From Joining the Military Thread: A Wide Discussion on American Military

like i said before...if you havent been there , then you really don't know.

What's so great about western society anyways that we need to share it with second and third world countries? It's not like we have a real democracy anyways, it's just called that. We have our own shitstorm of problems too. Granted we don't get mustard gassed by Mexico but that's an extreme case.

go to iraq, and you will know what is so great about western society. trust me, it is indeed great.

id say no its not worth it unless u really want a challenge i am in the army and am in the infantry u have to do alot dumb stuff and u think some of the stuff is retarded but u gota learn to adapt am cool am here am chillin and yes i do smoke army is almost like normal college life to me once u get used to it:hippy:

im pretty good at detecting bullshit, infact my 'bullshit detection meter' is in the red right now.


:D

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

go to iraq, and you will know what is so great about western society. trust me, it is indeed great.

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Ok... could you tell us how it is there, and what led you to conclude that the west is actually better?
Also... does the people who lives there think the same way you do think about the west being better than there?

This is simple, if YOU want to serve then join, but be prepared you might not even be allowed to join after meps. This is a personal decision you need to make on your own. I have wanted to serve almost all my life but couldn't due to waiver bullshit. Actually its understandable I have a personality disorder and its well documented, so I'm up shit creek.

but Good Luck and if you do serve Thank You.

abd to all the other Armed Services members Thank You and Be Safe:thumbsup:

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The whole "you can't know unless you've done it" argument doesn't really sit with me. It sounds to me like nothing more than a way to silence opposition...if one is informed to a great enough degree, they are entitled to a legitimate opinion that deserves more of a rebuttal than "if you don't know, don't say anything." I say the armed forces are soul-crushing because I cannot conceive how individuality can be maintained with a shaved head and a uniform, killing people their county's tycoons find troublesome.

If you really take anything the army does seriously and see it as anything more than a futile and vainglorious absurdity (involving proud kids who played with too many G.I. Joes), you need a serious lesson in detecting horseshit.

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so you think you know what its like to serve? what its like to go to war? what its like to loose a freind in combat? what its like to be off some place in the world getting shot at while a bunch of little pansy assed mamas boys sit back home whining about how futile and vaingloriously absurd our military is? the truth is you dont and never will till youve been there. ever seen to people together who were both in the armed forces could have servered at 2 differant times or in 2 differant wars but they have a common bond, a mutual respect for the other. its a bond of brothers.

and no you cannot be a individual in the military. but it is definatly not soul crushing. what you do you like to think that your doing for the good of you country and your people. i may not agree with the politics of my goverment but i still love my country and the people of my country enough to serve my time in the military, and if need be i will die defending them. thats called patriotism and its quite soul inspiring. one thing the military definatly does for you is it teaches you to grow up.

this all goes back to one other thing that i mentioned a long time ago. this attitude of what has my country done for me. have we forgotten the immortal words of john " ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"?

my apologys if this is takin as a flame. but i get quit pissed of when people put down our troops. these kids are puttin everything they have on the line sacrificing the best years of their life. just to get to come home and be shit on not by their own people but by their gov't. there should never for any reason be a homeless vet in this country. but that a differant subject. the military is a great institution our soldiers, sailors, marines, and flyboys are some of the best people around. its our corupt goverment in control of where they do their jobs at is what is at fault. there are no bad dogs just bad owners.

there is none who prays for peace more than the soldier.

oh and i never owned a g.i. joe

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Originally Posted by headshake

warmongering is something politicians do! the military are merely the ones that do the bidding. we don't decide what wars are started, that takes an act of congress. public opinion decides "right from wrong".

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When was the last war declared by Congress? Not Iraq. Not Afghanistan. Not Vietnam, and not Korea. What was that you were saying again?

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we are the best military in the world because we train to be. that's what the military is, training. training so when you go to war you do your job and you do it well so you don't go home in a black plastic bag. so just because we do our job with efficiency as trained to do, doesn't make us bad guys.

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If we are the best military why have we lost our last 3 "wars", and getting ready to lose a fourth?

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not everything the military does is right, or wrong. war is some nasty sh!t. bad things happen. sometimes in war there are preemptive attacks. that's the way it's been for thousands of years. some will agree, some won't and some will change their minds.

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I'm afraid you are incorrect. Everything anyone does is either "right", or "wrong". It's just a matter of perspective as to which.

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whether they had weapons of mass destruction in iraq or not, it was the iraqi people that toppled the statues of saddam. we defend the freedoms of others as well. do we do it for our own best interests? almost always i'm sure. that's another debate too.

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Wrong again. That little show was a setup. Was that an Iraqi tank involved?

JG

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Originally Posted by JohnGault

When was the last war declared by Congress? Not Iraq. Not Afghanistan. Not Vietnam, and not Korea. What was that you were saying again?

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i can't help it that the politicians decide to manipulate the constitution to fit their will. the military simply does as it's told. you question your directives after the fact. if you question during, you could die.

also iraq and afghanistan are military engagements (not formal war, correct) both (or all three if you count iraq twice) all approved by congress. who do you think votes on bills that decide how much is spent?

also, vietnam was a military engagement approved by congress. the korean war was authorized by the United Nations Security Council.

here are are list of the bills and when they were signed-

first gulf war (which is also technically a military engagement, not a war):

H.R.J. Res. 77
January 12, 1991

afghanistan:
S.J. Res. 23
September 14, 2001

iraq (the second time)
H.J. Res. 114,
October 16, 2002

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Originally Posted by JohnGault

If we are the best military why have we lost our last 3 "wars", and getting ready to lose a fourth?

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please elaborate as to which wars we've lost? are you speaking german, vietnamese, korean or any other language? didn't think so. if our military isn't the best in the world, then who's is? how many other countries have you been to? how many military exercises have you been involved in? how many people do you know who've died in war (or a military engagement)?

[quote=JohnGault]I'm afraid you are incorrect. Everything anyone does is either "right", or "wrong". It's just a matter of perspective as to which.]/QUOTE]

how are you going to tell me i'm wrong and then tell me it's a matter of perspective. that means the subject is subjective, or a matter of personal opinion or belief. therefore, one can't be right or wrong.

a law is merely a matter of opinion that the (sometimes) the majority agrees with. does that make it right?! FUCK NO! i love the contradiction that you bring to your arguments.

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Originally Posted by JohnGault

Wrong again. That little show was a setup. Was that an Iraqi tank involved?

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i can't even begin to understand what you mean here. if you have a certain video that you are talking about then please share. but the military was given orders to NOT do those things. they could give iraqis ropes and stuff, but could not be involved directly. i'm not saying that it possibly didn't happen, but that doesn't mean that the group that acted had consent from or spoke for the united states government or it's people.......i mean, what about the soldiers killing people for no reason. do those people speak for you? didn't think so.

and it's because of our military that you have the ability to sit behind a keyboard and post your OPINION!

so next time you want to tell someone that they are wrong perhaps your should check your facts!

also, the president can make ware for 180 days without congressional approval.


by the way, welcome to the boards.


-shake