Why I have a real problem trusting the US goverment.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine

Anyway, I hear 'Loose Change' being defended all too often, and all too often it is by American citizens who should know better... though for some inexplicable reason, many of our citizens want to play the conspiracy card, but don't want to research the actual facts behind the theories they so desperately try to defend.

But believe it or not, many Americans are still genuinely upset about 9/11, and don't like to hear anyone "joke" about it... especially when referring to 'Loose Change' as a basis for their political arguments.

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Well, the joke was directed at all those people who are on the 'my government is so terrible and its doing this, that, and whatever to me'. It was a sarcastic gesture, simply saying its ridiculous what people think the 'government is doing to them these days'.

Wasn't joking about 9/11. I have a heart dude.

And I think so many play that conspiracy card because they can't process everything your country seems to throw through the media at you. It is argued that today's generation has been brought up to be critical..to ask questions...to be skeptical, at least moreso than our parents or grandparents were. They were brought up to do as they were told. Therefore, the rash of belief in these conspiracies is just the youth exercising their right to be critical.

You can debunk 9/11 all you want...I don't buy that shit of the US itself flew those planes and made it happen....BUT.. do I think there was a chance they knew it was coming and didn't stop it? I can't argue that to be impossible.

Sry for the double post, i tried to edit and include this part but it said i was longer than 10mins and therefore have to contact an admin...so double post it is...

In your first post to me, you said something about troops being there cause they took an oath and that I should support them...
I support my Canadian troops in Afghanistan, every step of the way. And i fully understand the courage and valour they display on a regular basis.

I support good hardworking troops all over the world who are defending their respective areas.
I have a problem, however with Blackwater mercenaries who are accountable to NOBODY. And I don't support your governments use of their 'services'. Thats the closest I come to not supporting troops.

Impossible that the govt. knew...? No

Quite possible they knew something was going to happen, but without knowing exactly who, what, where, when and how...what would you have recommended the govt. to do?
Wouldn't it look better catching the plot before it happened? Would send a stronger message that you don't mess with us. But that doesn't fit in with the "Bush wanted this war on terror" crap.
Had Clinton Sr. (Bill) taken care of those that bombed the embassy's in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, perhaps this war on terror could have been delayed or avoided altogether.
Million dollar cruise missles, and he pegged a tent. Thank god that Monica stuff was so prevalent, to cover his incompetence, lol.

Very improbable that govt. knew...? Definatelly.

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Originally Posted by FreshNugz

Wasn't joking about 9/11. I have a heart dude.

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It's cool, sarcasm has a hard time ringing through in these forums sometimes.

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Originally Posted by FreshNugz

It is argued that today's generation has been brought up to be critical..to ask questions...to be skeptical, at least moreso than our parents or grandparents were.

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Can't argue with you there, and it's never a bad thing to be critical of your government. We're responsible for giving power to bureaucrats, so we should never go into our decision with blind reasoning. But sometimes, as is clearly evident from true conspiracy nutjobs, criticism can cross the line and become baseless, heartless, and generalizing.

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Originally Posted by FreshNugz

....BUT.. do I think there was a chance they knew it was coming and didn't stop it? I can't argue that to be impossible.

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Rusty is right, we KNEW that there was unrest in the Middle East... but in the absence of a true threat, we were more or less forced to sit on our hands until something happened. There have been numerous opportunities to stop bin Laden in the past, long before he ever could have orchestrated 9/11. But again, as Rusty pointed out, the accusation of inaction goes back further than Bush. Bush, as much as I don't care for him, still gets credit from me for at least doing his job when these terrible events actually did unfold. I would utterly despise him now had he reacted like a total pacifist.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Million dollar cruise missles, and he pegged a tent.

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:S2: Our tax dollars hard at work...

...but hey, in defense of Slick, he was able to obliterate a small target in an incredibly vast world! That kind of precise calculation has gotta count for something, right?

The Apache attack choppers that were involved in a recent friendly fire incident were from both the US and Brit forces and the Brits had no problem hitting the right target.
The reason for this is because the US needed to extend the range of the Apache in Afghanistan and to lose weight they decided to remove an important piece of radar equipment (Longbow) instead of simply using the same version that the Brits were using. Because of a better overall design (bigger engine bigger, fueltank , etc) the Brits kept the Longbow.

Aviation Encyclopedia: AH-64D Longbow Apache

The whole system of recognising , aiming at, and attacking your target relies heavily on Longbow and removing it makes the Apache less than it should be.
Negligence of military suppliers or cost cutting ?
I would find it hard to blame the front line as they rely on the equipment they are given but I do blame your goverment for not giving them the absolute best.

BTW I am glad I am no longer associated with an army that has been treat so badly under our own version of Napoleon, ,, Mr Tony (I'm gonna screw ya) Blair.

Well, apologies for the misunderstandings.
I'll light a joint to make amends :jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

BTW I am glad I am no longer associated with an army that has been treat so badly under our own version of Napoleon, ,, Mr Tony (I'm gonna screw ya) Blair.

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With your attitudes about government and army, sounds to me like you had exired the army just in time.
In my unit, you would have been another of those friendly fire incidents.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

With your attitudes about government and army, sounds to me like you had exired the army just in time.
In my unit, you would have been another of those friendly fire incidents.

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I was prepared to do what every soldier did , sign for Queen and country not to serve the interests of corporate giants and bent politicians.
Your last statement only adds weight to my argument that there are a lot of trigger happy Americans.

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With your attitudes about government and army, sounds to me like you had expired the army just in time. In my unit, you would have been another of those friendly fire incidents.

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You serving in the military right now? You are defending something that is into big time drug testing, I was an ranger, one of the first women, and did serve my time. If you are so up on the whole system than why smoke pot? America is also involved in another war, have you heard of it, THE WAR ON DRUGS. They have made this war one of the most costly wars we have ever fought and are losing in a major way. I canâ??t work for the system; I know in my heart that a lot of what the government does is wrong. PERIOD. Love the attitude about someone on the board being a victim of friendly fire.
Just keeps the bad American name going, trust me I don't trust the American government as far as I can throw them. I use to, but after too many years and witness too many things I know was wrong I can no longer keep silent. :icon220: