What is an even bigger joke is evolutionists using evolution to try and disprove religions, wow....
You say religion is flawed but it is just as flawed as your evolutional theories...
Go figure:p
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What is an even bigger joke is evolutionists using evolution to try and disprove religions, wow....
You say religion is flawed but it is just as flawed as your evolutional theories...
Go figure:p
I wish evolution and science could explain hallucinogens to me also!
specifically how multiple people could have the same images from the substances
ALIENS, TAKE ME NOW.....
This is the only place ive ever been able to find information about how science explains hallucinogens but i dont nessicarily like the website it comes from....
http://deoxy.org/psyguide.htm#5
"There is no question a certain degree of merit to this hypothesis. However, one could ask as well: are there perhaps latent functions in the brain that are turned on by hallucinogens? This point of view has not been well addressed by scientific research for the simple fact that, how can you look at something if you don't know it exists? If there are functions turned on by hallucinogenic drugs in the brain that do not normally operate in our usual states of consciousness, then scientists have nothing to compare these states to, and thus are affected by a blind spot. Still, though this question of turning on latent functions is not easily addressed in terms of scientific thinking, we shall see below that occult views provide us a basis to reasonably address this question.
In spite of any hypothesis scientists may provide as to the operation of hallucinogens in the nervous system, we must put this discussion in its proper perspective. Whatever scientists may profess to know about the activity of hallucinogenic drugs is colored strongly by the fact that the current scientific understanding of how the brain and nerve cells work is highly incomplete.
And this point leads us back to philosophy. Because, on one hand, scientists like to believe that the brain creates consciousness, but on the other hand, scientist have only a partial and incomplete understanding of how the brain works. This seems like putting the cart before the horse to me. It is possible that science will come to understand in very full detail how the operation of the brain leads to memory formation and other psychological phenomena. But the point is, they only have a partial understanding at this point. If you took a brain scientist (a neurologist, or neurochemist, or whatever) and sat them down and asked; "How does the brain create consciousness?" They'll either B.S. you with a bunch of details and never directly answer your question, or they will out right honestly admit that this question simply cannot be answered with current knowledge (if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit!). So, the bottom line is, that science's contention that the brain creates consciousness is more belief and dogma than it is cold, hard, provable fact."
If you look into someones eyes ur looking at the key to the unvirse
Id agree with you maybe if you elaborated on that instead of making it sound like something you heard on TV
I am no more an "evolutionist" than I am a "gravitationist" or a "heliocentrist". I am just recognizing the facts discovered by modern science. Just because you have not observed the evidence and scrutinized it with proper logic does not mean that the overwhelming body of evidence isn't there. There is no doubt that evolution happened. Anybody who's ever seriously studied the fossil record and the distribution of fossils on this planet, or the molecular structures of various species of animals, could possibly deny this fact. It's not immediately obvious—like Einstein's theories you have to do a little studying to find out how evolution works and why alternative explanations were abandoned.Quote:
Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
You say that the processes behind life on this planet are unexplainable. Why do you start out with this assumption? We actually do have a lot of clues that show how life developed over billions of years, and there is information we can draw from this. Some things about life can be known, and one thing that we do know is that animals change over time.
Why should any animal stay the same? Does anything in this universe stay the same? No, everything is transient, everything changes. Nothing is permanent. That includes the genetic code of living organisms. Genetic changes manifest themselves as physical changes in the body of the organism. Sometimes those changes increase the chances of survival of that organism, and the offspring of that organism will have a greater chance of survival. Over long periods of time these greater chances will add up and that genetic change will spread to the whole species. Whether or not a change is beneficial is dependent on the organism's environment.
If one group of organisms is geographically separated from another, and they are unable to interbreed, they will be in different environments and will go on separate paths of genetic change. Over time, these changes add up to the point that the two groups can no longer interbreed and there are two species.
The origins of modern life forms are knowable, at least to an extent, because we have real concrete evidence to analyze. If you want to convince me that this analysis is incorrect, you're going to have to present to me a better alternative analysis of the fossil record and the body of molecular genetic evidence. Just saying "God did it" or "the aliens did it" explains nothing, especially when you don't have any real concrete evidence to back up the claim, and you have no explanation for where that form of intelligent life came from.
Do you have any idea how many complex chemical reactions are involved in the brain? Of course modern science hasn't understood everything about how the brain works and how consciousness works. It's really fucking complicated! I'd like to see you give it a try! Just because we don't know exactly how it works doesn't mean that it's not just happening according to the laws of physics. And it doesn't mean that we won't have a more complete answer someday in the future. But if we ever do get a more complete answer, it will definitely be through science and not religion or superstition or mythology.Quote:
Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
What's with the science-bashing? Sure, some things are unknowable to people today, but science is the only reliable method of knowing the universe that we have. There just isn't any better method. We have to be able to say "we don't know" when we don't know, but we should never give up the pursuit of knowledge. We can't start out by saying "this is inherently unknowable, and it's not worth our time trying to understand".
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Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
I didnt see it on tv it came from my head. Ive been doing allot of thinking latley about how our brain works and the universe ETC.... Its just something i cant explain. I have it all in my head but i just cant explain it specially trying to type it.
Just think of it this way there is so much other things that are happening all around us. We cannot see this because our state of mind wont allow it and we cannot control it. But if we could some how be able to get in touch with that part of our brain then we could live life sooo much differently and see half-way of the big picture. Nothing was made by a god. Ya we could have been made by aleins but theres more to that then what took place for them to be created. Things that make you hallucinate were put here for a reason, You probly dont see what im trying to explain at all but what ever thats my opinion.
Evolution does not require a single missing link, but a innumerable amount. We should be surrounded by a zoo of transitional forms that cannt be put into a category as one particular certain life form. But we don't see this unless i have overlooked some major discovery. There are different kinds of dogs, but all are claerly dogs. The fossils show different sizes of horses, but all are clearly horses. None are on the verge of being some other life form. The fossil record shows complex fossilized life suddenly appearing, and there are major gaps between the fossilized "kinds." If you read about Darwin you will find that he actually acknowledged that if his theory WERE true, it would require millions of transitional forms. He believed they would be found in fossil records. They haven't been..........
I didnt specifically say god or aliens did it was just explaining my thoughts on the flaws of science, evolution and their views on the origin of life. They leave out the major corner stone of their whole theory and then build the whole theory without this corner stone and then expect you to believe it. Like i said i do not deny evolution i just notice the holes in it. Life comes from life, plain and simple!
Oneironaut and c4nn4bliss are blowing my mind. You guys are brilliant. I myself am a Catholic. I don't really believe in anything but I stick to things for tradition. Plus it's a "good" code to help raise children (brainwash them to be good and fit in). I'm siding with c4nn4bliss becasue figuring out the origin of man and the birth of consciousness requires an open mind. Scientific method is great in the short run but it falls apart and stifles new lines of thought.
Has anyone seen "What the Bleep Do We Know?". Great movie about quantum mechanics and the clash between it and general relativity. I think (hope) we are about to break the walls down and expand into higher dimensions. While we run around within 2 dimensions (yes we're 3D I know, but it takes so much energy to move around in the z plane.) There's got to be more.
Thanks for everyone's insight. Potheads are the best!
Everyone should have something they are a nerd about:p
What? How could species possibly exist like that? There needs to be some definite group whose members are all capable of interbreeding with each other. That's what a species is. If there is any outlying member incapable of interbreeding with such a group (i.e. it doesn't belong to any species) it dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
Let me demonstrate evolution with an example from linguistics. Linguistic evolution, like biological evolution, has scientifically proven by examining the historical evidence. The two processes also work in very similar ways, but linguistic evolution is of course much faster.
We have a continuous literary record in Europe stretching all the way back to ancient Greece. From this literary record we can see that the languages we call Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian and Romanian are all just modern forms of Latin. When the Roman Empire stretched across the Mediterranean, there was a lot of travel between areas of the empire and because of this there was a high degree of communication between distant peoples. This resulted in a very uniform language that could be understood everywhere.
After the Empire collapsed, the various groups did not have the means to travel everywhere. Hardly anyone ever went a few miles away from home. The different groups were geographically separated from each other and were unable to communicate with each other.
We all know that no child speaks exactly the same language as their parents. Every new generation invents new words and new ways of speaking. They are speaking the same basic language as the parents but with slight modifications. Over time these changes add up. In Europe, the various local dialects of Latin underwent separate courses of change and gradually the people became less and less able to understand each other. After a few centuries the different dialects had diverged to the point that they were separate languages. If you look over the documents of European history, you can see for yourself how all this happened.
And yet, we do not see a zoo of transitional languages, because you have to make yourself understood to a certain group speaking a certain language or else you are understood by nobody.
The fossil record is very incomplete because the vast majority of organisms simply don't fossilize. It is a very very rare occurrence. When we see forms "suddenly appearing", it's because some organism that had been quietly evolving with no trace suddenly found favorable conditions to thrive. Why should that not happen from time to time?
Evolution is the best explanation we have. Look at the actual fossil evidence for yourself. Read up on molecular biology. Please. If you do not, you will not understand it the way you want to understand it. And if you can't come up with an better alternative theory you are not going to convince me that this one is wrong. What other process could possibly bring about life, if not God or aliens?
What im trying to get at is that you would think that out of the millions of fossils you would find a ?missing-link? set to complete one gap in the evolutional theory.
I hear what your saying about the evolution of lingustics and its apparent that it has the "basics of evolution". I wouldn't compare the evolution of life and the evolution of language because it is much easier to acknowledge that language evolves than life. Im not at all saying that life does not evolve I am simply trying to fill gaps that I NEED to be satisfied for belief. Enoug belief for me to be able to tell someone that this is what happened and the hows and the whys.
Lets switch gears for a second?
To my understanding science has conducted experiments to basically simulate the conditions of early earth and in these experiments some produced components of DNA and RNA protiens. What I get stuck on so easily is how non-living matter could jump to even the simplest cells(bacteria). Bacteria lacks a nucleus correct?How can something like a cell which has thousands of enzymes that closely resemble todays machines have started from non-living material? To me cells basically contain power generators, factories, transportation systems and so on. The cell follows specific guidelines almost as if each cell was a mircroscopic city. How can something this complex become so complex on its own with no guidance?? I do understand that we lack the concept of infinite time and I see time as part of the equation of evolution but it baffles me that something this complex can become this complex on its own AND not to mention starting from non-living material. To me this is to complex and we are just talking about cell?s. You and me are a completely different story. I hate to say it cause ill get flamed but evolution seems to be simple-mined and over confident.
I am not ending this here I just have to take a break to eat?. Please comment back
For the evolutional process to work the fact "With time anything is possible" has to be in place. How can something like DNA create itself? Incase anyone isnt familiar or they are stoned DNA is contains all of your genetic codes and billions of complicated codes and structures.The structure itself is completely amazing and I have the utmost respect for it and however it was created by. Im sure you have all seen pictures of what a strand of DNA would look like. The spiraling sides of each DNA ladder is made of complicated sugar and phosphate compounds, and the ladders across are nitrogen compounds. Everyones codes are different which when you think of all the people in history you can start you realize the diversity it. I do not want to get into too much detail but if you want you can easily research how it works. Basically all the cells divide and almost instantly a pair is created. Just as people in society have a role to complete the enzymes have a role to complete, but that is hardly a good comparison. One enzyme is responsible for basically spell checking the entire process and has to be HIGHLY INTELLIGENT to achieve this process at the rate it does. The DNA in your body acts as the commander to all your cells and tells them exactly what to do and they do it. For this to work it HAD to have been correct from the get-go! Each cell contains a hundred thousand million atoms, yet each atom will be arranged in a specific order. How could that come out of a evolutional process?? THIS IS JUST A VERY VERY SIMPLE OVERVIEW OF DNA! SHALL WE GO INTO RNA???
I'm skipping a couple pages for now, but if aliens did bring us here, then it's only because they couldn't find suitable conditions for life, anywhere near, and they brought us as cells, because we're not too far evolved to not notice our webbed-hands and feet, and an eyelid, similar to crocodiles, that kept the water out which we consider "junk in the corner of our eye".
And that first atom came about through gases in space. Where did that space come from?
im a cosmologist and a darwinist. i believe we evolved from bacteria that formed with the creation of the earth, which formed from the Solar Nebula Theory. i believe we came from outer-space...from an asteriod that brought the first traces of hydrogen that formed our atmosphere which set the conditions for life. thats my shpeal. i think we are all made of stars.
you say that but can you explain how our highly complex DNA came from bacteria????????????? Our DNA hasnt evolved either.
You make it sound like you dont understand just how highly advanced our DNA is, its fucking mind blowing
Take the highest form of data storage we will ever create and then make it biological and shrink it down thats your DNA in laymens terms
as i say this scientists are at work trying to put answers in to fit the pieces of the universal questions. Really its only a matter of time till they are able to explain it and then its only a matter of time for it to be proven wrong or right by other generations. Its a ongoing system which is why i dont put much faith in it to begin with, although i do understand its the best we got.Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
oh man...where to start, LOL! how about with this..."You make it sound like you dont understand just how highly advanced our DNA is, its fucking mind blowing"
yeah, so advanced we are 2% different from chimpanzee's? and this whole thing about missing evidence from the chain of evolution...are you saying because we have yet to find a certain 'missing link' that it does not exist? and our "complex chemical ractions" are no more profound than a pig's! which is precisely why they make such good tests subjects and transplants for humans.
i could go on but out of time...
i know about the chimps and the same with mice correct????
im talking about where/how dna started
When i talk about the complexity of DNA im talking about JUST DNA not the differences. DNA itself is highly complex either being humans, primates, rodents....
and why our DNA hasnt evolved, whats makes it the expection
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Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
Did you just say we share the same genetic similarities with apes as we do with mice?! :eek:
You havent read anything on evolution have u? Hahah funny. I bet most of the people going on about aliens and god havent taken the time to read either the basics of evolution OR the bible.
*DNA supposedly evolved very slowly from a more simple code, RNA. I think.
*Evolution is a natural mechanism, like the tides moving from the moon's gravity, it doesnt need something to create it.
* Primates are not simply less evolved humans. Groups of creatures break off and are subjected to different enviromental pressures and evolve different sets of adaptations.
-I'm sure aliens exist, but they dont seem to have altered our genetics..
* Props to oneiraunt, beachguy + del i enjoyed your posts :thumbsup:
To smoking skeleton..youve got some good ideas but u need to read more :D same with king kong..its good to think outside the box but try to accompany it with something more than speculation
--> Everyone Read: The Dragons of Eden or charles darwin works, click on "evolution" in my sig
Peace
I thought they say that DNA evolved from RNA because DNA was more efficent at what it did
So evolution has been was been and always will be???? Isnt that the same as God has been was been and always be?????????
So humans could have stopped evolving because there is no pressure to evolve???
Evolution is a theory. There is no evidence in the fossil record, only seperate species all the way down the line. If you are a man of science and reasoning please point me to some SOLID evidence that evolution is a truth. It has even been suggested by some scientists who have done tests that Neanderthals were not genetically related to humans. That means humans must have "evolved" from something else. Doesnt anyone else get annoyed that the theory of evolution is always presented as an absolute fact. Where is the SOLID evidence? Until then it shall reamin theory
Explain to me why people evolved the ability to walk on two legs and come down from the trees to hunt buffalo or whatever when walking like a chimp is faster. We'd have been run down by a load of big cats who probably wouldn't have been able to believe their luck. What would have made human beings fitter to survive? Our brains are bigger but why did we evolve brains that are scientifically proven to only use a third of???
when i read about evolution it seems like a way to get people to think materialistically and to deny God. Then you get people like americans....
Im suprised nobody has mentioned the genetic mutations theory...
There is still pressure to evolve. Humans have not stopped evolving.
Show us this so called scientific fact that we're not geneticly similar to neanderthals!
Your facts are bunk man, science does not say that we only use 1/3 of our brain, either.
That's nice. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Flesh420
Explain our appendix. We'll soon start being born without them. Explain why our hands and feet have tiny "webs" to paddle water with. Explain the junk in the corner of your eye, which the entrance to the tear ducts surrounds. Explain our tailbone and wisdom teeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
let me ask you this, what does something need to be fact
If we can map backwards to see our beginning why cant we map forwards to see what is next in the evolutional process?
1/3 was a ballpark but i do know we do not use a large portion, why not? we evolve parts that we seem to not use?? Some claim that we are losing a tail bone as time goes on because we "do not require it anymore". So if we dont use these portions of your brain would they disappear with time also???
You are taking it like i completely deny evolution. To me(like it or not) it seems like evolution and religion battle each other profusely and are at each others throats each being stubborn and saying they are right and the other is wrong. That is understandable, if evolution was completely proved then religion would be bunk. If religion was proved then evolution would be bunk.
You can spew all these facts and experiments and what not but it still doesnt explain the holes that I AM trying to fill so I CAN be satisfied with believing a theory. I dont know what part you dont get about that.
LETS TALK ABOUT DNA AND ITS COMPLEXITY AND HOW DNA STARTED!! THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE YOUR TAILBONE APPENDIX WEBS JUNK IN THE CORNER OF YOUR EYE
(off-topic)why do evolutionists try to slit creationisms throat so fiercely like its a crack mission. Why would you want to rip someones beliefs right out from under them. Is someone wrong for believing something that merely gives them a outline of how to live life to be a better person and the chance to be rewarded in the afterlife for this??
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Originally Posted by del...
hmmmm what percentage does it take for something to be genetically similar???????
you tell us...you seem to have all the answers (although i have yet to see any sources). one can pull crap from one's butt all day long but it doesn't make it fact. can you show us where you get your idea's from? (besides the bible...)
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Originally Posted by Euphoric
I didnt notice you said this at first
I meant we share similarites to mice but not the same to chimps....
They use mice as models for human disease they are even currently(or close to) inserting human genes into mice genetic codes.....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._dnachimp.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by del...
You might add that "whoops well that isnt a big difference" but it is when speaking in these terms, its large. These are actually based on just fragments of whats mapped out so when its finished how do you know someone might say "whoops well we were wrong sorry, fuck it!" "WE COME FROM __________" instert new bullshit here....
As soon as i find a reliable source backing up what i have said before i will post it, its not like i bookmark every study i read or webpage you demanding fuckers
Im not the only one who isnt posting reliable sources......
Ill be back to talk bout this later tonight, dont think im backing out but this is the only time this week ive had a chance to get some videoing gaming in, gotta take advantage fellas
I was beginning to wonder if you did anything else besides provide us with great information on such a hugely debated topic. Kudos, dude!:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
I still think there is a God of sorts and It (He/She) designed life on earth and its sustainability and even designed evolution. Without evolution, we wouldn't all be here now. I don't think we came from apes. But that doesn't mean there isn't some kind of evolutionary process at work as Darwin suggested.
Geez, though, this thread sure takes alot of time to read and digest.:D
Yeah ive heard people that were for both evolution and religion(oddly enough) to say that a creator use evolution and natural selection as a fine tuning method but im not all for that idea unless i could find more information on it, sounds sketchy but like i said you really have to keep an open mindQuote:
Originally Posted by mfactor420
No aliens did not give apes a gene.........HA HA. Ever heard of adaptation or evolution?Quote:
Originally Posted by sublimnial
Do a research on galopagos islands or charles darwin, then you will understand.
Animals adapt to their surroundings after a long period of time and the evolve.
Woah! I never said "religion". I said "God of sorts" which could be "higher power", but not "religion". Religion is man made and is a pile of crap. It's not really what our Creator had in mind for us. Religion is used to subjegate and control the masses. For me to believe in some higher power does not mean I am religious. I could be wrong, but under my belief, religion is what people do every Sunday in church and that's not the same as believing in some sort of Higher power. I don't need to prescribe to some church doctrine to believe that there is some sort of Higer Power that created us and the universe (call it "faith" or gut instinct) and in so doing, realized that for long term sustainability, that Higher Power was smart enough to build in evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by C4nn4Bliss
After all, if we are to take the Bible as Gospel, that Higher power was smart enough to realize the we would be sinners always and the way our species is f****** up the planet with our consumptive ways and wasteful unenvironmentally friendly attitudes, there had better be some kind of evolution to take care of our mess because we are sinning something awful on this planet.
One more point. There is an album by Orb, called "Orblivion". Listen to track 7, called S.A.L.T. At -55 seconds of that track, the narrator begins to talk about evolution. The interesting point he raises is what death is. He states that evolution is itself evolving and that our death (the apocolypse) is just a natural step in that process (leap) of evolution. "By the very definition of apocolypse, mankind must cease to exist, at least in a material form. Well, it will evolve into something that transcends matter. Into a species of pure thought."
That's some pretty heavy s*** to be considering, but let the idea sink in, keep an open mind and you will realize as I have, that this makes perfect sense. If you have to, smoke a couple of real good joints.
I think the other part worth some thought was when the narrator was talking about the frog never considering or imagining that his simple croak would evolve into all the diffrerent speach patterns we now know (for those of you who believe we evolved from reptiles). So too, can we not comprehend or consider our destiny. I'm not so sure about this. I think our minds can consider and imagine our evolutionary future and that's what separates us from most animals. I believe in some ways, dolphins are smarter than us. They know stuff we don't. We either don't know it or repressed it over time.
That's enough for now.:thumbsup: