I must make a correction. The first pic is of a nine WEEK aborted fetus NOT nine MONTHS. Sorry.
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I must make a correction. The first pic is of a nine WEEK aborted fetus NOT nine MONTHS. Sorry.
If calling an unborn child a fetus or an embro and saying it is NOT alive or its NOT human helps you to kill babies.
then so be it. I certainly do not understand that its perfectly ok to kill a unborn child but if my dog was old and sick and i was to put him down i could go to jail.
Are we less then dogs?
:beatdeadhorse:
Your logic seems a bit off here my man. If it's unborn, which it is, how can it be alive? Contradiction at its best. You can't kill something that's not alive, simply put.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatekeeper777
Polymirize continues to rack up credibility as he fends off one after another...Well done. :thumbsup:
that kind of credibility holds no water with me on this subject...... i mean its easy to say kill it while your the one breathing.
The whole debate hinges on when life begins. I guess its a personal choice. some say when the child draws the first breath and some (like me) say when the cells start to divide.
And by the way Bill Clinton allowed partial birth abortions. the doctor would stick the scalple into the babies brain before the shoulders popped out.
As long as 50% of the baby was still in the birth canal they cold perform the
operation.
why is it that we can do this...when the law states we can not kill someone that wants to die with dignity like Dr.Kavorkian? With assisted suicide?
It is my undying hope that we as a race of beings ABORT the one child that would have grown up to become a doctor and cured cancer or aids.
But who's to say an unborn child isn't alive, That's like saying a Kangaroo joey in it's mothers pouch isn't alive. Wait You'll argue the breathing part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Plant
Ok Now I'll compare a fetus to a common house plant, the rubber tree. When you go to clone a rubber tree one method is to slit the stalk halfway and to tie on a bag of moist growing medium for the roots to form in. It still gets nurtishment from the main plant while growing a foundation for which it can grow independently. Even if the mother plant dies while the roots are forming if there is a begining of roots the cloned portion still attached can survive as the mother parishes. Is that clone not alive because it is begining a new being from an established one? Is that clone alive but only in the sense that it is still conected to the mother, thus only the mother is alive?
How about the parasites and organisms that live and breed and form inside of our bodies comsuming us? Are they not alive because we sustain them and transport their nutrients and oxygen to them. A tape worm is alive, so it a tumor. No brain you argue? A jelly fish and many sea creatures have no true brain only nuclie to dictate the function of the organism, and since every cell has a nuclie every cell single or making up fetus is alive, It just makes us feel better if we don't think that way.
These aren't plants or joeys or trees or jellyfish or tapeworms or tumors though.
We're talking about humans.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. If it's not breathing, and surviving on it's own, it's not alive. You cannot kill something if it hasn't been born (aka given life) yet. That's the road my logic takes me anyways. ~
You're too kind man. This is like shooting fish in a barrel. Which is to say, not to challenging but still loads of fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Plant
:D
Haven't seen as much of you now that you're mod'ing. Miss your posting, but I suppose you're busy. I understand. Hard out here to be a mod...
:thumbsup:
First, to clarify, I don't need any help killing babies. If I got paid to do it, I'd be a rich man, and I'd still do it on the weekends as my hobby.
No, not really.
You're probably right. However, legally, one side gets screwed either way here apparently. And I guess you've got to ask yourself that even if abortion isn't desirable (and it's not, I admit that) is it better to respect the rights and autonomy of some fetus, or of the actual sentient beings with lives of their own?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatekeeper777
Chrissy has been so eager to prove that fetus are alive that she's cast the largest net she can. And I guess I'll have to conceed that fetus, and embryos, hell, even eggs, sperm and singular cells, are all alive.
When you reduce life to this term though, it becomes less special. You see, I consume life everyday. I'm a vegetarian, but my lunch is still a holocaust for the proud race of romaine lettace and cucumbers.
You've really boxed yourself into a corner, because now, in order to convince me that abortion is wrong, you'll also have to explain to me why we shouldn't operate on tumors, dislodge tapeworms, or eat... well, apparently anything other than rocksalt.
Ain't equivocation a bitch?
First I have to say I love science. There is a problem we all have.
That problem is what is life and what is not.
With our quest 2 find life elsewhere in the oceans or on another planet or moon with a sea of water under the ice how do we classify it? whould it look us in the face and say "hello" and pay my back taxes? Or be a single celled organism.
We operate on tumors because even tho they are alive they are cells that have gotten the genetic code wrong and have mutated.
A tape worm on the other hand don't have any other purpose then to get inside you and live off of you, unlike a potential human child it has no potential for love or hate. It wants to be there to harvest your energy. As with an embro or fetus it never asked to be there and it never asked to be decapitated in the womb.
But there is ONE FACT I will say, "Most woman that have made the choice to have an abortion have regreted the decision leaving some to become manic depressive.
Maybe once you have the potential of becomming a parent the choice to terminate wont be so clear because once its made there is no going back you will always remember "My aborted fetus should be 14 today." You will never forget the one you gave up to the DUMPSTER no matter how many childern you let live.
There is life in everything, we do consume life everyday. I won't cut a tree down if it is not needed, nor will I pull up carrots or onions from my garden if I don't intend on using them. Plant have just as much determination to survive as any other living things using every last resource to protect it's existance of itself and the extention of it's life through procreating. This theory alone is what brings us all here by smoking a plant that has given it's every bit of energy for the best oppertunity to reproduce while we deprive it of the chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Our main goal in life is survival, survival of ourselves, and survival of our species. A tumor is an abnormal formation of cells that threaten our wellbeing, a tape worm parasite sucking our nourishment both for their own survival. A fetus may be a parasite but is what our bodies are designed to host and accomidate, a womans whole body is designed to feed and house a human fetus, and a man is designed to impregnate. The reason we eat, breathe, excrete toxins, is to survive to make a new human to make a new human to ensure survival. That is the difference between a fetus and forgien parasite that is designed to feed off the life supply of other creatures.
Abortion is wrong because the fetus has a will to live and survive and in the event of an emergency the mothers body will sacrifice itself too save the baby with more determination than it would to save its own even if the curupt mind would like to choose otherwise.
"Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally. A diverse array of living organisms can be found in the biosphere on Earth. Properties common to these organisms â?? plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria â?? are a carbon and water-based cellular form with complex organization and genetic information. They undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.
An entity with the above properties is considered to be a living organism, that is an organism that is alive hence can be called a life form. However, not every definition of life considers all of these properties to be essential. For example, the capacity for descent with modification is often taken as the only essential property of life. This definition notably includes viruses, which do not qualify under narrower definitions as they are acellular and do not metabolise. Broader definitions of life may also include theoretical non-carbon-based life and other alternative biology."
There is you definition for life and a Fetus meets every critiria. They have fat stores to use, aa well as an attached plecenta to demonstarte motabolism, They can grow and develope, Respond to outside stimuli, and have the essential organs to reproduce(you could take an egg from a fetus and sperm from another fetus and create an embryo.
Outside of that definition I believe that an organism has life if it has the strive to fight and hold on to the energy which keeps it moving. A person in a vegitative state is dead by my standards, but a fetus is very much a life.