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Thats a hell of a lot of intelligence agencies that were completely wrong, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
I completely refuse to believe that THAT MANY intelligence agencies got it wrong. Where did they get their 'intelligence' of WMD anyway? To get something of THAT SCALE wrong, we must have complete idiots running the intelligence agencies around the world man
Yep, I think he was a liar. I don't think he was stupid, though. I think the Bush administration is good at deceiving people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
The "same people" are accusing him of questioning the intel? That's a bit vague, so I'm not exactly sure what you're saying there.Quote:
He questions the intell in 07 and the SAME people are accusing him of the SAME thing, think about that.
We all have our beliefs. Some things you have to feel things out, because there is no proof. I have no intention of proving it to you. In fact, I'm not exactly sure why I'm still discussing this with you. You do bring up good points, but I, as well as you, know that my main point lies in the area regarding you posting a FOX News article for the base of your argument--which I find to be kind of ridiculous.Quote:
The old "cherry picking" line, can't prove it but still believe it, fair enough.
Heh, like I said, it was an example as to why what you said was wrong. I could move to one of those states if I had the money, but unfortunately I do not. Also, we both know that one is not exempt from the federal law in those states. It's still not legal, my friend. It's not free. While the laws in california, alaska, and colorado, are rather lax, it's still in a gray area. Still not freedom! Also, I could bring up the issue of other drugs into the conversation, but that is not free to do here on these boards :).Quote:
I don't know what all that has to do with smoking pot, but I will say again ; you can move one of several states, smoke all pot you want and nobody will care. If you are smoking where it's illegal that's your choice, you have the freedom to do either one.
Well, that's what you've seen... but you haven't seen the actual intelligence report straight from the CIA, have you? Once again, if 15 other nations messed up on the intelligence regarding Iraq, like you said, then how can you possibly say for sure that the intelligence in regard to Iran is not a mistake as well? I've asked a similar question, but you didn't answer it.Quote:
I don't "know" if they are lying, but the evidence suggests that they are hiding "parts" of their program.
And what are those models?Quote:
If they weren't looking to use their nuclear program for weapons, they would cooperate with the IAEA and follow the South Africa, Libya (and in the process North Korea) models.
:stoned:Quote:
Now who's "cherry picking"
Fair enough (although you were criticizing me about how I decide to "disregard" things because it doesn't fit my own personal belief, which is at least slightly true for the both of us).Quote:
I'm not criticizing you, I'm talking to you.:)
So if somebody can help corroborate my side of the story then it's an echo chamber, and not smart?Quote:
Translation,the "echo chamber' is on my side, c'mom, you're smarter than that.
/\/\/\ i corrobate his story and im not in an echo chamber, im in a room.
however i would argue that fox news is the biggest echo chamer there is
Indeed it is, and a very manipulative one with half-truths and outright lies at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowblind
I mean, come on, FOX News is one of the news agencies that still try to spit out Reefer Madness-esque propaganda towards cannabis. So I guess we must be wrong in thinking that cannabis is not a bad drug, too.
The only bottom line is everything you see on television is there to alter your mind. If you want to learn real information, do actual research, hear opinions, hold the words of the politicians to their throats, because their outrageous lies are an assault to our credibility as a people's country.
It is foolish for you poor souls to attack one another, oblivious to who has truly succeeded from your activity.
If you believe France is building an "empire", OK I believe Iraq is building a free country.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowblind
Who is everyone ?:DQuote:
its ok, but like you said its SCARY when someone else has opinions different to yours. Like everyone else is showing.
The good guys are winning every day, in Iraq & Afghanistan your own country is helping, and doing some great things.Quote:
You wont win this because as you have proven all information and 'intelligence' is based on nothing but bullcrap. lies upon lies upon lies.
It seems that only Bush has learned from his mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
I hope you enjoy talking with other people. and hearing what their world view is.Quote:
In fact, I'm not exactly sure why I'm still discussing this with you.
Thank you, so do you.Quote:
You do bring up good points,
On that we disagree, I don't reject (or accept) anything based on who the messenger is.Quote:
but I, as well as you, know that my main point lies in the area regarding you posting a FOX News article for the base of your argument--which I find to be kind of ridiculous.
I'll skip this for now.Quote:
Heh, like I said, it was an example as to why what you said was wrong. I could move to one of those states if I had the money, but unfortunately I do not. Also, we both know that one is not exempt from the federal law in those states. It's still not legal, my friend. It's not free. While the laws in california, alaska, and colorado, are rather lax, it's still in a gray area. Still not freedom! Also, I could bring up the issue of other drugs into the conversation, but that is not free to do here on these boards :).
I don't know,Quote:
Well, that's what you've seen... but you haven't seen the actual intelligence report straight from the CIA, have you? Once again, if 15 other nations messed up on the intelligence regarding Iraq, like you said, then how can you possibly say for sure that the intelligence in regard to Iran is not a mistake as well? I've asked a similar question, but you didn't answer it.
The military uses of South Africa, Libya (and North Korea) nuclear programs were/are dismantled under IAEI (UN) supervision, with the inspectors given "full access".Quote:
And what are those models?
I saw that as an observation, not criticism,Quote:
Fair enough (although you were criticizing me about how I decide to "disregard" things because it doesn't fit my own personal belief,
which is at least slightly true for the both of us).
yes we are guilty of it sometimes, it's a bad habit.Quote:
which is at least slightly true for the both of us).
The people who always agree with you, aren't really going to help you learn anything, in the long run.Quote:
So if somebody can help corroborate my side of the story then it's an echo chamber,
It's not about intelligence.Quote:
and not smart?
I don't know about that. I don't think he considers what he's done as mistakes. But that's just speculation on my part.Quote:
It seems that only Bush has learned from his mistakes.
Oh, indeed, I do. I just thought that it was starting to become a bit pointless, as neither of us are going to persuade eachother of our beliefs :).Quote:
I hope you enjoy talking with other people. and hearing what their world view is.
Thanks!Quote:
Thank you, so do you.
Even if the messenger is notorious for providing misleading information? I read FOX News and watch it occasionally, but I only take what they say with a grain of salt. They are not credible, and therefore that is my reasoning for this.Quote:
On that we disagree, I don't reject (or accept) anything based on who the messenger is.
Neither does anyone else, but I have my bets placed on the idea that it was used to deceive the American public into supporting the war(s).Quote:
I don't know,
Why doesn't the US follow this model, and dismantle their nukes as well?Quote:
The military uses of South Africa, Libya (and North Korea) nuclear programs were/are dismantled under IAEI (UN) supervision, with the inspectors given "full access".
Well, ok, I guess it is an observation. You're right.Quote:
I saw that as an observation, not criticism,
Now that is what I do agree with you on. You're very right there. Like I said, I do listen to opposing views, and I'm doing it here, am I not? I have conversations like this all the time.Quote:
The people who always agree with you, aren't really going to help you learn anything, in the long run.
Then why did you tell me that I was "smarter than that"?Quote:
It's not about intelligence.
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think we've both exhausted our arguments--I know I have. If you haven't, then I guess you win :).
I agree, I mean thank God we have offered over 3000 heroic troops to eliminate all those weapons of mass destruction Hussein had!! We are a much safer country now Saddam is dead, half of our military is over seas, few are watching our borders, and we are giving our grandchildren a bankrupt economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Screw what the founding fathers said about entangling alliances, what the fuck did they know about anything?
:rolleyes:
Screw democracy, too. Hopefully someday that when you speak out against the Bush administration, you'll be locked up in 5x5 cell for 3 years before you can even call your family. And not only that, but I hope to God one day we'll have a police state here in America... I mean, we need to do it for protection, it's obvious. Giving up freedom for a short period of time so that we can be safe from these terrorists is a necessity, and it's a requirement here in America. At least until we kill every single terrorist there is in the world, and make sure we kill anyone who has the potential of having a baby that will grow up to be a terrorist. And don't forget, we need to get rid of everyone who even thinks about it. Soon terrorists will be spreading their propaganda through America, and converting freedom loving Americans to liberty hating terrorists... their thought crimes will not be tolerated, and will be rid of by any means necessary. You're either with us or against us. The terrorists are against us, and they will be locked up in extrajudicial prisons. Torture is now okay, because, well, they are terrorists. Every single one that we place under arrest and put into the extrajudicial prison Guantanamo Bay aided in killing 3,000 people on 9/11, and therefore it is not bad to torture them. Afterall, they killed 3,000 people. Every single one of them. Soon, all terrorist propaganda, such as certain books, etc, must be destroyed. Anyone carrying these books after their destruction is an enemy combatant, and could suicide bomb you or your family at a moment's notice by the order of the terrorist headmaster himself, Osama Bin Laden. If you see someone carrying a book that is on the list for incineration, it is your duty to help save this infestation in America, by reporting it to your local Blackwater agents. We will not stand for tyranny here in America. This is America, land of the free; it is not "Land of the Terrorists."Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailhead
"And by the way, American people... thank you for allowing me to have ultimate dictatorial powers. Not that I'm using them like a dictator, of course. This is America, afterall." - George W. Bush, soon