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It's normal for the ph to begin rising more quickly during blooming due to higher nutrient needs....mine really starts to go up about week 4 into blooming. I do check mine much more often towards the end.
Tom is right....now it's starting to get to the good stuff.
Good work ASD.:thumbsup:
I'm still debating on what type of clone propogator to go with I'm reading up on stuff now...
Eve has shown 2 more pistil sets but the growth is extremely slow so far it's possible I did some root damage when I pulled all the other ones out so I'll have to wait and see...
No real change on the other 2 just yet so I'm still hoping they're fem
I noticed that the ppm is climbing very slowly which sounds like they have just as much food as they want...
I can't remember how fast bud develops...is it fairly slow at the beginning and gains speed as you get further into flower?
I was also wonderin if there is any harm in taking a clone from a lower branch when it's in flower?
I'm definately excited for the next several weeks and once I get the same genetics it should be easy to just keep raising the light evenly and all that...
ASD don't ask me one single thing about clones and cloning......never even seen a clone in real life, lol. You should still raise your nutes slowly....don't stop.....this may be why the growing is slow. Obviously watch for burn though. After a few days your ppms don't accurately reflect WHICH nutes are still there and how much.....only a total number. Your plants will take up different nutes at different levels.
Gotcha WH I think you are right again about needing more food...that would explain a healthy look and feel with little growth...I'm testing a few things with ppm now and I've heard from a few people that use aero that have also noted that although the ppms start off really low they do increase pretty quick once the plant is established...I'm thinking this might be due to the roots hanging in air when they are tiny and it becomes more of a dwc once they're laying on the root chamber...
currently at 700ppm and tomororw if they still look fine I'll be going to 800ppm...Eve looks pretty much the same besides a couple more sites showing pistils but the other 2 are definately showing growth...<= this also leads me to believe they could use more food
I've decided to test a theory...I mixed up the next nute solution for the res today and I'll just dump it in tomorrow...I'm hoping that will reduce the ph fluctuation that seems to happen shortly after adding nutes I'll update if I can see anything significant
Even's clone is showing some signs of growth as well and should be transplanted from the organo plug soon. I want a system that will allow me to start from seed/clone and find out the sex too if possible...still thinking about making my own but the room has taken longer than expected to setup so that idea is backburnered atleast for now...
I did start preparing another batch of seeds (no idea of origin but my friend claimed they're awesome) they are currently sitting in a shotglass of water until I notice em crack...still debating how I want to start them once they're ready but I got time :p atleast 15 hours or so
I wanna stay away from dirt entirely if I can so that means I may have to get a few more systems prepared asap guess tomorrow is gonna be a busy one
I'll post some new pics soon probably when bud is big enough to photo
ASD You WILD ANIMAL, you! Look at you go! Addictive isnt it? ;)
hehe I know I should be in bed but I've been learning more about this stuff than I've wanted to learn about anything else in a long time...not just mj but botony in general it is definately addictive :jointsmile:
I'm 90% sure the extra nutes will speed up development I'm going to up the nute strength 100ppm per day till I see some burn just so I know the limit
Time to watch the sopranos and sleep...tomorrow's adventures are gonna rock
PS How are your babies doin by the way? I'd assume at this point they've really started to take shape...hope they're thriving like your last grow :cool:
Olive and Lola seem to be males...I'm not positive as there is only one ballsack but from the way the other males developed I can pretty much consider it a done deal...Olive has strengthened up a bit but still thin/weak and Lola was looking very nice with really tight spacing...if I woulda known only one female woulda made it I would have kept the best male which had the bushy top...oh well
Eve has shown a few more pistils and is crawling along as usual...the nutes are now at a little over 800 and if there is no nute burn I'll bring it to about 1000 tomorrow
Pic update soon
DO NOT TOSS THEM YET! I have learned the hard way never to call them male until I see at least 2 little male pods together.....later ones are usually female.....wait and make sure....can you photo?
I still can only see one ball growing on the 2 in question so I haven't chopped em yet...I'm hoping the boost of nutes may just burn Olive so I know where my limit is for size...we'll see though there was no sign of nute burn at all and I know my grow isn't perfect but it can't be that much worse than every other grow log with comparable lighting...
I will take several pics tonight with the good camera and hope they come out good enough to show detail...I'll put up 3 pictures the best sex site of each...I'm at 15 Day flower 5 from when Eve proved female...although the smaller 2 were pretty young so they may take longer to finish
Some of the seeds are cracking so I'll be taking care of those very soon as well...
Until later tonight all
PS 100ppm starting water...Nute distribution is 800ppm of 5-15-14 & 100ppm of 2-45-28 & 50ppm of BCuzz stimulator
I have an hp 945 it's a 5megapixel with 7 optical zoom...for some reason the screen is all scrambled and pictures/video come out scrambled too so it's not just the viewer
It's possible it's the batteries I'm using as it started when I put in the regular duracells but that was also the time I tried to take a picture with the light on and the lines were shooting across the screen if it's not the batteries I'll try to call hp I guess but at that point it's probably junk
I'll try to get some pics up soon...
PS It looks like the Balls are pretty rounded and plump on Lola but still only one per site and it even looks like towards the top node that there are a couple unexplained white/clearish hairs so I'll update hopefully later tonight with some pics...
PPS Oh and still no nute burn at 1050 so I'm gonna up to 1200 next
You may want to hold it there....that's a pretty good amount. I don't usually hit 1200 or so until about week 4 of flowering. Going even slower with these new seedlings....pickiest little things I have ever seen.
The little hairs sound hopeful.....I will check back. :thumbsup:
AS-Deprive, why not make ya a bubble cloner? All ya need is a Sterilite type container, the foam plugs, and a spade drill bit. Grab an air pump (10-15 bucks), and one or two of those flexible airstones and you are set. I built one for a friend about 3-4 months ago, 8 sites. I think the container I used for his was 22" or so long and maybe 12-14" wide and 4" or so high. Find the center of lid, mark holes symetrically from there and drill. Drill two holes for your air lines to go in lid, lay your airsontes under where your clone plugs will be, fill with pH'd water and voila. Take some medium grit sandpaper and scuff up the outside of the plastic including lid. Grab a can of black spray paint and put two coats on it. For 30 bucks you got a neat little cloner. Toss under a T5 4 bulb two foot light.
Dont forget you need some Clonex Gel and you MUST get some Wilt Pruf. Wilt Pruf is nectar from the clone gawds in my opinion.
This shit they charge 100-200 bucks for can usually be made for about 30. It might not look all fancy and purty, or have a fancy name, but if it does the same job, who cares?
b0nger
What's Sterlite?
'Hound, its the brand name of those plastic storage type containers. Rubbermaid makes also. And I am sure there are others. The Dollar Store I went to just happened to carry that brand. I think I paid a whole 5 bucks for it. I liked it because the top snaps to the bottom with the handle thing-mah-jigs.
b0nger
I've been thinking about making a cloner as well...Thanks for the info Bonger.:)
NP 'Hound. Any questions, hit me up. I build all kinds of neat stuff. Retired now, got all kinds of time and tools.
ASD, not trying to hijack yer thread, d00d. Just tossing out a simple and cheap solution for you or anyone else if they want to make a cloner.
b0nger:D
ASD - Good idea on feeding them more! But dont go too high...nute burn really blows! I hate fixing it - its such a fucking waste of water and time! Anyway - aero is notoriously hard for beginners - I am still trying to master simple ebb and flow! You are doing a good job - its all about learning. You will get better and better every crop. In a year youll have 4 -6 crops under your belt! It will be much easier every time. Peace out buddy.
You never spoke a truer word Tom. Best advice in this forum.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomasinho
Sometimes I think it comes down to what number you are most comfortable with. I have seen some people around who go up to 1800....that would simply cause me heart palpitations!
Bonger thanks for the offer....I will look for you when I start to build. ;) :D
'Hound? Did you read my post from when you were talkin blueblood genetics ? If ya did, and you keep growin the same strains those notes I talked about keepin will be priceless. You will dial in exactly what the PPM needs to be thru all phases of your grow and have it at your fingertips. Fuck guess work, make it a tried and true method.
I value mine so much I even burn to a CD weekly and keep at a remote location so I always have a back up copy.
Cant beat flippin to "Week 5" and seeing exactly what the plants wanted/needed for that week and how they reacted for each grow. Can see what yer temps were, RH, pH, PPM, wooohaa woohaa woohaaa.....you get my drift.
b0nger
No, but I will go check it out pronto! Thanks.....XXXX:jointsmile:
PH @ 5.9 PPM @ 1200
Thomas & WH you are right about nute burn when they were babies I nearly killed em...but I've seen almost 0 sex development at 16 Days in flower so I was getting anxious...it's been about 17 hours since I dumped in the nutes at this point so unless I see somethin bad I'll just chill here for now (I was wondering if temp affects ppm...like if a plant sweats more would ya need to have a lower ppm cause it wants to drink more water which takes in more nutes?)
bonger thanks for the info on the bubbler I gotta put somethin together really soon...feel free to post all ya want I'm not picky...I'm glad you mentioned the cd for comparison/guidance cause that is statistical data and the only thing better than data(experience) is formula...I feel the best way to grow is just find what makes the plant thrive...if you have the right instructions from the start you should get pretty close to the ideal result...
Have you come up with a structure for saving that data and used excel to create mean comparisons between the variables? For instance...if you were gonna grow a new strain you could weight the variables accordingly and get a list of estimated grow constraints for that strain...once you've harvested you'd have practical results to go over the original estimates and tighten up the +/- on your weighting system...lemme know if yer interested cause I'm starting to ramble again haha it would make a killer program though if you could type in a list of however many things and it spits out what you should do
I actually just saw Zandor post that 5.2-5.5 is the ideal ph for hydro...I created a thread with 4 questions I think related to that subject and hopefully it sparks some conversation if nothing else...I've read that ph needs change throughout and the ph vs nute uptake charts seem to support it but without experience I wanted to hear what Z has to say cause practice differs from theory(not that theory is wrong just that the people creating the theory usually don't think of everything) I've read 5.5 to 6.5 but the only thing I've had to guide that is if you want to absorb more N or P...I'd much rather know why you should be at a specific PH when you have a certain list of variables ie strain lighting ppm nodes etc but if he's right (regardless of why) I certainly wanna drop from the 5.9 I'm at now
As for the plants...Eve has a bunch of pistil sites now but they are all still very tiny, even the first site to show isn't any bigger I got a couple pics of her...Zola has a couple hairs that I can't explain as a leaf cause they look too white/clear I got a pic but it doesn't look the best...Olive is a bit taller/thicker but no sex development to speak of and no clear pics of her at all yet
I fixed my camera...I remembered it went screwy when it was watching the light refresh rate like those old monitors so I took it back when the light was on and aimed it right at the bulb...the screen went crazy for a second but then came back into focus musta been stuck trying to account for those refresh waves even though they weren't there anymore...it worked fine after that till the batts died...I was using reg duracell (junk) instead of my rechargable camera batts cause those were like 5 years old and finally went...I'll get new ones soon and see if I can post some better pics oh and the camera is 8 optical to correct my earlier post I've been taking pics on a super low resolution cause I've had to e-mail them but that should be fixed soon too
I'm not sure it matters but I picked up an air pump and some air stones for my res I was thinking about placing the stones near the pump intake so the solution is O2'd rather than pumping it in through the hydroton lemme know what ya think
PS 5 of the seeds have cracked so I made a little paper towel setup for em...they're between 2 damp papertowels on a plate that's sitting on a cookie sheet with a pyrex baking bowl over the plate to hold in moisture I put some water in the cookie sheet so I don't have to worry about it drying out for a longer period of time and just put the whole setup on a heating pad haha a picture would explain that way better I'm sure...getting tired
Tons more work to do but it's time for bed...lemme know if ya can tell Zola is a chick from the pic:cool:
Day 16 and very little turning? Start checking for light leaks. That's not your nutes talking.....that's in your lighting I would think.
I don't know about Z's ph level....mine will start to show problems at 5.2...bending etc... i will lower my level during flowering to about 5.4 at latewood's suggestion if I remember correctly....something to do with higher P uptake I think. I would LOVE to listen to Z's stuff but I have dial-up at 26k and just can't do it.....it would take me years to download.
All that talk about variables etc.... Holy Tamoly! I think I've gotten in with some scientists.....you guys are starting to scare me. :D
So I cannot tell from your photos which plant is which....pic in the middle is definitely female....don't see anything specific in the other two photos. The leaves look nice, green and healthy.....they are definitely getting plenty of nutes. If they are still growing but not really turning I think you have a lighting issue.
Somewhere around here Zandor posted a cool chart on uptake of different nutrients in hydro and what ph levels are ideal for each. I'll see if I can find it because he posted it for me before and I believe I saved it somewhere. :)
'Hound, here is the chart: http://boards.cannabis.com/attachmen...0&d=1121829312
ASD, no, I have not done any manipulation of the collected data as of yet. I really didnt have enough to complie anything I would have felt worthwhile to be honest. I'll have about 4 more grows by next winter so that may be something to tinker around with while I am stuck in the house with snow up to my ass.......LOL
When and if I do, I'll be sure to share.
b0nger
Bonger you are all over it! Thanks. :D
I changed the setup a little bit and got mylar over 2 walls in a corner....I'll get it sealed better tomorrow but I kinda ran outta time...light is goin off soon
7 seeds have now popped (2 new ones today) the 2 biggest ones are about 1/8 inch long I'll wait till they're about 1/4 to plant em I should have done this before putting em all in soil before...and with the reading I came across scuffing up the seed with some sand paper to help expedite the process...I'll try that with the seeds that haven't popped by monday
The clone was put near a window yesterday and actually showed some decent growth so I'm certain it's rooted I'll be planting that monday as well haven't decided how just yet but ehh I'll wing it
Currently the ph is at 6 so I'm gonna drop it to 5.7 and tomorrow to 5.4 especially with that chart info I really don't need them getting any taller just bud...
I'll try to get some better pics tomorrow as well...talk to everyone soon ;-)
ok the ph down did more than I thought 2 caps brought 12 gallons from 6 to 5.4 but atleast that was my target anyway so it's not the end of the world...the plants might not like the .6 swing but ehh they've delt with worse :D
After looking at the chart I'm preparing for burn cause I had upp'd the nutes at 5.8-6.0 but if I can eek by they should burst into bloom...I'll keep an eye on it several times tonight to be sure I avoid a catastrophy haha...
and WH don't worry bout the science talk...it would be nice if I could give a couple tips back that help your grow(s) since you've helped me so much already...anyway enjoy the weekend :cool:
PS I'm 99% sure that Zola is a chick so that makes 2...hopefully Olive will follow shortly
I just looked at the chart that bonger posted and it says P is available from 6.1 to 5.8 so I'm still kinda confused I thought P was the main nute for this stage of growth...if ya could help explain the basics bonger I'd appreciate it...I've been measuring in the water of my res to get the readings as a heads up.
I was thinking maybe ya need 5.2-5.5 like Zandor said in the res cause when you spray the solution in mix with air the ph goes up or somethin so at the roots if they aren't just hangin in the water it will even out to the right ph...I'm gonna keep looking for info but if anyone knows just offer it up
ok now I'm out for real...
Ok...you've gone off just a little too far in the other direction here......I can barely even remember yelling at you in one of the first posts about your shoddy ph practices way back...:D You are making yourself nuts. Your plants will do just fine at 5.8.....you will not fry them (especially at this stage)by adding nutes at 5.8 vs 5.4. Calm yourself.;) My first grow I had five plants and kept the ph approx 6-6.2 dont ask me why. I ended up with 8 1/2 oz from five plants. Next grow....3 plants....7 oz....ph at about 5.8-6.0. Third grow had the rootbound problems......7 oz per five plants. This time I dropped ph to 5.4. I will drop it again to that level in later flowering as well because I'm sure that was not my probem but I am not having visions of pounds because of it. Are you seeing where I am going with this?
Now....go toke a bowl and congratulate yourself....you have done a very good job and I have no doubt your plants will come through absolutely fine. :thumbsup: And forget about the ph for a day (can't believe I'm saying that.:eek:)
hehe thanks I get kinda wrapped up sometimes...
when you were talking about the light leaks were you refering to not enough light being sent to the plants like it was leaking out of the grow room or did you mean leaking into the res? the only place where light can enter the res is a 1 inch circular whole where the pump cable goes in I'm sure I could stuff that shut if it's an issue...I haven't noticed anything building up in the tank itself besides just a tiny (about the area of a quarter) around the pump hose that sends the water to the root chamber...this little bit seems to vanish if I stir up to take a ph/ppm reading so I wasn't all that worried about it before...
Tomorrow is gonna be fun cause I get to start work on the cloner ;-)
Actually what I mean by light leaks is lighting getting into the room during the dark period of 12/12. The room must be absolutely black....no outside light sources coming in....AT ALL! This is pretty critical during flowering as any differing patterns of lighting will completely confuse the plant. Remember my friend? Her first grow she "forgot" to turn the light off several times...a few times didn't cover it well so light got in......her plants reverted back to vegetative growth. Another cool side effect of light leaks.....major hermi-ness. Your growing area should be as lightproof as if you were developing photos......;)
One last tidbit....the photos from earlier today.....for day 16 I would be very happy with that amount of "femaleness" showing on the plant in the middle pic...don't know why it took me all day to put the photo together with the discussion....peanut-headedness I guess. ANYWAY it seems right on "turning time" to me so all that discussion about lights leaking is probably all moot anyway.
:D :thumbsup: :jointsmile:
Gotcha thanks for the quick responseI musta had a brain fart that I didn't take "light leaks" as the dark period...I realized it when I woke up this morning and decided to come post that I was being a dumb dumb before...
Well here's the basic setup of the room...it's completely closed so at night the only thing it gets is a tiny sliver of light through the vent window...and there were 2 orange lights, one on the surge protector and another orange one on the heat fan to regulate the temp in the room as it gets kinda cold at night...both of these lights are clearly visible if you look right at them so they could possibly be having some affect(but obviously not very bright...I'll get some spray can insulation to catch any tiny leaks into the room and use duck tape to cover the window and 2 orange lights...Once I'm done constructing the room it will be completely black I'm still using plastic as some of the walls etc actually there will be 2 or 3 sectioned rooms inside the big room I'm making now but I'm still debating on that so I'll keep ya guys posted
Except for those 3 spots I couldn't see the back of my hand at arms length in front of my face so hopefully it wasn't that bad
And I do remember the hermie situation...I think I read somewhere that forcing a hermied female to pollinate the other females creates feminized seeds...I think I'll probably use that technique at some point
Yer probably right about the "femaleness"...I didn't think of this before but the first pistil had only shown 11 days prior to that pic...that combined with all the other stresses might cause a low yield anyway...since I've only done 2 soil grows before this and never any experience with water I don't have a good way to estimate.
I'll just try to be patient, maybe my mouth is just watering for some cause I've been sober for so long
PS I've been wonderin how are your babies comin along? Have you been able to up there nutes yet?
They seem to be doing well at this point.....they've been in hydro since 3/10 and I'm just now getting them to 400ppm. I've already topped them once. Will post a pic when they grow back in a litte. :)
I can't wait to see them hound I'm glad they are doin well...just outta curiosity how many times to you top em? cause if I remember right you had bushes the last time ;-)
I plugged up the few light leaks I knew of and ended up checking once the light turned off to make sure...I found that the space heater that goes on once the light is off seems to glow...the coils heat up to produce heat but have somewhat significant lighting as a side effect so I just removed the space heater for now...I don't think the room will get under 60 anymore and hopefully the plants won't mind growin at 68-70 during the day
The roots of the cracked seeds grew incredibly last night and 2 are almost 1" long so I'll have to be gentle when planting them
Eve has shown a bit more development but doesn't have nearly the speed of Zola...lotsa hairs poking out now even a bit out the top of each shoot I'm 100% on her now and if she continues at this rate I'll be using her clones only as the mother if the bud is comparable to Eve anyway but I have a long way off before worrying about that
Now I just have to prepare myself for Monday heh
They all look female to me but for real you gotta get it dark as hell in there at night. ANd try to not let the temps fluctuate more than 10-20 degrees. The plant is hearty and delicate at the same time. It can be hard to get all the temps right and the lights dark and the nutes in the right spot but you gotta do all that shit to get the dope. But the dope is dope as hell. The plants will survive the mistakes we make - gracia de deus.
They do survive indeed...thank god for the way I treat them. Tom is right (again!..he is on it!!!:))about the darkness....that may very well be why the going is slow....not dark enough. Like developing a photo.....
I usually top my plants twice to end up with 4 main colas....last time I think I topped everything 3 or 4 times which was a huge part of my problem. Yes they grow back but with the limited room for roots and leaves etc it was not a good thing to do. This time I will top my usual amount which seems to work the best for me with spacing, lighting etc...
Since I see the link here I'm off to check out Tom's grow.....more later.....
Dark as in dark, as in pitch black dark, as in so dark if you spin around 3 times real fast you have no idea where the door is....LOL
I have seen it said that a "little light" doesnt hurt because outside there is the moon and stars, and streetlights, and what the hell ever. I say bullshit. Make it pitch black, period!
Dial in ventilation and make the room light tight, and then worry about growing. More air in than you take out. Dats da ticket. Yer plants will luv ya fer it.
b0nger
True Bonger, too true. I had some outdoor stuff that hermied due to a (not very much) amount of light coming through a kitchen window at night.....turned out to be plenty to screw up the plant. Had two nice flowering haze plants about 4 feet tall that hermied on me. These days I use the DM Feminiser (now called Reverse) and not a hermie since those days but I'm also very careful about my lighting. It's amazing to me how much stuff has been invented for growing since my younger days (the ice age :D )
Ps I ended up hanging some very dark materialed curtains in a corner of my spare bedroom to lightproof the growing section. Works great for me and very easy to pull back the curtains daily to light up the room. Also helps with the ventilation as the air flow is slowed but not restricted.
Hell, I invented dirt, and remember when rocks were still soft......LOL I am an oldtimer myself. Make it pitch black, and save yer money on that Reverse stuff.
Old lady was overly impressed when she came home and I had plywood boxes built over the windows. She thought that was real special. Was almost as good as the day I took the wall to wall carpet up in my grow room. I think the only reason she puts up with it is becuse from 6 at night til 11-12 she never sees me. I have a small flat screen, laptop, and a little desk with a comfy office chair in the corner with a partition up so the HPS's dont blind me. Even put a laundry sink with R.O./regular water in grow room. Makes nute changes a breeze now. Existing plumbing was already in the wall, just had to tap into it. Very simple. Now Zandor says I need a cement mixer. Shit, I am not sure how I am going to convince her its a must have device, but I am thinking:D :D
Keep em growin,
b0nger