100% humans have called for GOD
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Originally Posted by reaper666
That's why I said that we can't say it doesn't exist, did I say it doesn't exist? I just said there is no proof of it's existence. Would you not agree that God is conceptual? I'd like to hear why not, if not :)
Well... in this case, i agree with you. We really have not any concrete, factual proof of His existence, so, yes, i must admit that, in strictly logical terms, God is conceptual.
Yet for me, personally, i would call God a "well accepted theory" (gandalf's words), as for me it explains things which the actual science and knowledge dont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsunoles
It's crazy how all the great books are a timeline of the world.Everything that is being said on this forum is what the almighty said would happen in the last days.
"Oh... it makes me wonder... " it scares me... cause i believe its true... and so, the end is near...
100% humans have called for GOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper666
I'm sure there have been skeptics since the earliest days of religion. Why is it wrong to question your religion? What gives any religion the power to say that they are right (with not proof) and I am wrong? I hope you can at least understand the perspective of a skeptic because if you blindly follow something without question that has not been proven then you give up the one thing that allowed humans to rise out of the jungles and even establish a religion, curiosity, free will and the desire to learn the truth. I mean it's ok to follow a religion, it's none of my business, but haven't you ever questioned the validity of it?
Man... i must agree with you in this point too... im a believer, but i always have a scientist's mind (as im one), so i always questioned my religious beliefs... and the most surprising thing... i was born and raised Christian, then i kinda left it a bit, learned some things about buddism, occultism, shamanism, and surprisingly this religions brought me back to the christianism... i became amazed that religions so different could have so much in common... for me, personally, thats the evidence of the existence of something "greater" "outside there", what i call God.
100% humans have called for GOD
I personally believe that there is no "god" and that you don't go to "heaven" or "hell", etc. We're in a world full of chemical reactions baby. Keep in mind all of the crazy things that religion and its people have brought. Religion has brought upon war of all things, wow god must have used reverse psychology.
This is what I think happened. A long time ago after the earth became inhabitable and evolution made some changes, we were here. After much trial and error our brains developed more and at some point someone or group decided that we need a set of rules that everone will follow no matter what. What better way than to have them follow the rules than to tell them that they're not just jeopardizing their time here on earth but for the rest of eternity, "oh noooooooo". People were more stupid then than they are now, so of course people not only listened but began practicing and preeching these ways. How do you keep people from realizing it's a sham? Easy, you tell them that if they don't believe then they will be punished. If they request proof they'll be punished, etc. "You know you have to have faith". I can see other reasons why religious beliefs began, probably because so many diseases and problems early on that in order to provide people with a sense of well being, religion was introduced. Pray away all your worries as god will take care of you. No need to be afraid of dying, you'll go to heaven and see all the other dead people and you'll get to meet god. :hippy:
Take a look at all of the different religions that are out there, I bet you can't name them all. Southpark did a great skit one time where everyone was being punished because so many people had picked the wrong religion, when the right one was some strange religion not widely practiced.
God is up there with Santa Claus in my opinion. We live in a scientific world and none of that shit makes any practical sense so I don't understand why people continue to follow this shit. What pisses me off is that some politicians aren't "catholic enough" or "religious enough" and I think if that's true we need them in office, not people who rely on "faith"? It's ridiculous and very upsetting.
Here's the thing, I don't go around telling people that they shouldn't believe in god (unless of course we're discussing it which is very rare for me) nor do I speak of how I personally don't think one exists. This is because people get upset, etc. and frankly I don't care if you're dumb enough to believe in Santa or your fairy god mother. What pisses me off is when I hear people complaining about their busy life because they have to go to church, or worse when people at work are talking about what god will or won't do, and it's like shut the @#!* up. If I wanted my head to be filled with mumbo jumbo bull shit I would join a @#!*ing cult or maybe even a church.
Even worse, there are "rules" that make it so that we can't discriminate against people's religious beliefs. Why the hell not? I know if I'm hiring for a position and there's someone who thinks logically like me and knows there aint no god I'm going to hire that person over the person who prays to god for god to make everything alright.
Ok I feel much better after getting that off my chest. Thanks for listening.
100% humans have called for GOD
^^^^ I foresee soon you will get some heated responses...
100% humans have called for GOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
^^^^ I foresee soon you will get some heated responses...
Behold the creator is among us!!:hippy:
100% humans have called for GOD
Calling on God is what God wants you to do, so that it may begin to guide you. If you never verbally asked for help then God cannot touch you or affect you at all.
100% humans have called for GOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
Does it is a good enough proof?
If five people see a mirage of water in the desert, can they drink from it then?
100% humans have called for GOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
Well... our explanations today are more ingenious, more mathematical, and yet explains nothing. For example, in the old days they could say a rock falls because its the Will of God that rocks fall. It doesnt explain much. Well, and today? We say that the Earth have mass, and it makes the space-time around it become curved, so the directest way for the rock in the space-time is to follow a falling path, so it falls. But we dont know why does matter curves the space, or why does the matter must follow the directest way in the space-time. So, we just change the place of the unknown things. Why does matter curves space, or matter follows the directest path? I know why... because thats the Will of God. :p
I'm too stoned to remember all the details, but if you study quantum string theory there are very good explanations for this. Yes, they are all theoretical, but not hypothetical. While we cannot measure the subatomic reactions that we believe control the fabric of reality, we can measure them by their effect. This effect can be retroactively measured in a way that explains how energy would have to move to create these effects.
Matter itself creates a curvature in spacetime, because it is only a more solidified form of the very fabric that makes spacetime. As I've purported before, the lines between "something" and "nothing" are not so distinct as many may think.
Thus far we have seen no evidence, no measurable effects, that would point back to a conscious entity that created and controls the universe.
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For me, there is "something" great, "out there", that we humans can percieve, each one in its own way, that i call "God". Another people can call it another names, but im sure we are talking about much the same thing.
I actually agree with you 100% on this. That's all that gets me, really, is that people think the greatest and ultimate mechanisms of the universe have to be called "God" to have any significance of meaning. I believe that we create what we define as meaning, and understanding the most powerful and elusive aspects of the universe has incredible meaning to me. It has the potential to finally explain the essence of the conscious mind, the human nature we posess and the potential for conscious beings. "God" is traditionally this conscious being, this single fellow with individual thoughts that controls everything, creates everything, and judges us. It oversimplifies to real questions we need to ask.
And I must once again say, quantum theory and evolutionary theories has some solid explanations for how simplicity turned into such incredible complexity. "God" would suggest that something even more complex than all that exists, was necessary for the complexity of all that exists. You see the problem here, no? We don't allow a complex universe to exist without a creator, yet we allow this conscious creator to exist in and of its own accord. It doesn't make a bit of sense.
100% humans have called for GOD
Isn't prayer against the will of God? ;)
Surely asking an all-knowing deity to change its mind - (praying for something to happen) is akin to Satanism?
^^ Now that might get a few heated replies :)
100% humans have called for GOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
I'm too stoned to remember all the details, but if you study quantum string theory there are very good explanations for this. Yes, they are all theoretical, but not hypothetical. While we cannot measure the subatomic reactions that we believe control the fabric of reality, we can measure them by their effect. This effect can be retroactively measured in a way that explains how energy would have to move to create these effects.
Matter itself creates a curvature in spacetime, because it is only a more solidified form of the very fabric that makes spacetime. As I've purported before, the lines between "something" and "nothing" are not so distinct as many may think.
Anyway... my point is, no matter how deep is the explanation, it always lies upon concepts and axioms.
Using the example of the gravity: the Newton's formulation of gravity states simply "supposing that mass atracts mass, the force between then is given by ...".
Then Einstein updates it: "supposing that mass curves the space-time and so, then ..."
This string theory can state anything (i didnt studied it long enough so i dont know what it states), but anything it may state always will start as "supposing that (some concept) behaves like (some another concept), or is like (some another concept), or whatever... "
My point is every theory, always will be based upon a set of axioms, a set of assumptions that are supposed to be true, but not explained. Newton didnt explained why mass atracted mass. Einstein didnt explained why mass curves space-time. I dont know what the strings theory says, so i cant say what it does not explain. But im sure you can get my point with the examples i give.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
I actually agree with you 100% on this. That's all that gets me, really, is that people think the greatest and ultimate mechanisms of the universe have to be called "God" to have any significance of meaning. I believe that we create what we define as meaning, and understanding the most powerful and elusive aspects of the universe has incredible meaning to me. It has the potential to finally explain the essence of the conscious mind, the human nature we posess and the potential for conscious beings. "God" is traditionally this conscious being, this single fellow with individual thoughts that controls everything, creates everything, and judges us. It oversimplifies to real questions we need to ask.
Well... i call it "God" because "God" is the concept which fits better in my undertanding about this... but im sure another people would call it another names. Anyway, what are, for you, the real questions we need to ask?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
And I must once again say, quantum theory and evolutionary theories has some solid explanations for how simplicity turned into such incredible complexity. "God" would suggest that something even more complex than all that exists, was necessary for the complexity of all that exists. You see the problem here, no? We don't allow a complex universe to exist without a creator, yet we allow this conscious creator to exist in and of its own accord. It doesn't make a bit of sense.
Ok... we are reaching the deepest levels of the problem... our descriptions of the world, are made accordingly with our views about the world. If we think everything must have a beggining and a end, then we will believe that the universe HAD to be created once. Some of us will say it was created by God. Another will say it started with the Big-Bang. Anyway, both will seek theories for explain how was the beggining of the universe, because both believe everything must have a beggining.
But, if someone thinks that nothing must have a beggining, that things can exist since always and forever, then it will seek theories of how it could be. And surely it will find too... Ive read a book where S.Hawking states that there is some cosmological theories which does not require a big-bang at the start of the universe. They states the universe had not a beggining, it was here since always.
So, what i mean is we describe the world as we think it is. Then, we seeks in the world proofs which validate our description. When we find this proofs, we think our description is true. When its only a bunch of facts that agree with our preconceptions about the world.
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Originally Posted by Delta9 UK
Isn't prayer against the will of God? ;)
Surely asking an all-knowing deity to change its mind - (praying for something to happen) is akin to Satanism?
^^ Now that might get a few heated replies :)
Well... i think you are blaspheming heavily and thus will burn forever in hell... :p
Anyway, I dont think praying is asking for God to change His mind... A wise prayer will pray like Jesus did: "If it may bee, let this cuppe of death passe from mee; if not, thy will bee done, and not mine (Matthew 26.39, 42)"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
If five people see a mirage of water in the desert, can they drink from it then?
Good point... it will take me a while until i can find a good answer for it...