Some front line views of the war against God.
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It isn't a question about morality. Why do you bring morality into it? You can't disprove evolution by bringing up a point about "morality."
Im not and never have tried to disprove evolution, I simply said that there exists the question of morality in regards to the theory of evolution, saying this does not mean I am attempting to 'disprove' it.
For all we know morality does exist in evolutionary thinking and we will all be punished for putting our own selfish desires and needs before others, on the other hand there could be no universal law or God to punish us for trying to survive.
Im just saying that these are the kinds of questions which need to be addressed by evolutionists, including the lack of evidence and the negative aspects to the theory, atleast give the students/school kids creationism as another potential viable option.
You cant just rule it out.
Im not taking either a creationists or evolutionists perspectives side.
Its easy to debate someone when you categorize them into a particular belief, or segment of thinking. This is the first step, to find out exactly what you wish to shoot down.
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Well, your posts get kind of long and boring, so I do end up skimming.
Well I cant always compensate for the lack of your attention span, if you find them boring then dont read them. Believe in evolution as you see fit to believe it is true then please do so.
Like I said before, atheists are at the bottom of the pile for me, and im no creationist (confused?)
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I see much more corruption in the realms of religion than in the realms of the theory of Evolution. Religion is a doctrine, and Evolution is a theory.
You seem to be one of the millions of people who move from one theory to the other without questioning yourself or the theories you believe.
Im presuming at some point in your life you were religious, something, some kind of questioning and thinking brought you away from it and you chose evolution?
How about questioning evolution?
There is as much evidence to support evolution as there is to support the creation of us by the Judea Christian God.
Take that into consideration before you move on forums proclaiming how stupid creationists are.
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Religion is a doctrine, and Evolution is a theory.
And what point are you trying to make here? That doctrines are more evil than theories?
And how do you go about measuring such an absurd statement?
If your brother was a more intelligent/stronger individual than you then eugenics tells me (which derives from evolution) that you are inferior, you are not needed on this earth so you will be killed.
Your wasting valuable resources by existing (remember we are trying to improve humanity) - who needs disabled people? Who needs deaf people? Who needs any of these people?
This is the thinking that evolution has given birth to.
EUGENICS
So donâ??t ever sit there saying that religion has not caused as much evil as evolution because if you do research on some of the horrific aspects and history of eugenics programmes it will lead you to the most horrid areas of Nazi Germany you have ever seen in your life.
So think about that before you accuse religion of such evils, and what evils? Corrupt priests and caliphs? Notice the word CORRUPT!
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Perhaps you mean that you see corruption in science as well? Of course there is. One example is the demonizing of cannabis, and false scientific reports on how "bad" it is.
Demonising cannabis? Is that the best you can come up with? How about eugenics which I keep mentioning? How about preservation of blood lines? Nazi Germany practiced eugenics and population control thoroughly.
Evolution gives birth to ideologies such as the Superior master white races such as the aryans race, who feel they are the most evolved species.
Remember evolution states that we evolved from rocks.
Why donâ??t you do some research on Josef Mengele, a profound believer of evolution and eugenics.
Nazi eugenics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Josef Mengele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(I hope im not boring you)
If you believe in evolution and I asked you questions such as, do you think innocent people should be killed so that you can survive? You would have to answer yes to avoid contradiction.
Charles Darwin was a racist plagiarist, who wrote his grandfathers work the origin of species.
Im not going to debate from a creationists perspective with you because I not once said I support the views of creationism, I am just saying that evolutionist/atheists should firstly consider the validity of their own beliefs before claiming creationists are idiots and retards.
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Leading Nazis, and early 1900 influential German biologists, revealed in their writings that Darwinâ??s theory and publications had a major influence upon Nazi race policies. Hitler believed that the human gene pool could be improved by using selective breeding similar to how farmers breed superior cattle strains. In the formulation of their racial policies, Hitlerâ??s government relied heavily upon Darwinism, especially the elaborations by Spencer and Haeckel. As a result, a central policy of Hitlerâ??s administration was the development and implementation of policies designed to protect the â??superior raceâ??. This required at the very least preventing the â??inferior racesâ?? from mixing with those judged superior, in order to reduce contamination of the latterâ??s gene pool. The â??superior raceâ?? belief was based on the theory of group inequality within each species, a major presumption and requirement of Darwinâ??s original â??survival of the fittestâ?? theory. This philosophy culminated in the â??final solutionâ??, the extermination of approximately six million Jews and four million other people who belonged to what German scientists judged as â??inferior racesâ??.
So before you make claims such as:
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I see much more corruption in the realms of religion than in the realms of the theory of Evolution.
I suggest you research 'in favour of your opposition' if you truly believe you are correct about what you say then look at it from every angle.
People often say the Nazi movement was a mass implementation of Darwinian thinking.
I would agree.
I just want you to understand what you are actually saying when you type messages on here. You need to look at both sides of the story, I am in no way saying evolution is not true, I am in no way saying creationism is or is not true. You can put words in my mouth and categorize my belief system all you like yet this is an illusion you are creating to entertain your boredom.
Evolutionists must realise the lack of evidence of what they talk about in terms of criticizing creationists, this leads me back to the original subject about teaching evolution in schools as oppose to creationism. As you know I still stand by my claims that children should be told of the lack of evidence, and the negative side of evolution, and also shown creationism/intelligent design as a viable reason for our coming of existence.
This was my original point, the fact that I mentioned the "question of morality" is just an example of one of the items which should be told to students with regards to the theory of evolution, I by no means say that evolution completely lacks morality (but there is a huge question mark) yet these kinds of questions and 'sides of the story' are never put forward in education.
The history of the evils of religion, evolution and indoctrination into cults for example itself must be addressed - this does not mean mfqr you need to post me back a message complaining about me criticizing indoctrination and cults - but in essence this is what you have been doing over your past few messages (an example being the subject of evolution and morality).
This is why I say I hope you are reading my posts thoroughly, if you lose attention then I guess this is not an area for you.
You said:
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Well, your posts get kind of long and boring, so I do end up skimming.
Cannabis has been shown to lower the attention spans of smokers and effect memory and concentration maybe you should cut back on the weed?
(Im actually trying to make this more fun for your brain by changing colours and text size and fonts etc, I hope this helps.)
Im just giving examples of the kinds of questions which are never asked by evolutionists of themselves or even by creationists about their own beliefs.
The ignorance exists on both sides.
And you are free to disagree.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Cannabis has been shown to lower the attention spans of smokers and effect memory and concentration maybe you should cut back on the weed?
(Im actually trying to make this more fun for your brain by changing colours and text size and fonts etc, I hope this helps.)
Im just giving examples of the kinds of questions which are never asked by evolutionists of themselves or even by creationists about their own beliefs.
No offense but that's pretty desperate. To be honest your whole post is desperate. What examples - you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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Evolutionists must realise the lack of evidence of what they talk about in terms of criticizing creationists, this leads me back to the original subject about teaching evolution in schools as oppose to creationism. As you know I still stand by my claims that children should be told of the lack of evidence, and the negative side of evolution, and also shown creationism/intelligent design as a viable reason for our coming of existence.
Oh man, stop - my sides are splitting.
There really is tons of evidence - from many fields - which consolidates evolution. You know this already, that's why you are trying so hard to argue against it.
You guys scare the shit out of me.
Some front line views of the war against God.
You keep bringing up the question of morality. Why? Evolution doesn't tell us we are required to kill people weaker than ourselves, it tells us people weaker than ourselves are less likely to survive.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
If your brother was a more intelligent/stronger individual than you then eugenics tells me (which derives from evolution) that you are inferior, you are not needed on this earth so you will be killed.
This is obviously false. If we take this to the extreme, then only one person can be rated the "strongest" and all others should perish, thereby eliminating the species.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Your wasting valuable resources by existing (remember we are trying to improve humanity) - who needs disabled people? Who needs deaf people? Who needs any of these people?
Hawking is a man who is unable to take care of himself, but he is a brilliant mind. Do we "need" him? No, but he sure is nice to have around.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
This is the thinking that evolution has given birth to.
No it hasn't.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
If you believe in evolution and I asked you questions such as, do you think innocent people should be killed so that you can survive? You would have to answer yes to avoid contradiction.
No you don't. Most humans realize, perhaps on some innate level, that killing off our own has less value than helping each other survive. Most humans develop something called empathy that makes us feel awful about harming one another. Having someone physically weaker and less intelligent around myself has no bearing on my ability to survive. Why not keep them around?
I can use different colours, sizes and fonts as well, it's annoying.
Some front line views of the war against God.
^^ Plus you never know when one of your "less than stellar" genetic friends might just have something really handy in their genes.
Selective mutation ~ genetic variation :thumbsup:
Evolution didn't give rise to Eugenics - Wankers did.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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This is obviously false. If we take this to the extreme, then only one person can be rated the "strongest" and all others should perish, thereby eliminating the species.
Yes it is false, which is exactly my point, why you felt the need to quote and describe your own opinion of it being false I do not know.
That extreme you described could be used in the context of many theories if I took them to 'their extreme'. It doesnt matter, the fact remains that eugenics teaches these elements of selective breeding no matter what extreme you wish to take them to.
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Hawking is a man who is unable to take care of himself, but he is a brilliant mind. Do we "need" him? No, but he sure is nice to have around.
Yes eugenics does disregard disabled people as inferior, which in the case of stephen hawking simply is not true, disabled people ARE NOT INFERIOR which is my point, again you do not debunk my points only reinforce them.
Yes it has, much of the foundations of eugenics are derrived from extreme darwinistic teachings, or if you prefer to find me another origin please do so.
Nazi Germany based much of its movements with a darwinistic ideology of a superior race (this is darwinism).
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No you don't. Most humans realize, perhaps on some innate level, that killing off our own has less value than helping each other survive. Most humans develop something called empathy that makes us feel awful about harming one another. Having someone physically weaker and less intelligent around myself has no bearing on my ability to survive. Why not keep them around?
If you believed in evolution and you also disagree with random acts of violence, or a 'kill to survive' action of murder you would be in as much contradtion as me following chrstianity and saying praising jesus is stupid.
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Evolution didn't give rise to Eugenics - Wankers did.
Modern day eugenics which focuses upon the aspects which I have described above in previous posts was founded by Sir Francis Galton in 1865 - who was Charles Darwins half cousin.
Let me elaborate with an extract on actual eugenic theory and how it smacks of evolution and darwinistic elements.
"Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention.[1] Throughout history, eugenics has been regarded by its various advocates as a social responsibility, an altruistic stance of a society, meant to create healthier and more intelligent people, to save resources, and lessen human suffering. More controversially, some, such as the Nazi regime in Germany, used eugenics as a pretext for racial discrimination.
Earlier proposed means of achieving these goals focused on selective breeding, while modern ones focus on prenatal testing and screening, genetic counseling, birth control, in vitro fertilization, and genetic engineering. Opponents argue that eugenics is immoral and is based on, or is itself, pseudoscience. Historically, eugenics has been used as a justification for coercive state-sponsored discrimination and human rights violations, such as forced sterilization of persons who are claimed to have genetic defects, the killing of the institutionalized population and, in some cases, outright genocide of races perceived as inferior or undesirable".
Again I do not speak of evolution being incorrect, I am just saying (I feel I am repeating myself for no reason) that there are certain elements which must be addressed about evolution in the classroom.
I wish people would actually stick to the subject of evolution in the classroom and not rant on about debate points between creationism and evolution.
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Oh man, stop - my sides are splitting.
There really is tons of evidence - from many fields - which consolidates evolution. You know this already, that's why you are trying so hard to argue against it.
You guys scare the shit out of me.
Can you prove we evolved from apes?
Wow, because seriously there are a ton of institutions who are offering millions to anyone who can prove evolution.
Which is why we have so many cases of 'fake missing links'.
I seriously do not trust the comments and intellect on this site when I have heard people say:
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"science deals with things we can see and observe, thats why evolution is in our classrooms"
To which I replied:
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"Have you ever seen an ape evolve into a man?"
hmm...
I understand that you wish to brandish me a creationist and shoot down creationism, then please do so, I am by no means a creationist or an evolutionist, both parties are lacking great deals of evidence.
I wont ever forget the evolutionist who said we have the same number of chromosomes as apes, which is a viable enough explanation as to why we got here as humans (that we evolved from these apes).
To which the creationist replied, well, I know something else which has the same number of chromosomes as humans and its tobacco.
The crowd applauded, the debate continued.
.....Oh and please do explain how evolving from rocks is a good enough explanation as to why we are here today (and dont hide behind your 4 billion years of evolution story).
Some front line views of the war against God.
Oh and delta 9, you asked in your previous post for me to find you a website offering substantial amounts of money for people like you to prove evolution.
Creation Science Evangelism - Creation, Evolution, Dinosaurs, and the Bible.
Prove it. :thumbsup:
Its been up for nearly 20 years and nobody can prove it.
Its still going strong.
So there you are.
Remember, dont expect me to debate about evolution as if im some kind of creationist, if thats what your looking for here then you wont find it.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Yes it has, much of the foundations of eugenics are derrived from extreme darwinistic teachings, or if you prefer to find me another origin please do so.
Nazi Germany based much of its movements with a darwinistic ideology of a superior race (this is darwinism).
Astrology is based upon the positions of the stars. Just because there is something wrong with astrology, that doesn't invalidate the position of the stars, only the assumptions or interpretations derived from them.
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If you believed in evolution and you also disagree with random acts of violence, or a 'kill to survive' action of murder you would be in as much contradtion as me following chrstianity and saying praising jesus is stupid.
Why is this? What if I view evolution simply as something that happens, and not something we are to persue? We do kill to survive, we kill many other animals and plants. We've set up a society that not everyone needs to be a hunter or a gatherer. The people collecting and hunting the food could simply not allow anyone else to get it, but then some of the other 6 billion people might realize this and kill the hunters (with more advanced weaponry), and hunt on their own. We've come to realize that the species can survive though sharing and diversity (ie: not killing each other). How does this conflict with evolution again?
And Dr. Dino... I'm off to a concert, but if no one else point out the many flaws of the contest design itself, I'll do so either tonight or tomorrow, without bringing up Dr Dino's moral character.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Astrology is based upon the positions of the stars. Just because there is something wrong with astrology, that doesn't invalidate the position of the stars, only the assumptions or interpretations derived from them.
No its not because you are not in touch with the foundations of this debate and why I brought up the whole question of eugenics.
You are hijacking this thread.
My original reasons for bringing up eugenics was based around the fact that evolutionary thinking and doctrines which were created by the founder of evolution Charles Darwin gave birth to terrible atrocious ideologies SUCH AS eugenics.
These points in turn are not communicated effectively in the schooling system (which is the original topic - stick to it or leave this thread and create your own if you wish to debate evolution Vs creationism), the negative sides to evolution AND creationism must be addressed, unfortunately we give the children no choice - you cannot just rule out creationism and say we evolved from rocks because there is no evidence to support evolution anyway.
How on earth can you replace a theory which has no evidence to support it with another theory with no evidence and label the latter as truth?
Do you see the paradox evolutionists reside in now?
Atleast give them the option and hold creationism as a viable reason for existence.
You cannot whatsoever, any evolutionist cannot rule out intelligent design, this is something you will have to live with until you complete the endless task of trying to prove that we evolved from rocks, into aquatic organisms and so forth into apes and into humans.
Of course animals in their kingdom may evolve without taking into account the fact that the theory of evolution has created such terrible things in OUR societies and history.
This is why you have not realised the foundations of my points in this debate which did not concern you, you just jumped in uninvited as you always do.
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Why is this? What if I view evolution simply as something that happens, and not something we are to persue? We do kill to survive, we kill many other animals and plants. We've set up a society that not everyone needs to be a hunter or a gatherer. The people collecting and hunting the food could simply not allow anyone else to get it, but then some of the other 6 billion people might realize this and kill the hunters (with more advanced weaponry), and hunt on their own. We've come to realize that the species can survive though sharing and diversity (ie: not killing each other). How does this conflict with evolution again?
Again I must point out for the millionth time that your debates and points do nothing by exemplify the theory of evolution which itself has never been proven and along with an atheists perception of causes of existence.
You are free to believe, as creationists do in a theory which is based upon no evidence.
I have not once said that evolution is not true, yet if you wish to continue to categorize me into the segment of creationists then please do so, I am not one.
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And Dr. Dino... I'm off to a concert, but if no one else point out the many flaws of the contest design itself, I'll do so either tonight or tomorrow, without bringing up Dr Dino's moral character.
Again - why do you continually stray from points you cannot answer?
The man can be a rapist for all I care, he could be an inter dimensional alien being from mars with a wife and children on private health care with BUPA. It doesnt matter.
I didnt give that link to reccommend a speaker/author to you.
I did it because Delta 9 asked me to provide it for him as evidence, and yes I provided it. Which is more than what I can say for evolutionists and their evidence!:)
It doesnt matter who offers the reward, the most significant factor is that none of you atheistic evolutionists can answer to it.
And this is a reason why we should still give our children the option of choosing intelligent design above evolution.
Dont fool yourselves into thinking evolution and scientific study is 'above' religion.
I want everyone in here to - if they believe so much that their scientific athetistic study is above religion to read a book called "Science and Islam".
Like I said you may think your climbing the mountain of truth, yet when you reach the top a creationist COULD be sitting there.
Dont rule out creationism and think you are 'above' it because you watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube, I know people - a profound amount of creationists who study science related subjects in masters and Degree level qualifications, they are all creationists.
Studying science for some of my friends brought them closer to religion, one friend in particular said science and islam do not contradict each other.
So I believe that children in the educational system should be given the option of creationism as it is still as viable a theory as evolution.
This is all im saying, I by no means intend to say evolution is entirely not true.
Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
No its not because you are not in touch with the foundations of this debate and why I brought up the whole question of eugenics.
You are hijacking this thread.
My original reasons for bringing up eugenics was based around the fact that evolutionary thinking and doctrines which were created by the founder of evolution Charles Darwin gave birth to terrible atrocious ideologies SUCH AS eugenics.
These points in turn are not communicated effectively in the schooling system (which is the original topic - stick to it or leave this thread and create your own if you wish to debate evolution Vs creationism), the negative sides to evolution AND creationism must be addressed, unfortunately we give the children no choice - you cannot just rule out creationism and say we evolved from rocks because there is no evidence to support evolution anyway.
How on earth can you replace a theory which has no evidence to support it with another theory with no evidence and label the latter as truth?
Do you see the paradox evolutionists reside in now?
Atleast give them the option and hold creationism as a viable reason for existence.
You cannot whatsoever, any evolutionist cannot rule out intelligent design, this is something you will have to live with until you complete the endless task of trying to prove that we evolved from rocks, into aquatic organisms and so forth into apes and into humans.
Of course animals in their kingdom may evolve without taking into account the fact that the theory of evolution has created such terrible things in OUR societies and history.
This is why you have not realised the foundations of my points in this debate which did not concern you, you just jumped in uninvited as you always do.
Again I must point out for the millionth time that your debates and points do nothing by exemplify the theory of evolution which itself has never been proven and along with an atheists perception of causes of existence.
You are free to believe, as creationists do in a theory which is based upon no evidence.
I have not once said that evolution is not true, yet if you wish to continue to categorize me into the segment of creationists then please do so, I am not one.
Again - why do you continually stray from points you cannot answer?
The man can be a rapist for all I care, he could be an inter dimensional alien being from mars with a wife and children on private health care with BUPA. It doesnt matter.
I didnt give that link to reccommend a speaker/author to you.
I did it because Delta 9 asked me to provide it for him as evidence, and yes I provided it. Which is more than what I can say for evolutionists and their evidence!:)
It doesnt matter who offers the reward, the most significant factor is that none of you atheistic evolutionists can answer to it.
And this is a reason why we should still give our children the option of choosing intelligent design above evolution.
Dont fool yourselves into thinking evolution and scientific study is 'above' religion.
I want everyone in here to - if they believe so much that their scientific athetistic study is above religion to read a book called "Science and Islam".
Like I said you may think your climbing the mountain of truth, yet when you reach the top a creationist COULD be sitting there.
Dont rule out creationism and think you are 'above' it because you watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube, I know people - a profound amount of creationists who study science related subjects in masters and Degree level qualifications, they are all creationists.
Studying science for some of my friends brought them closer to religion, one friend in particular said science and islam do not contradict each other.
So I believe that children in the educational system should be given the option of creationism as it is still as viable a theory as evolution.
This is all im saying, I by no means intend to say evolution is entirely not true.
Damn, you just repeat yourself all the time. In every post.
Also, I think that you're just a troll, now that I think about it.
