Michael Phelps, Hypocrisy, & American Drug Policy

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A little aggressive, man...there was really no need for that. And I'm familiar with the history of civil disobedience, just in case you felt the patronizing tone was necessary also.

I was merely lamenting peoples' readiness to throw away any ideals just so they'll still be mainstream society's favourite boy. You have a more pragmatic perspective, fine...notice, though, that there won't be any "fuck you"s directed by me, a difference to mark well.

The Schindler analogy was extreme, I'm aware, but I used it to illustrate my point that the drug laws cause nothing but suffering and ruined lives, albeit, of course, on a much smaller scale (in degree of suffering, not so much in numbers). Try telling someone whose life has been ruined by a criminal record for something that is not a crime, that the law is the law and he should accept his fate. I know what you're going to say, that they're whining idiots for getting caught and not taking it in stride, but the same can be said for blacks caught making love to white women in the nineteenth century. But the law was the law, right?

Evidentaly I felt it necessary. Effevtive reform isn't all about social unrest or civil disobedience...it's about knowing your limitations, your oppomnents limitations, and finding a common ground. Not sitting around a campfire wishing laws were different, or tossing a couple of police cars while exiting the Super Bowl.

It sounded to me like youe were simply whining about his being a bitch for doing the right thing, for him. If you feel more should be done, fine. you keep the social unrest going, I'll look to see if anything has changed, other than your booking number, lol.

Cannabis reform won't get anywhere without the support of the Surgeon General, most of congress, and the bulk of the medical professionals. Voting to legalize a drug, is not something the public is allowed to decide on, nor will it likely ever be put to a public vote. If legalization or at the very least decrimilnalization happens, it will likely be a congressional bill immediatelly taxing the industry, and setting guidelines for age, driving and workplace restrictions...

Seems to me this social unrest shit is just for the amusement of those that wish to mix shit up, regardless of the cause. Cannabis laws, corporate greed in a capitalist economy, soccer matches, the Duke "rape case"...any reason to show 'civil disobedience' and point fingers at "the bad guys", regardless of the detriment it places on those making strides to advance legalization thru the system.

With regards to the Schindler comment, some jews are a tad touchy, and your comparison was not only rude, but flippantly insulting. Do you often use jews as the butt of your message to others that cannabis is is an effective medical tool?

So at the very least, you're rude and insensitive, and I'm a prick...now there's a revelation...:jointsmile:

I have absolutely nothing against Jews (though my hatred of Israel is probably becoming well-known around here)--the comparison could have been made concerning any oppression, such as that of the Christians under early Rome. It was just a famous and recent example, that was all. I don't have a politically correct bone in my body, so I suppose I am rude and insensitive, to a degree.

I've been thinking, and you have a point about how it was unfair of me to condemn his abjectness so strongly--it would be a hard position to be in. I think I'm just frustrated about our social climate in which it's considered an offence, and not so much with him, upon review. He's just a guy who unfortunately lives in a society that condemns what he did. He pretty much did what anyone understandably trying to save their ass would do.

I do, however, disagree about the accusation that civil unrest is created just to stir up trouble. It's a response to injustice, and the long and ardous red tape of the "democratic" process doesn't get very far very fast.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

No...it's just the sheriff busting those stupid enough to be caught breaking the law. The fact remains...cannabis use and distribution is against federal law, and some state laws.

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Hypocrites and their Apologists... tsk tsk

Bullshit, its a lie not a law except by groupies and punks.

I post at several forums and its getting boring.
So instead of rewriting the SOS to different idiots...
Baby killers for Kellogg. Sucking down those pesticides boy, eat your fucking heart out. Bring some facts, your wimpering doesn't cut it. The reality you spout is do to punks like you running from truth and justice unless you can make a buck on it. Worthless.

Rusty Trichome stop spreading gossip. You would have told Michael not to sit in the front seat of the bus. You would continue to enter through back doors. As a woman you would stay happily obedient without voting. As an American you would have sold out the forefathers. You would have sided with the racist and the industrialists.

The only reason we even know about this is because of lies. Lies you feel comfortable with, enough to blame Michael. If cannabis was truthfully examined it would prove safer than what is legal and what no one would be even discussing. Ooooo Michael had a sip of liquor!

Nixon lied to schedule Ganja #1.
Drug WarRant :: View topic - While Nixon Campaigned, FBI Watched John Lennon

So stop demonizing natures plants, used for 10,000 years safely by cultures outside of your DEA handbook. Their is no shame in smoking pot. There is immense shame in lies that cage sick people and stigmatize young athletes.

Sorry Michael, but your swimming skills lack a lot for a role model when our economy is so easily burgled by professional crooks. The honest ethical people need to step up and speak out as role models. Not the party groupies and people pleasers. When lies are so profitable and the cost is only the suffering of poor Americans, whats the problem they say? Kids need more than empty words or cardboard cereal.

The same Rusty Trichome s jerk their Iraqi crude oil plastic flags made by kids in sweatshops, at kids going off to die in the sand for political lies forwarding fascist ambitions. These same low life self appointed moralists blaring the terrorists buzz word after every sentence. Fear mongers protecting the interests of Americans they claim. These same hypocrites are terrorizing millions of Americans voting for safe access to Ganja. Not knowing from one day to the next if some zealot politicians will try to stop them or if cops will obey the laws when confiscations are so easy.

The same prohibitionist abortionists spraying poison on the farmlands, same liars clear cutting forests when Hemp has greater tensile strength and cellulose. Cotton's 90 million pounds of poison, when Hemp grows wild and another lie keeps it lumped into a mix with crack and pcp. Comprising 98% of the so called eradications saving the kids from burlap and canvas. But Rusty Trichomes don't DARE question. They blame and shame as the obstructionists trying to stifle more for the Banksters and shame the workers for wanting a living wage.

Kids need role models who teach truth and that won't cut it on Wall Street or in D.C. How many more research studies on cannabis have been shelved Brain tumors or cancer or the known benefits of using RxGanja. Hidden and information censored from the TVillusions. Thanks to shills like Rusty Trichome and the other lemmings marching off to the orders of the talking head idiots.

Stop Persecuting Americans Rusty Trichome!

The Elkhorn Manifesto Why Hemp is Illegal

Why is Marijuana Illegal?

The Drug Czar is required by law to lie

CrazyCalvinaFay

High on Hemp

Granny Storm Crow's MMJ List

Wallstreet's Spontaneous Abortionists

Cops Against the Drug War

The 'Virtues' of Ganja

Groups Endorsing RxGanja

Politics of Pot

Drug War Distortions

Drugwar Lies Linked to Schizophrenia

How Pot Became Demonized

"In a republic like ours, people often think that the proper response to an unjust law is to try to use the political process to change the law, but to obey and respect the law until it is changed. But if the law is itself clearly unjust, and the lawmaking process is not designed to quickly obliterate such unjust laws, then the law deserves no respect â?? break the law."
- Henry David Thoreau

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and MMJ Prohibition

"One may well ask: How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others? The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

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"There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society with a large segment of people in that society who feel that they have nothing to lose. People who have a stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it."
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

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"By far the most numerous and most flagrant violations of personal liberty and individual rights are performed by governments ... The major crimes throughout history, the ones executed on the largest scale, have been committed not by individuals or bands of individuals but by governments, as a deliberate policy of those governments ...that is, by the official representatives of governments, acting in their official capacity."
--John Hospers

Nazism or Drug Cops

SCAPEGOATING - Blaming social problems on a cultural, racial, or behaviorial group. PREJUDICE - Selling the public on the idea that all members of the targeted group are 'bad' people. LIES - 'Facts', which cannot be verified, and pseudo scientific studies are used as propaganda against the targeted group. History is rewritten. NO PUBLIC DEBATE - "These people have no right to have their viewpoiunt aired." and " Anyone who disagrees or questions us must be one of them!" DEHUMANIZATION - Characterizing all members of a targeted group as subhuman and typically capable of monstrous deeds and/or crimes. PROTECT OUR CHILDREN - "They corrupt, seduce and or destroy our children." CIVIL LIBERTIES SACRIFICED - "We must give up some of our freedoms, liberties, and rights in order to combat this menace to society." LEGAL DESCRIMINATION - Laws criminalize members of targeted group and they may be denied jobs, the right to own property and/or be restricted as to where they may live or go. INFORMERS - Citizens are urged to 'turn in' friends, neighbors, co- workers and family members. SECRET POLICE - Non-uniformed police squads set up to wage war on targeted groups utilizing deception, infiltration, espionage and entrapment.
CONFISCATION OF PROPERTY - Property and assets are seized from people who are members of targeted group. Property may be divided between the informer and the state. REMOVAL FROM SOCIETY - Prisons, rehabilitation camps,'hospitals', executions and genocide...
("Kill Them All" "Zero Tolerance")

DdC, I greatly commend your idealism and social awareness. If everyone thought like you, tyranny would be impossible. The last thing we need to do is obey whatever bullshit the legislaters dream up.

I would not compare Mike getting caught smoking pot with any kind of civil disobedience...He's a young man with the world by the balls who made a mistake...Thank goodness they only caught him smokin' pot instead of snorting coke or his career could've been damaged permanently...He made a dumb mistake which I compare to a college student getting caught tokin' on campass when the rules clearly state not to do this...Grounds for expulsion???In many cases yes...Mike still has his career...Hope he's learned a lesson...

I'm a med user who has had 5 knee surgeries and has lots of other aches and pains...I live in a cannabis prohibition state...No matter how bad I'm hurting no doctor will give me a card that allows me to grow or go to a place where it's dispensed...Is this fair??,fuck no,but the law is what it is for now...Every grow I do I take the risk of getting locked up...If I did get locked up for growing would I consider it a bold political statement of civil disobedience???No,I'd just be another person who either got careless in this game or was just the victim of bad luck...I believe Mike was careless and unlucky...

On to more serious biz...I would lay off the cereals for the most part...They're loaded with chemicals...Many are encrusted with refined sugar...Not so hot for a person looking to loose weight either as they're loaded with carbs...I prefer egg whites and fresh fruit in the morning...;)

All this bullshit about the need for civil disobedience and the civil unrest is caca. I'm here, because my state has deemed it possible for me to grow and smoke my own meds. Where's the need for civil disobedience? I play the game, I play it well, and I don't need someone coming into my office (where my computer is) telling me I need more rage.
Are you saying you are just a recreational user, invading our medical cannabis site to spread anarchist propoganda in order that your anger will be heard, understood and acted-upon?

I'm soooo amused by your hipocracy, when we are having this discussion on an established medical cannabis site, and openly discuss the growing and use of our meds. Tell me again why I, as a conservative, need to be outraged. If you are bummed you have to sneak a joint into a concert, or talk your way out of a possesion charge...then I have no sympathy. I've been smoking the herb for approaching 35 years, and have played the game well enough, to this point...that playing this game is second-nature. And frankly, I'm ok with that. When was the last time you refused to 'light-up'. because cannabis is illegal? Yeah...the law is sooo intrusive.

I had been a supporter of NORML for DECADES, and their bumbling attempts to raise awareness has worked, for the most part, to lower expectations, and to help get cannabis legal enough within the states, for medical use. However, they've dropped the ball on the national level. Doesn't really matter to me tho. I'm not here to party with my friends. I'm here to openly discuss medical-grade marijuana, and the gardens it's grown in.

And quite honestly, I'm a conservative that isn't swayed by the question authority mindset. It's for appologists and those that wish to shirk personal responsibility in a blame the system game of "flip the cop car".

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Originally Posted by DdC222

Bullshit, its a lie not a law except by groupies and punks.
Rusty Trichome stop spreading gossip. You would have told Michael not to sit in the front seat of the bus. You would continue to enter through back doors. As a woman you would stay happily obedient without voting. As an American you would have sold out the forefathers. You would have sided with the racist and the industrialists.

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See...right off the bat, you get your facts wrong. Go smoke a joint in the police station...see if it's a lie. Regardless of the reasoning behind the law...it's the law.
If you'd like to make this a personal assault, I'm game. What gossip are you refering to, oh enlightened sophmore? Since you don't know me and have never met me, I think it's funny that although you have me figured-out, you sit here all day cutting and pasting other peoples thoughts. Doubtful you have an original thought, as a growing number of children talk and act exactly like you. Do read the drivel you so consistently post, let alone understand the social conbsequences of the anarchists philosophy you so often link us to? Tisn't my downfall I'm worried about. But perhaps you'll see this when and if you ever grow up.

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Originally Posted by DdC222

The same Rusty Trichome s jerk their Iraqi crude oil plastic flags made by kids in sweatshops, at kids going off to die in the sand for political lies forwarding fascist ambitions. These same low life self appointed moralists blaring the terrorists buzz word after every sentence. Fear mongers protecting the interests of Americans they claim. These same hypocrites are terrorizing millions of Americans voting for safe access to Ganja. Not knowing from one day to the next if some zealot politicians will try to stop them or if cops will obey the laws when confiscations are so easy.

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Where do you come up with this bullshit? Quite a few of us here have safe access to cannabis. Bummer if you don't.
And without morals, you're just another pile of dog shit, on the sidewalk of life.

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Originally Posted by DdC222

The same prohibitionist abortionists spraying poison on the farmlands, same liars clear cutting forests when Hemp has greater tensile strength and cellulose. Cotton's 90 million pounds of poison, when Hemp grows wild and another lie keeps it lumped into a mix with crack and pcp.

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WTF is a "prohibitionist abortionists "? This is the second post where you include subjects banned by this site, and I for one am all for stiffer drug laws sans the cannabis. How's that for oppressive?

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Originally Posted by DdC222

Comprising 98% of the so called eradications saving the kids from burlap and canvas. But Rusty Trichomes don't DARE question. They blame and shame as the obstructionists trying to stifle more for the Banksters and shame the workers for wanting a living wage.

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No, I blame simple-minded punks like you thinking they have it all figured-out...when they don't even know the game. Every step forward we make with decriminalization, there's folks like you taking us three steps back. You think you are the first generation to combat the system? I was around during the VietNam protests. I was there willing to be arrested for the marijuana demonstrations, way before decriminalization was a buzz-word. I was a liberal democrat, until I grew-up.

You appear neither educated enough, nor committed enough to make a difference. Unless posting links from one website to another, or throwing out irrelevant links, and tangental points in history, is considered to be 'making a difference'. I know...it's so much easier to parrot others, and pass the thoughts off as your own. This way you really have no need to think for yourself, just like they tought you in school. Such a confusingly monotonous and difficult process, that you seem unfamiliar with.

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Originally Posted by DdC222

Kids need role models who teach truth

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Which is why I'm here. Not because you are such a great conversationalist...but because I care enough to speak from decades of experience, without being encumbered with misguided anger.

Tell me...which government, country or state is more to your liking? I gurantee I can present you with bullshit they've done in the past, errors they've made, citizens that gamed the system, peoples they've oppressed. No country has ever been perfect, yet you chose to detract from the fact, that the world still looks to the USA for more important issues than getting cannabis legalized.

Gossip boy, all ya got is gossip. Punks

Here is you racism boy. Now bring some more gossip.
Your not even a good liar boy. Practice.
Here is your law narkoslut. And I don't read morons gossip,
So if you got something to say, bring a link. Your word is shit.

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
- Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"A gang of boys tear the clothes from two school girls and rape [them].... A sixteen-year-old kills his entire family of five in Florida, a man in Minnesota puts a bullet through the head of a stranger... in Colorado husband tries to shoot his wife... and then kills himself. Every one of these crimes had been proceeded [sic] by the smoking of one or more marijuana 'reefers.'"
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"How many murders, suicides, robberies, criminal assaults, holdups, burglaries and deeds of maniacal insanity it causes each year, especially among the young, can only be conjectured... No one knows, when he places a marijuana cigarette to his lips, whether he will become a joyous reveller in a musical heaven, a mad insensate, a calm philosopher, or a murderer..."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"I wish I could show you what a small marihuana cigarette can do to one of our degenerate Spanish-speaking residents. That's why our problem is so great; the greatest percentage of our population is composed of Spanish-speaking persons, most of who are low mentally, because of social and racial conditions." - quoting Floyd K. Baskette.
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"If the hideous monster Frankenstein came face to face with the monster of marijuana he would drop dead of fright."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing"
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"[Marijuana is taken by] musicians. And I'm not speaking about good musicians, but the jazz type..."
Harry J. Anslinger - America's 1st Drug Czar (FDR - JFK)

"Today's marijuana is also twice as strong as it was in the mid 80's."
John Walters - Current US Drug Czar (Bush II)

"[Marijuana] is highly intoxicating and constitutes an ever recurring problem where there are Mexicans or Spanish-Americans of the lower classes."
New York Times - Newspaper (1933)

"A California man decapitated his best friend while under the spell of the smoke."
Newsweek - Magazine (1937)

"I want a Goddamn strong statement on marijuana, I mean one that just tears the ass out of them. You know, it's a funny thing, every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish."
Richard M. Nixon - Former President

"You have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks. The key is to devise a system that recognizes this all while not appearing to." (about the War on Drugs to Chief of Staff, H. R. Haldeman, according to Halderman's diaries)
Richard M. Nixon - Former President

"[S]oft-headed psychiatrists who work in places like NIMH (National Institute for Mental Health) favor marijuana because they're probably all on the stuff themselves."
Richard M. Nixon - Former President

"Not only are we here to protect the public from vicious criminals in the street but also to protect the public from harmful ideas."
Robert Ingersoll - Former DEA Director (1972)

"I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast."
Ronald Reagan - Former President

"Marihuana produces a wide variety of symptoms in the user, including hilarity, swooning, and sexual excitement ... it often makes the smoker vicious, with a desire to fight and kill."
Scientific American - Magazine (1936)