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I'm too lazy to read the four pages of posts so sorry if someone already made this arguement.
Did it ever occur to everyone that God acts through evolution? That God uses evolution as a tool to change creatures and God is the one responsible?
Just an idea.
Yeah, it has. You must be legally blind.
Is that the way it's spelled in Canada?Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
When I was working for this Italian guy, who had this other (Northern) Italian guy helping him, the Northern Italian said that in his diallect, (what I said) means, "You are the most beautiful girl a man has ever met," or something like that.
It would be more like "tu sei la ragazza piu bella del mondo," or you're the hottest chick in the world :DQuote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
:smokin:
hmmmmmmm
I had this conversation with my g/f the other night. I had no idea I was with a Creationist and her entire family are creationists and believe 100% in ID. I was in shock, but my favorite part was when they ignored and denied facts like the fossil record, carbon dating, radioactive half-life, you know the usual if you have a brain and some time to look it up.
I'm angnostic to all religion and look to science as the key the everything.
Everything evolves
Evolution is a FACT of the universe people
the MECHANISM of evolution, or how evolution occurs is still just a theory.
There are 2 definitions for theory.
One, that a theory is just a guess
and two, that is a theory in that it has been reviewed ungodly amounts of times, includes major evidence and accepted by most scientists and still has to be reviewed.
In science, NOTHING is certain, as in 100% fact. Evolution is 99.99999999999999999999.......9% certain, but it can never be 100% certain. But it would be silly for a person to not accept Evolution and Natural Selection as certain becuase of all the evidence; unless you were a fundamentalist christian stubborn as hell to never question or re-interprete the bible as anything that isn't "right" or your local pastors interpretation.
In reality, ID(intelligent design) is just some other way that the Church controls it's people by trying to pass ID off as science, when it is just a intepretation of the Judeo-Christian bible. If you can get a mass of people to believe in 1 thing that is stone cold evidence to the mass, then the controller has power.
Bah, all religion are out to make money and every religion is the perfect religion or the "right" one.
Dan
It all has to do with pre-supposition. Carbon dating methods, and fossil research do not take into account the possibility (and realistic possiblitiy at that) that a global flood occured. Therefore right off the bat they don't take into concideration the chemicals in rock and mineral that would have been washed away from water. Therefore less chemicals means, to scientists, that more time must have passed, etc etc. There are fossils that have shown to be fossilized INSTANTLY. Aside from that, there have been carbon dating tests on things that are thousands, and even hundreds of years old that have shown to them to be millions or even billions of years. Creationists and evolutionists alike have the same information to deal with... hte same resources, and yet they use their pre-suppositions to come up with two different answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemoCommando
Evolution is a religion, I'm sorry. It is a religion because it, like christianity, is based on faith. There is not an ounce of proof that humanity has ever been any different. Infact, the fatal error in evolution, and it's theology is that its inevitable goal is for humanity to evolve into perfection. Not all believe this I'm sure, but a lot of people think humanity can and will save itself through our own effort and evolution. That shows me that A-even atheists know that we're somewhere we're not suppost to be spiritually, and B-that we are a creation that needs to be saved.
Evolution is a fact you say? I think you're on to something there, but I think the way we think of evolution is wrong. Without relying on what other people tell you about evolution, what about it makes sense/doesn't make sense? I know from simple observation that things seem to adapt to their environment, and that it has at times gotten to the point where adaptation requires a complete overhaul...however this "evolution" that we observe only happens when there is a requirement for it. If it's too cold, animals seem to come up with longer hair. If a small pond is slowly draining, fish might become frogs...etc.Evolution isn't however, the cause. It is rather the effect. It's only when a requirement for evolution exists that it occurs.
What reason would evolution ever possibly have that would give a creature of the Earth reason to develope thinking, or even emotions...what reason would love have to come into existence in a completely material world? What natural environment would a creature have to have in order that it would need logical thinking, rather than just instinct?
Personally, I believe we were given these things not for our time on earth, but for our time with God...knowledge, wisdom, and love were given to us in a way that we might know and love God (and of course that little bit of God that is in everyone). There is really no other reason for us to have these things.
[/QUOTE]
But it would be silly for a person to not accept Evolution and Natural Selection as certain becuase of all the evidence; unless you were a fundamentalist christian stubborn as hell to never question or re-interprete the bible as anything that isn't "right" or your local pastors interpretation.
In reality, ID(intelligent design) is just some other way that the Church controls it's people by trying to pass ID off as science, when it is just a intepretation of the Judeo-Christian bible. If you can get a mass of people to believe in 1 thing that is stone cold evidence to the mass, then the controller has power.
Dan[/QUOTE]
Why should it be expected of me to requestion my beliefs over and over again when you take what scientists tell you as unquestionable fact? Especially after all the errors we've made in our "scienctific findings" that have become known. There are many scientists that disgregard evolution, and many that don't, so even THEY don't agree with eachother. Atheistic science, which is all for evolution, is often looked at as the best way to go about doing things because it neither includes, nor excludes any single religion...but the fatal flaw is that atheism is also a religion. It's the least "religion like" on the outset because it has no doctrine, nor any single belief that would be neccessarily consistent with another atheist's belief, but it is still a "belief" in something that is unknown. Therefore evolutionists, like creationists, base their findings FIRST on what they believe to be true, secondly on what they've found.
Finding truth is an individual effort. I ask God if what I'm believing is right on a daily basis, and ask him for knowledge and wisdom that I might know HIM, not "church"...christianity is my religion yes, but just because it's a "religion" does not mean you have to have blind faith in the least in believing it. I can garuntee you I've been more critical of my faith in christianity than you
This was briefly mentioned before but Iâ??d like to bring this up again. Biological evolution is only a part of the total evolution of the Universe as a whole. We know how old the Earth is because we know how old the Sun is, which we know by studying the stellar evolution of stars (which is what I study and have done science in.)
You, Pyramidsonmars, have some major problems in how you think of science. It has no comparison to religion and takes no faith, only an understanding what works, what the evidence shows, and in some cases where things are headed.
I think you need to take a look at both Madagascar and Hawaii as examples of variation and evolution. Both are isolated regions in the world where species have differentiated enough from their ancestors to become new species. Especially in Hawaii where cardinals were introduced fairly recently and are already splitting off into new species. Evolution is an on going, real process (like F L E S H has said) "whether you or I believe it or not."
Also: Youâ??re wrong; very few scientists think evolution has no potential. Evolution is the only theory accepted by the scientific community. There is NO evidence showing otherwise. Science is out to explain the universe as well as itâ??s able to. Any theory or idea that doesnâ??t hold up to the scientific method is tossed out. This goes for any science in any field; physics/astronomy , chemistry, biology.
"Why should it be expected of me to requestion my beliefs over and over again when you take what scientists tell you as unquestionable fact? Especially after all the errors we've made in our "scienctific findings" that have become known."
This proves to me that you have no idea how science works. Almost nothing is static. We have current theories that will change and others that may not. It all depends on how much we know and how much we can know. Evolution is one of the theories that are not subject to much change because the evidence for it is strong. While others are very poorly understood and will require major leaps in scientific ideas in order to make any progress. Evolution is definetly not one of them.
Would a creationist like to explain dinosaur fossils, please?
God put them there to test our faith, of course. It's all a big divine hoax, to see if we stay the course... Makes sense, don't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by psychopixi
LOL. Realistic? You, out of all people, want to discuss what's realistic? The only thing that could resemble a global flood is when the last Ice Age ended and the ice caps receded about 10,000 years ago, when humans had already long achieved their present form.Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramidsonmars
Wow, that's a load of bullshit. No one ever speaks of "salvation" except people like you. How does that even come into the discussion? And who said we're evolving into perfection? There's no goal in evolution, no teleology whatsoever. And there is no faith either. People look around themselves, see how the world behaves, see what is left behind from life-forms millions of years old, and we draw conclusions from that. That is scientific method. No faith involved.Quote:
Evolution is a religion, I'm sorry. It is a religion because it, like christianity, is based on faith. There is not an ounce of proof that humanity has ever been any different. Infact, the fatal error in evolution, and it's theology is that its inevitable goal is for humanity to evolve into perfection. Not all believe this I'm sure, but a lot of people think humanity can and will save itself through our own effort and evolution. That shows me that A-even atheists know that we're somewhere we're not suppost to be spiritually, and B-that we are a creation that needs to be saved.
LOL, Flesh. I knew you'd be up to Psychopixi's challenge.
Ah, but isn't he in favour of evolution?Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
Why can't someone be an Athiest and not believe in God but also be a spiritual person not bound to any standards set by religion? Taking sides is for pussies!1
Yeah, but he can see both sides. :confused: ................. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by psychopixi
Try not to encourage avatars like that (FLESH). It only makes it worse. Also, this is my mandatory Reply to B.i.T. exercise. Keep it real. Yo. Wait it's you..ok..keep it freaking insane :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
p.s. The Decent Of Man - Charles Darwin
wow, don't talk to someone because you don't like their avatar? That's a new one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoric
You can't see BOTH sides, that's just crazy talk. You're either on one side or the other, man!1 ;(Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
Evolution or Creation? I want to believe the God created Evolution, hence I'm a Creation/Evolutionist.
It's too hard to fathom our God creating Evolution. I mean, sure this can be this "Divine Plan" everyone is talking about but I think that would be just plain blasphemous. I think Evolution is a fraud created by humans and these humans have a one way ticket straight to Hell!1
picture of hellQuote:
Originally Posted by CocaCola
If God can create anything why would he create evolution? Why not just get to the point? :confused:
Again, another flaw in God's existence. If he could create anything then why even create anything.
I already posted this before... God is everything so why would he create anything, if he is everywhere already? He is omnipotent and omnipresent and omniscient, so WHY did you do shit?
Answer me this and I'll believe God.
BTW: Euphoric, I was saying that would be a more plausible event then just God creating everything one thing at a time.
A question that YOU can't answer does not make anything flawed. Why would God create anything if he is everything? Think of it this way: Is an architect actually THE house he designed? No, it does not work like that. God is not sin, nor is he ever in the presence of sin. A hateful remark to God, once it is said, is no longer said to God because it is sinful; he is no longer there, he is above it, it doesn't reach him. So needless to say God is not actually everything in the sense that there are things among the "created" that have turned away from him. Why God created love for other beings to experience other than him is the question. Essentially I'm implying that God has chosen to create other "beings" to experience "good" (for whatever you take that to be), and therefore had to "set the stage", by creating the material universe as we know it. For all we know, God could have made it ANY way he wanted, and we would know it as 'normal'.Quote:
Originally Posted by CocaCola
SO in the end I'm saying God is everything because it had to come from SOMEWHERE, but he is actually NOT his creation: simply where it came from.
The term 'being' is another thing I want to "trip" about. God says we're created in the image of him. God also is the only one who identifies himself as "I am" other than Jesus, therefore we are in the likeness of God, I would say, because we, unlike animals, are "beings", who account for themselves as "I", and therefore have a sense of the Good and Bad that exist. For some reason we are a fallen species, and are connected to the Bad, addicted to it if you will, and are therefore no longer in the "arms of God"
I'd really like to see someone do a test on the actual results of putting fossils and rock under THAT much pressure of water on the earth for that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychopixi
You're good, man. You are good. Ok, so far we know that God created this material plane so that God could create other beings to place there and experience love... and according to you, may have possibly created other planes. However, that still doesn't answer my question... WHY?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars
WHY did God create this plane and us to experience love and life? WHY?
There is no reason is what you're saying, right? He just wants to spread the love... that crazy God.
Ok, so explain this... WHY?
Why not? Maybe that's it? Maybe God was just tired of being the only one supreme being, so he made us to ehh... I don't know... toy with? There couldn't be any other reason, I guess... otherwise there couldn't be a one supreme being, becasue he'd have no reason to be.
If you were to just say what you said in the second paragraph, I would have said I agree but is God really a being or jsut a start of something, which is what I believe.
I'm just looking for a simple answer here... none of this sin and other planes. Why did God create anything? If he is the all-knowing all-seeing all-being supreme master of everything... why did he create the universe? He wouldn't have to create anything because everything is already there, becasue he is everything. So WHY? Wouldn't it be more plausible to suggest that the universe WAS already and that God had nothing to do with it? Give me a simple answer here, man... shut me down!1 :thumbsup:
I mean, if God does exist on a higher dimension (which I am not denying), then his excuse for creating us or anything would be beyond our concept of reasoning, as we can't just create planes of existence. So why we are here can't really be answered by anyone other then God. So fuck why were we put here... because I know it's just becasue we are to live and love. To have a higher reason is to be beyond human... But is God a being or a concept of existence on higher planes? That is the question... becasue appearntly, billions of people think that their God (whatever their religion) is an actual being.
Say that God created Life. It's our own fabrication that it was in his own image. So, since the beginning of time, all the various species were from that original creation. That would mean he would've been the one to fuse Carbon and Hydrogen. Accident or divine intervention, something created those elements, but as for now, they are responsible.
To filter out sin from himself!...see the tree at the center of the garden?...it is the filter for God to be sinless...if we as humans remove this tree, God becomes angry...and he sent Adam and Eve into Death to restore what they have made missing in Eden...since sin brought Adam and Eve out of Eden...a sinless Adam and Eve should return it...Thus forgiveness!Quote:
Originally Posted by CocaCola
My brain is actually about to pop.
It's all bullshit. It's all in our fucking imagination. I'm sick of it even thinking about that asshole. What a perfect plan, God. Loops and twists and turns and drops and holes and missing tracks, yeah, the great divine plan. What a ride that is...
Keep on thinking of brilliant ways to deny Him, that will pass your time until you wait for death.
Or you can accept Him and?
How deep did the water rise during this time? Was it enough to cover Mount Everest? or did it stop at the tree line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars
I'll use Mount Ararat and assume 5200m.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
This means that during the flood (according to the bible) about 6.3x10^17 m^3 of exess water was on the surface of the Earth. Assuming sea level was the same before and after. This is about 1.8 times the volume of the Atlantic ocean or approx. 2/5 of the current volume of water on the surface of the Earth.
So either the flood wasn't of the madnitude the bible claims or the sea level before the flood was much much lower.
I did this using the volume for a sphere, the radius of the Earth, the radius plus the height of Mt. Ararat and that website for the volume of water in the oceans.
All you have to do is look at the poll results so far EVOLUTION BY A MILE :) . Look around you it is so obvious 2006 and years of brainwashing and you guys still aint met the guy . You would think he'd make an appearence just to shut us non-believers up would'nt ya ? Do The Evolution Baby !!!!!
Even if it doesn't sound that way (I rarely sound polite) I'm not really calling anyone here stupid, and I'll admit right now that while I do know a lot about the scientific process and argument building, I can't claim I know anything for sure when it comes to the creation of life.
Evolution has NOT been proven. Anyone that claims there is undeniable proof of evolution is lying to you. Of course, any scientist should know that nothing can be proven 100 percent, so that's also not a reason to doubt evolution. There IS evidence that SUGGESTS evolution.
Creationism has NOT been proven and there is NO evidence to even suggest it, and most likely there never will be. That's not to say creationism is stupid and impossible, just that creationism is a matter of faith, not science, and cannot be proven using the scientific method. We don't have any other method of proving things yet, so until we do there will never be any proof of creationism.
OF COURSE CREATIONISM CAN EXPLAIN EVERY FLAW IN EVOLUTION. All a creationist has to say is "God did it" and they've explained it. Obviously most creationists are slightly more specific, but essentially that's what they're saying.
In my opinion creationism can't, and shouldn't be argued. There is no argument for creationism because there are no real facts that can be used in an argument for or against creationism, it goes nowhere. That's not to say creationism isn't possible (in fact, many aspects of it even seem likely to me) but it's a matter of faith and religion, not science and debate. Likewise, Evolution can't be argued as an alternative to creationism because science and faith just aren't that connected. If you're going to argue for a scientific theory, you need to argue against another scientific theory, not god.
Personally, I believe in a little of both. Being a scientist, I believe in the ability of the scientific method to find the truth, and science shows a lot of support for the basic idea around evolution, even if the whole thing is still obviously flawed. Being a human being with eyes and ears, I also can't believe life randomly bubbled out of some really old puddle and just happened to evolve into me and you, that seems a little more far fetched than god creating us in 6 days. It seems more likely that evolution is a very real thing (My uncle once told me dinosaur bones are just god trying to test us, which is complete BS, why would god lie and decieve us into thinking he wasn't real?) and it also seems likely to me that evolution didn't just happen by chance. The odds of bacteria evolving into humans, even over billions of years, is just too small. I don't doubt there was some divine presence helping it along.
Believing in god is like beliveing anything.. it is just a belief...
beliefs are fleeting thoughts in fleeting lives..
this does not mean there is not a god... it just means that if you believe in god.. it is nothing else other than a belief... no more powerful, no more helpful, than believeing in Santa Claus, or Gravity or the bible.
Is there a way to KNOW something?
if you are feeling immediate answers pop up to these questions,
or rebutals to others POSTS and statements..
if you are being "reactionary" then this is a clear sign that you are "in your head" or in belief mode... this is the constant state of 99% of the planet...
most people are so "reactionary" that they don't even know it..
The thought in their heads come one right after another .. with no GAP no SPACE..
They are UNCONCIOUS... if you point this out to them, they will wake up for 1 second.. and then quickly go back unconcious and become reactionary.. defending their false IDENTITY...based on their beliefs...
is there any other state...
YES
you can choose to evolve.. choose to be with "god"... you can choose to "BE"...
you can choose to take your awareness out of the mind and BE..
Your eternal self is AWARENESS... humans have pointed their awareness at their mind for so long that they have become confused and think that they are their mind.
It would be as if you were in front of your computer so much that you forgot you were a human.... it is that insane...
If you wish to see or experience a glimpse of what you really are... you will most likely have to sit in a non reactionary state. Stilness...SITTING ...
your mind will never allow you to have this glimpse of BEINIG of GOD..
no amount of praying, or going to church, or doing LSD or smoking weed... NO AmOUNT will allow you to get a glimpse.
You will have to conciously choose to evolve... You will conciously have to choose to evolve and become one with "GOD"... to beome I...
I AM..
Many people have experiences that put them
in a state of BEING...
A state of I AM..
A state of LOVE..
A state of STILL MIND...
A state in which ones awareness is not held captive by the mind.
When this expeience of I AM...LOVE.. FREEDOM... BEING... GOD... (what ever you want to call it) is over... when one once again becomes captive of the mind...
The mind will make up an explanation.. a belief... it often comes in the form of religion and people turn to god and this leads them back to their mind... away from just being.. they go back to beliefs.... belief that preserve their false IDENTITY
I AM JO BLOW, STONER, CHRITIAN, FOOTBALL PLAYER, BLAH bLAH bALJAJKHAKJHz
LOL - look at all the posts above this one.. reactions of the mind... defending a POSITION or attacking anothers position in order to solidify the ones own IDENTITY... andthe foundation of the minds identity is BELIEFS... NO BELIEF is TRUTH... belief are only relative truths....
the truth is... I AM...
LOVE
the opposite of BIRTH is DEATH
LIFE IS TIMELESS
YOU ARE LIFE
LOVE
god.... GOD??? Who the hell cares?!!!
Seriously, you all need to stop contemplating things like these, you will never be wiser from it.
Anyway it really doesn't matter if there is a god, lets just hope, that if he does exsist, that none of the religions, are right about him, cuz then we're all screwed.
Howdy LOVElife,
I voted for God being the Creator,of course. :thumbsup:
There's been found to be some degree of fakery involved with scientists attempting to support the Darwin model--even outright fakery,why would scientists have to resort to fakery to support Darwin ?
I don't see how anyone who tokes marijuana and understands just how complex a plant it is,can believe that Nature evolved a plant that can do so much good for so many folks with different problems and needs. Why would Nature even evolve such a plant ?
I believe that God created marijuana for us to use as medicine,and that He created hemp for food,fuel,fiber and medicine too,hemp also has the ability to clean-up the enviroment,as well..why would Nature evolve such a plant ?
When I sit in my living-room and see the way that a single doobie,can help an epilectic feller,my gal with her pain and depression and me,with my bad back and arthritis,all at the same time and each of us with our different problems..it strikes me -- that only God could create such a wonderful plant,capable of helping each person with their diverse problems and ailments..how is it--that so many of y'all..don't feel that ? What have y'all done to yer souls ? Where's yer spirituality ? How can one be only half of what one is ?
Have a good one ....
I THINK it says 40 feet above the tallest peak in the bible, but I could be wrong (might be 20)...needless to say a number IS given dudes...I mean that this thing is actually possible to prove. I'd really like to see some science put in to testing the flood theory...I mean a lot of it (as creationists are the only one's who believe it and therefore are the only one's who bother researching about it).Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420