when the reservoirs start getting above 68 degrees F. I lost a system over the summer due to root rot, looked just like that. Suffered through August using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to combat it, though once it cooled off, all of that kind of issue went away. I'm going to bite the bullet for next year and get 4 chillers, 1 for each of my systems.

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You'll see it in my next update if you read it, but I incorporated this comment o yours into my thinking. It's happening in the dutch bucket, not the aero system. The stink is what gives away the root rot? As of now, I think I eliminated whatever the problem was. The badly damaged leaves were lost, but the new growth is developing and the buds are just as big as her sister plants'... <crosses herself, eyes to the heavens> I hope I've done enough. What did the roots look like when they rotted? Unfortunately I'm using several products that make the roots brown, so coloring isn't necessarily a key for me. I worry b/c I've moved the plants around causing damage and leaving some dead matter around. But the roots smell clean.

It's (as of today) about the start of the fifth week of flower and in Unit 2 (the aerosystem) I've noticed some fan leaves beginning to yellow! If that OK or normal given my high nutrient levels & such? I'm afraid that whatever error I was making or disease is now coming to fruition in the second unit as it did in the first with grapefruit :( So I'm fretting. The amount of leaves yellowing are small, but after what happened to grapefruit I'm scared. Got my hand on my FloraShield (it's sort of like H2O2, it'll kill bacteria/fungus/root troubles & "clean" your roots - but I wonder if it would have some undesirable effect - It would kill any beneficial bacteria/fungi, but if you got root rot or whatever you might as well sterilize & start again (re-inoculate after the cleansing) I don't know why I'm not doing it... maybe this is the thing I'll look back on and regret. I'm so freaked about my roots, even the little hairy roots I thought was fungus for a brief, panic-y second when it was actually a sign of recovery (unless I was totally wrong - but the plants look healthy and the roots do not smell..) See? I'm a totally crazy over-protective parent, any advice, any at all would be so appreciated - I don't want to act too late. :tin foil hat:

As for the chillers, I say go for it, you won't be sorry - one bit of advice I'd give is if you want to not have to use AC, go for the larger chiller. I'm thinking of buying a second one, then I'll really be rolling. The thing with a chiller is, if you get just below the HP needed - you're shooting yourself in the foot as it can only drop the temperature of the res to a level that's lower, but still too high for you & it's a great expense - all the while running at full tilt expelling hot air all around, where as a more powerful unit would run less, emit less heat and handle the temperature you need - and it's versatile, you can use it to cool your rooms if you find you wish to do that. You can ask me about them should you decide on making the jump - I'm no expert, but I've done my shopping around.

11/8/09 Update - End of the third week of flowering & beginning of the fourth. This is the first day of flower for unit 3.

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The flowering room after the new flower unit was added

In the flowering room: Buds have really started to turn up at this point. Major changes are I've moved the "duds" of group 3 plus the favorite Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry plant grown from seed into a flowering unit & placed into the flower room. All reservoirs were changed, Groups 1 & 2 were given the Aggressive Bloom General Hydroponics formula with Hygrozyme & Cal-Mag+ added.

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Groups 1 & 2 canopy

The newly transplanted Group 3 flower unit was given the Transitional formula plus the Hygrozyme and the Cal-Mag+, the Transitional formula will be changed out in a week and replaced with Aggressive Bloom formula. Bioballs were added to the reservoir and it as given a 1/4 strength root drench of SubCulture M. I'm changing the reservoirs every 2 weeks, I hope that's enough, I wouldn't want to be wasteful changing it every week.

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New Flower Unit

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The new flowering unit contains Blue Apollos, Sugar Berrys, Sugar blossoms, Blueberrys & Apollo 11s - including the desired Blueberry & sugar Blossom mother plants, but since their cuttings took well and there are back up cuttings, I thought it best to flower them out.

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Group 1 before buckets were rearranged & the second half removed

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Groups 1 & 2 after both units moved to the wall

Some people have noticed how bushy Group 1 is - they were so big that I took quite a bit off the top - not the usual 1 - 2 node down cut, but further to control height. I anticipate a longer manicure time, but since it'll be my first, it shouldn't bother me too much as it's all so new. But I think they are giving me a very bush like, multiple "main" bud sites plant. Group 2 was topped also, but fimmed, not chopped several nodes down like Group 1 was and you can see all the long branches & multiple cola formations - part of that its down to genes as I hear C99 X A11 is long & branchy by nature. But you can see the difference in effect when you hack well down.

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Group 2 before tie down

I've done quite a bit of tying of the plants in Groups 1 & 2 and continue to do so. Just to note - PPMs for flower room reservoirs generally start at 1300-1400 gross total (my tap water is about 90 PPM on it's own) and it decreases as time goes by and it gets topped off. Plants seem happy. The PPM of the Veg units are usually gross 1100. The PPMs in the Transitional formula units are 1250 gross. As always, remember to subtract about 100 PPM to get the net - just thought I'd throw that out there.

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Group 2 after tie downs

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C99 'pineapple' bud close-up in purple

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Group 2 "clover field"

Since the buds have started to show, I've been overcome with taking pictures of them - they look like clover. Unit 2 especially looks like a clover field. I haven't been able to get a good enough picture to really show you this clover field effect, but I'm trying - it's down to the lighting & the camera at this point. I'm a sucker for flowers. Hopefully these pictures will give the impression.

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C99 'pineapple' close-up

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Group 2 Canopy

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C99 'grapefruit' in a sorry state

In the dutch bucket system, as the Hydroton wasn't washed (my first and rather big newb mistake) the PH rises a bit faster (and a lot faster than the thoroughly washed & PH conditioned Hydroton of the mother system) so I've had to keep on top of that. But, in the aeroponic flowering systems, the PH actually tends to go down, but occasionally will rise. Just an observation, and this goes for the units in the flower room and in the vegetation room.

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Groups 1 & 3, you can really see the C99 'grapefruit'

Just a thought: my woes with C99 'grapefruit' may be due in part to the debris in the system from the unwashed Hydroton. The old damaged growth on the plant is likely not going to recover - but the new growth remains green & it is still putting out new. Perhaps this is a phenotype that cannot take the PPM level her sisters can, we shall find out. My suspicion, and it's just my suspicion, is that b/c the Hydroton was unwashed it left this very clay-y residue which might have coated the roots and left them oxygen starved which in turn lead to dead roots, root rot = no nutrient uptake. But I think that's passed... the buds and new green growth are there although the plant itself is a sorry sight - I was tempted just to take her out of the system, but as it appears to have abated, I'm likely going to see this through to completion. Big thanks to poster Farmer Rich for sharing his experiences & pointing me in that direction, as I read more, it seemed the likeliest. I also think the FloraKleen may have whisked enough Hydroton debris away to enable the roots to somewhat re-establish themselves plus the Hygrozyme must have eaten away at enough dead matter to at lest keep my other plants in the system from falling vulnerable to the ever present pythium et al. I don't like to speak in so much conjecture, but it's all I got right now. It's interesting to note that after peeling away some Hydroton from poor 'grapefruit' I've noticed a whole lot of white fuzzy where before there was none - so I'm giving the girl a chance - I think she has come back from whatever it is that was ailing her, but the 'haul' from her harvest will be meager.

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Group 1, 'grapefruit' is on the left

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Groups 1 & 2 before the new flowering unit was added - 'grapefruit' is very visible at the end