Meet Your Meat

I'm not humanizing anything, animals are very much like us, that is a fact. Whether they can feel emotional pain or not, (and i suspect they do to some degree) if somebody starts tearing them to pieces while they are still alive, i guarantee they are suffering and not just in a emotional way. You say animals serve a purpose and from what i gather, apperently you think that purpose is to be food and/or slaves. Does that include us? If some being from outer space decided that it was far more advanced than you and just for the sake of debate, lets say you even agree that it is more advanced than you, does that give it the right to kill and eat you and yours? After all, you would be serving a purpose.



Yes I believe that living off the suffering of other sentient beings is wrong if it's not required, that's one of my core beliefs. Therefore i recognize that I am a sinner and dont try to tell me otherwise. I dont base my beliefs on fairy tales or whims, i base them on science, experience, and observation. I know other animals and people are much alike, and based on that knowledge, I know that there is a good chance that humans and other animals feel many of the same things. What do you base your beliefs on? You believe it's not wrong to kill animals and eat them even if we dont need to eat them? Why? Why is it not wrong? I've given a few reasons why i believe what i believe, but you have not given a reason for believing what you believe.

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Well, at least you live in a country where you can make a choice to not eat meat based on moral objection.

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If i lived where it wasn't a choice, I wouldn't object to eating meat, I might see it as an unfortunate necessity but i wouldn't see it as totally wrong. If i didn't eat, i would die.

Im not sure if your aware of this but there's something called the food chain.

We're at the top of it...

wait for it...

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PWN3D

By the way, lets just get one obvious emotion out of the way. I think even you would agree that fear is a fairly universal animal emotion.

Fear is universal, i recognise that. Although i do object to the way some vegetarians aggressively advertise there own vegan ways while trying to make people who take part in what comes naturally (eating what you like) feel guilty.

It is human nature to kill animals for food and pick vegetables. Early in our evolution, we couldn't speak or didn't have meanings, but we killed animals for food. There was no such thing as a housecat.

If we hunted instinctively, there's a pretty good chance it's God intention.

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Whether they can feel emotional pain or not, (and i suspect they do to some degree) if somebody starts tearing them to pieces while they are still alive, i guarantee they are suffering and not just in a emotional way.

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Right. You can guarantee they are in pain in a physical way...
What you cannot guarantee is if its in an emotional way.

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You say animals serve a purpose and from what i gather, apperently you think that purpose is to be food and/or slaves. Does that include us? If some being from outer space decided that it was far more advanced than you and just for the sake of debate, lets say you even agree that it is more advanced than you, does that give it the right to kill and eat you and yours? After all, you would be serving a purpose.

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Well, if it served his people to do that, then yeah, it probably does give him right. Will I like it? No. Did I serve a purpose? Yes.

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Yes I believe that living off the suffering of other sentient beings is wrong if it's not required, that's one of my core beliefs. Therefore i recognize that I am a sinner and dont try to tell me otherwise. I dont base my beliefs on fairy tales or whims, i base them on science, experience, and observation. I know other animals and people are much alike, and based on that knowledge, I know that there is a good chance that humans and other animals feel many of the same things.

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So now you feel you have a right to impose your beliefs on me and judge me, if I dont embrace them as you do, all because you have your "feeling" about animals and their "feelings" which you created in your own head? So now I must change my whole way of thinking and my diet all because you "feel" that we are the same as animals and that eating animals is immoral? Forget history, forget instinct, forget everything I know...all because of your feeling?

Uh, no.

beachguy, is it also human nature to go to the movies, smoke Cannabis or work in an office 9-5?

I've smoked weed all day, at work, and took a girl out to the movies at night, then fell asleep.

meat is the best, you can't get me off meat

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So now you feel you have a right to impose your beliefs on me and judge me, if I dont embrace them as you do, all because you have your "feeling" about animals and their "feelings" which you created in your own head? So now I must change my whole way of thinking and my diet all because you "feel" that we are the same as animals and that eating animals is immoral? Forget history, forget instinct, forget everything I know...all because of your feeling?

Uh, no.

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No I'm not saying that at all. I dont presume to judge others, I judge only myself. By the way, I have more than gut feelings, if you really want me to be specific. There is quite a lot of evidence that supports my beliefs, no i can't prove them without a doubt, but its certainly not just a "feeling" i have.

Now would you kindly answer my question? What do you base your beliefs on? Or is just your "instinct".

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Originally Posted by Edgar

Now would you kindly answer my question? What do you base your beliefs on? Or is just your "instinct".

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I could ask you the same question. You have your "feelings" and I have mine. :D

good job ghost i had a chicken sandwich today and almost puked, b/c i thought of the video

I had a steak, thought of the video for a minute, then continued to eat that $15 sun of a bitch and it was god damned tasty.

I had a sub with cheese.

And turkey. And salomi, And Balogna. And Ham. And Mustard (French's)

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I could ask you the same question. You have your "feelings" and I have mine.

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Ah, but i have more than just feelings.

Animals arn't aliens or robots, I dont see what reason you have to assume they wouldn't have emotions. It's their

very similarity to us that makes animals so valuable in medical research. Every animal we've tested so far has

large portions of it's dna that are identical to our own DNA. We test our drugs on them first. And speaking of

drugs, drugs have an effect on animals that is very much like their effects on us. They make them feel good and

because many pathways in animal brains have synonymous function to pathways in human brains, there is no reason to

assume that they dont feel emotions in a similar way to how we feel emotions. For example, Cocaine is a stimulant

and it causes dopamine reuptake inhibition in rats, humans, apes, and just about any other animal. By increasing

dopamine in the synaptic cleft between neurons, more is absorbed at once, resulting in strong stimulation of the

reward areas of the brain. That happens to all the animals i mentioned, when they are given cocaine. For most drugs

the tactile component is only a small part of it's charm, so what would keep the animals coming back for more unto

death? Emotional bliss, that's what. I think you assume that emotions are more complex than they really are. Sure

humans and animals arive at various emotions for different reasons, but that's no reason to devalue animal

emotions. Animals need emotions to survive, just like we needed and still need them to some degree. Emotions, give

us our drive, they drive us away from danger. Emotions drive us to seek food shelter and companionship. This

behavior is demonstrated by pretty much all animals, it's certainly not just a human trait, some animals will even

find companionship in animals of a different species, take Koko (the gorilla) and her kittens for example. So if

you deprive an animal of it's emotional needs or its other needs, it's a pretty sure bet that it is suffering.

That has been demonstrated repeatedly. Chimps and other animals that live in cages their whole life are depressed,

withdrawn and sometimes crazy, this is evidenced by the fact that they no longer show interest in many normal

activities and by the fact that they show many other abnormal behaviors. (

http://www.brown.edu/Research/Primate/lpn30-2.html http://www.psychology4all.com/enviro...psychology.htm

http://www.awionline.org/Lab_animals/biblio/variab.html ) Chickens that are stressed are shown to have decreased

function of their immune system. ( http://www.upc-online.org/980616salm..._comments.html ) It's actually rather

common knowledge that an animal's drive can diminished by caging them in a non stimulating environment. I can't

prove without a doubt that they have emotions, only because i can't prove without a doubt that any1 but myself has

emotions, (and i can only prove that to myself) that includes people. I can never know what others are feeling, no

one can, but that isn't much of a reason to assume they don't feel emotions. Emotions can be directly stimulated

with intra-cranial self-stimulation in rat brains. This is confirmed by a study done in the 50's by a man named

James Olds. Here is link that details his studies: http://www.nap.edu/books/0309066441/html/251.html - and if you

keep paging through it, it becomes quite clear than animals can experience emotions, or just as clear as any test

could be. Here are a couple more links which clearly show an animals emotional drive.

http://www.hedweb.com/wirehead/hypermotivation.html http://www.hedweb.com/wirehead/index.html

Here are some links which highlight some similarities between human brains and chimp brains: http://brainmuseum.org/specimens/pri...imp/index.html
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=6691


Aside from all that research, I think it's pretty clear that most if not all animals feel fear.

Oh I've got more, but i think that's enough for now...

So, do you believe all animals experience emotion then? What about insects? Bacteria, single-cell organisms? But not plants...right?

Are you for freeing all living creatures of harm done to them because of humans, or just the cute, people-like creatures? Where is the line drawn? And what reasons do you have for drawing the line where you've drawn the line, and why would you expect anyone to follow your arbitrary guideline of which creatures have emotion and are worth fighting for, and which are not?

I dont believe animals are smart enough to have emotion. Maybe elephants and chimps...maybe... You dont really see us eating the more intelligent animals anyway... And if you say chickens are intelligent, I swear to god... ;)

I think you need a base intelligence in order to have emotions, or to be affected by them the way that we are. Babies aren't emotional, they become emotional beings later, when their brain has developed enough.

Look, its unfortunate for chickens and cows and lamb and pig that they are as tasty as they are. Maybe these animals should put their distraught emotion (over the fact that their whole purpose is to become my lunch) to good use and work harder to get their way up the food chain. Until that time comes, they will continue to be part of my diet.

And thanks for taking the time to site links, many people dont take the time to research what they're fighting for, its refreshing to see you do, even if I dont agree with you, I respect your position more. :)

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I dont believe animals are smart enough to have emotion.

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Why?

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So, do you believe all animals experience emotion then? What about insects? Bacteria, single-cell organisms? But not plants...right?

Are you for freeing all living creatures of harm done to them because of humans, or just the cute, people-like creatures? Where is the line drawn? And what reasons do you have for drawing the line where you've drawn the line, and why would you expect anyone to follow your arbitrary guideline of which creatures have emotion and are worth fighting for, and which are not?

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I'm not trying to enforce anything, when are you gonna get that? I'm making moral decisions for myself and myself alone. I've only been explaining why i believe what i believe, now, I ask again, why do you believe what you believe?

I draw the line as best i can with the information that is currently available to me, that's really all any1 can do. Insects feel something, but I'd be willing to bet that what they feel is far more primitive than anything the more advanced animals feel. Plants, well i have no idea about what if anything plants could feel and as for single-celled organisms, they can react, but they can never react with purpose in mind (because they dont have a mind) and they can't feel, because they dont have a nervous system. And like i said b4, if i need to eat life forms to survive, well, that is an unfortunate necessity, but it is a necessity. Besides I already told you that my goal was to reduce suffering and i have already accomplished that goal and will continue to accomplish that goal in the future.

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Maybe these animals should put their distraught emotion (over the fact that their whole purpose is to become my lunch) to good use and work harder to get their way up the food chain. Until that time comes, they will continue to be part of my diet.

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Well that's a funny thing for you to say... according to your logic, and with this part i agree, they dont know why they are in that situation and they certainly don't know how to work towards getting out of that situation, but i realize that you were prolly saying that more in jest than anything.

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I think you need a base intelligence in order to have emotions, or to be affected by them the way that we are. Babies aren't emotional, they become emotional beings later, when their brain has developed enough.

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They certainly cry a lot for beings that arn't emotional. And what of my earlier example? What about the severely retarded people that don't develop into fully functional human beings? Would it be ok, in your view, to eat them?

Emotion is seperate from higher concious thought. They occur in different parts of the brain.

Your neocortex is responsible for intellectual thought. "lower" animals do not have such a developed neocortex as we do. Thats why they cant drive cars, do complicated math (animals can do some math) or read novels.

Deeper down is the part of the brain that processes such things as emotion. We share this with all mammals. Reptiles and birds have not developed this too much. (though they still understand suffering as well as you)
Finally we reach the reptilian core. This part of the brain controls basic instinct. Sex and aggresion. We share this reptilian core with birds.

Do some research. Read a fucking book. Think about what youre doing. You will pay for your actions later on. Once your clogged arteries and cancerous insides collapse and your soul is free..imagine the guilt you will live with for all eternity due to your laziness and ignorance.. :p

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Originally Posted by death of sXe

Emotion is seperate from higher concious thought. They occur in different parts of the brain.

Your neocortex is responsible for intellectual thought. "lower" animals do not have such a developed neocortex as we do. Thats why they cant drive cars, do complicated math (animals can do some math) or read novels.

Deeper down is the part of the brain that processes such things as emotion. We share this with all mammals. Reptiles and birds have not developed this too much. (though they still understand suffering as well as you)
Finally we reach the reptilian core. This part of the brain controls basic instinct. Sex and aggresion. We share this reptilian core with birds.

Do some research. Read a fucking book. Think about what youre doing. You will pay for your actions later on. Once your clogged arteries and cancerous insides collapse and your soul is free..imagine the guilt you will live with for all eternity due to your laziness and ignorance.. :p

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YEAH!!! meat is murder, folks

ive always wanted to stop eating meat.i have the softest spot in me heart for animals. im a guy and even still, watching anything or anyone abuse or treat animals wrongly just makes me cry for them and go crazy. i bitched at my mom for hours because she found a bunny in her garden yesterday and she was trying to put it in a box. she grabbed it by the ears and picked it up and the bunny started yelling and crying and i was there to see and hear it all. she said youre supposed to do that.

i hate everyone who treats animals wrongly.

but heres the problem, ive seen movies of cows, pigs, (you name it) being slaughtered and wanted to be a vegetarian sooo bad. but when i tell my mom she says that im really stupid. she tells me to be a man and let it be. our family serves meat everyday. and if i refused to eat then they will just let me starve because they know i will come out and eat sooner or later. so i just have to eat meat (i have no money whatsoever to buy my own food).

one thing that i do is when i go somewhere (a farm) where i can see or hear a duck or chicken get killed to be eaten, i dont eat it. i dont talk to anyone there for the rest of the week. i would starve myself if i had seen it. it just makes me feel soo bad.

dogs and puppies have the biggest soft spot in my heart. i would do anything for my dog. if need be, i would kill for my dog, if someone was harming her. shes a little shihtzu/maltese puppy. i have fought for someones puppy (that i didnt even know). i almost took a bat to an old man's head because he was about the throw a rope around a little dog's neck and drag it behind his truck.

i hate those ppl soo bad.

Trust me, your parents won't starve you. You may have to be a bit hungry for a couple of days because you'ree not eating full meals.... but eventually they WILL get the message. :) But I agree that it's much easier to change your diet when you're providing it yourself.

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Originally Posted by andy704

ive always wanted to stop eating meat.i have the softest spot in me heart for animals. im a guy and even still, watching anything or anyone abuse or treat animals wrongly just makes me cry for them and go crazy. i bitched at my mom for hours because she found a bunny in her garden yesterday and she was trying to put it in a box. she grabbed it by the ears and picked it up and the bunny started yelling and crying and i was there to see and hear it all. she said youre supposed to do that.

i hate everyone who treats animals wrongly.

but heres the problem, ive seen movies of cows, pigs, (you name it) being slaughtered and wanted to be a vegetarian sooo bad. but when i tell my mom she says that im really stupid. she tells me to be a man and let it be. our family serves meat everyday. and if i refused to eat then they will just let me starve because they know i will come out and eat sooner or later. so i just have to eat meat (i have no money whatsoever to buy my own food).

one thing that i do is when i go somewhere (a farm) where i can see or hear a duck or chicken get killed to be eaten, i dont eat it. i dont talk to anyone there for the rest of the week. i would starve myself if i had seen it. it just makes me feel soo bad.

dogs and puppies have the biggest soft spot in my heart. i would do anything for my dog. if need be, i would kill for my dog, if someone was harming her. shes a little shihtzu/maltese puppy. i have fought for someones puppy (that i didnt even know). i almost took a bat to an old man's head because he was about the throw a rope around a little dog's neck and drag it behind his truck.

i hate those ppl soo bad.

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I totally understand, my soft spot for animals made me go veggie. It took me too long:( But I made it! heehee. I'm sure it's really really hard to deal with parents who have opposing views:( I definitely encourage you in rebelling against mainstream meat loving republican crap! Maybe get your mom to watch the meet your meat video. It's unusual for women especially to be indifferent to animals:( Unfortunately adults rarely change:( But don't give up! You're on the right track! People need to be more caring towards animals. Infinitely more caring. Good for you for helping the puppy!!! Anyways, stick to your beliefs and you'll definitely make a difference:)

i really really want to more than anything, you know. i have shown her one of those videos already, along with a PETA video of a little monkey getting beat and stuffed into a small tube and abused and one of a golden retreiver that get beat in the face with a skateboard (it was all over the internet) and after she watched them the only thing i got from her was "so??"

she said that it doesnt matter if i turn vegetarian becuase its not like theyll stop killing the farm animals. they will still kill them no matter what i do. and she said its not like im killing them, im just eating the meat of the animals that have been killed and processed by someone else. then she said stop acting stupid and trying to be like other people. i really wanted to punch her face in. and yesterday when she made that little bunny cry, i yelled at her and was getting ready to shove her into the pavement but i held back. i really want to show her how badly i feel for these animals but she just thinks im going through a pahse. she thinks that since im a boy i will get older and turn into a man and not be so soft for animals. tells me that i act like a grl. if there was a day when one of my family members hurt a puppy that belonged to be, i wouldnt hesitate to beat them sp hard. and im not trying to talk tough.

i hate myself for not being able to hold up with myself and stay a vegetarian. having to go through all the verbal torture and having words thrown at you for trying to stay away from meat. i wish i could make a difference in my life.

(i dont really have a problem with eating seafood... i guess i just feel this way for mammals.)

also ghost, she will probably starve me and if she sees that its really affecting me then she would do whatever she can to force me to eat

"she said that it doesnt matter if i turn vegetarian becuase its not like theyll stop killing the farm animals. they will still kill them no matter what i do."

I've had that line used on me so many times. I think even the people who use it know that it's completely illogical, but so are most of their arguments...

The fact of the matter is that the more people that buy meat the more meat will be killed. If one person stops eating meat then maybe they won't kill any less animals, but for every one person thinking about giving up meat i'm sure there are thousands of people in the same situation. If you all stopped eating meat at the same time then yes, it wpould make a huge difference. Think about it; most vegetarians have been in your situation at some point... and we all made the step and gave it up. With so many vegetarians not eating meat it's a fact that the meat industry isn't killing as much meat as it would be if EVERYONE ate meat. :)

so can you guys help me here. ive been eating meat (even though i dont want to, but its just my diet now) everyday and im not sure if ill be affected if i stop. most of the times i dont really think about when im eating when i eat meat but thats basically all i eat. tacos, burgers, steaks, etc.
i dont really know what il eat otherwise. i dont really eat salads (most of the times im too lazy to make it.. loo long) i just dont know how im going to go about it and completely change my diet

Try this;

http://www.goveg.com/order.asp :)

If you don't want to have it sent to your house then click download it. :)

Good luck!

meat is great. i love a nice big, juicy, bloody ass steak on my plate when supper time comes around. i'll eat meat for the rest of my life. those videos don't bother me at all. i help hack deer in to pieces every year to cook up and eat. i deal with the organs and blood, etc, etc... i don't know what's wrong with everyone who says that eating meat is so evil or wrong. it's a fucking joke to me. i mean, to each his own, but HEY, don't try and tell me i can't eat the stuff, and don't bitch and whine at me about some pig that got his skull caved in so i could have pork chops. i don't care. it's an animal, and that's what they are here for. anyhow, nice video... no sickness here.

^^ disgusting. ever heard of karma? ;)

karma, shmarma... who's got the A-1 ?

Smother the truth in denial. Enjoy it. :(

denial of what? i LOVE meat. and just because you don't like the fact that i LOVE meat, i'm going to smash an innocent kittens head in with a sledgehammer. then, i'll string out his organs and wear them as a nice scarf. :)

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Originally Posted by w4terb0ng

meat is great. i love a nice big, juicy, bloody ass steak on my plate when supper time comes around. i'll eat meat for the rest of my life. those videos don't bother me at all. i help hack deer in to pieces every year to cook up and eat. i deal with the organs and blood, etc, etc... i don't know what's wrong with everyone who says that eating meat is so evil or wrong. it's a fucking joke to me. i mean, to each his own, but HEY, don't try and tell me i can't eat the stuff, and don't bitch and whine at me about some pig that got his skull caved in so i could have pork chops. i don't care. it's an animal, and that's what they are here for. anyhow, nice video... no sickness here.

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Originally Posted by w4terb0ng

denial of what? i LOVE meat. and just because you don't like the fact that i LOVE meat, i'm going to smash an innocent kittens head in with a sledgehammer. then, i'll string out his organs and wear them as a nice scarf. :)

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Wow. You seem like a really horrible person.

For the first time since I joined here i'm gonna put someone on my ignore list...

damn. excuse me for having my own opinion.
PETA and other people of that sort can post, preach, etc anywhere and to anybody that they please, but i can't have an individual opinion?
you've wasted your breath if the only thing you can say is that i am a horrible person because i like to eat meat, and don't feel sorry for killing an animal if it is for the sole purpose of feeding myself and others. ignore me if you want, Hitler... but i will not stand by and have someone tell me that what i should or shouldn't be doing, what i should be thinking, and how i should be leading MY life. Jesus Christ, what is so wrong with me?

This message is hidden because w4terb0ng is on your ignore list.

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Originally Posted by death of sXe

This message is hidden because w4terb0ng is on your ignore list.

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+lol+ Funny, I get the same message too.. :p

ummm pork and chicken

Melton went to bed, he has school tomorrow.

i watched it but i will still glady enjoy it when i eat meat
why dont u got tell a lion or tiger to become a veggie
or is eating an animal while it is alive and in serious agony not cruel

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Originally Posted by death of sXe

Smother the truth in denial. Enjoy it. :(

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A side of Superiority quenches that appetite of your better than any slab of meat I see.

If I couldn't eat meat I'm sure I'd be as obnoxious as you are, and justify myself to my fellow man by judgeing and condemning him, as that would be me some shred of happiness as I see it brings you.

They do say you have to replace one bad habit with another. :D

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Originally Posted by w4terb0ng

karma, shmarma... who's got the A-1 ?

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And THAT made me LMFAO!

Such sensitive Suzies. "ignore list", egad, fucking lame. *sigh* Vegetarians... :rolleyes: