god, yes
organized religion, no
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god, yes
organized religion, no
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Originally Posted by F L E S H
Yes thats true, but we should really look at how many atheists vs. people of religion who do good in the world, like devoting their lives to helping the poor, etc.. When people think of civil rights and peace activists who had the most impact on the world in the 20th century, people like Martin Luther King(VERY religious) and Gandhi(also believed in a higher power) or Mother Theresa come to mind. Of course, many religious people in power werent very nice people. But the ultimate question is whether an atheist or a person of God is more likely to do good in the world. Sure, a nun might think gays will go to hell, and be pro-life, but if she spends her entire life in Africa making sure kids have clean drinking water, does it really matter?
Mother Theresa ect just making up for dumb shit their religions did, like the crusades!
Man, people are people, whether they're religious or not.
I don't know guys...amsterdam has made some good points...
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torogs a dying breed?you must be outta your mind.seriously.
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be careful saying that around here,tons and tons of anti-religon finatics around here.
Shit those are deep man, fucking deep.Quote:
victim?please.silly canadian.
I kind of have to crack up when somebody admits to admiring religous "do-gooders".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojavpa
If your nuns in Africa, or the organization(s) they represent, deny the people in third world countries the right to have birth control, then they are contributing to the problems of poverty - and all of the diseases that could be prevented with condoms and safe sex. Condemning condoms is not "good" - it's stupid. Africa has, I believe, the highest Aids outbreak in the world. The Church could care less, and tells them to use abstinence.
Mother Theresa's homes for the dying were just that - she believed that people's afterlife was more important than life here on earth. She, however, flew around in jets and was wined and dined by rogues, dictators, and various scoundrels. She turned down a building that was offered to her, to be used as a hospital in NYC, because it had ELEVATORS - she did not believe in them!
The churches opposed most all of the scientific and medical discoveries in the world. It was the men of knowledge, not the superstitious idiocy of anti-human priests that made our life spans go from 20 something in biblical times to what it is today. Next time you need medical care, whom are you going to go to - a doctor or a priest?
It??s the heretics, infidels and other freethinkers that make the world better ?? not the religious. All real progress in the world is outside of religion, not because of it.
Just my opinion.
Yes, you make some good points, especially that the church contributes to the AIDS problem by denying condoms to people. However, I'm not talking so much about organized religion as those individuals who are motivated to do good in the world because of their faith, or inspired by figures in their religion, whether it be Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, or a Hindu God. Many of these people may not adopt every principle of their religion, but still believe in God, and this drives them to help people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Remember, I was raising the issue of atheists vs. those who believe in God, because someone wrote that an atheists point of view was more accepting and "good" than a religious person's.
BTW, I wouldnt say that all progress was made outside of religion. You totally discount those achievements by scientists and artists whose work was a result of their faith, such as Isaac Newton. We wouldnt live so long if it wasnt for his achievments in math and science, and look at Bach. Everything he wrote was in the name of God. Any kind of Western music we listen to was directly influenced by him.
I never said that religious people do more good than atheists. Atheists and infidels, in my opinion, ushered in the Enlightenment and were very important in their own right. But progress in the world has been in the sphere of religion and outside of it.
Think of people. Us. Think of us getting smaller and de-evolving until we are the first sign of life on Earth. You know, just thinking outside of the box for a minute, what if the Universe preceded God? (how can I say such a thing...?) So, we're back to the first sign of life, now we have to figure out who's the chemist?
If you do a google search of Isaac Newton, and the word Heretic, you'll get a lot of information. Newton hated organized religion (esp. the Catholic Church), and did not believe in the trinity. He had a lot of strange ideas, which was typical of almost everybody in those times (and ours as well). He was a genius, regardless of his religious beliefs (or lack of). These days, there is no excuse for actions based on theology - other than keeping it out of government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojavpa
Since there is no evidence that any "miracle" ever happened, that Christ ever lived (even as a "normal" man), or anybody was ever contacted by a "higher" power, then it is obvious that beliefs in theology and such are forms of mental illness. It is also apparent that the greatest threat to the very existence of the human race originates with the disagreements among the three big monotheistic faiths of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. If rational thinking does not become more widespread, I??m afraid that the future is not going to include our species at some point.
No one can deny that smoe people have done great humanitarian deeds in the name of religion. However, as Breukelen pointed out, I think the progress made in the name Science far outweighs religious good deeds. Religious people will shelter and care for people afflicted with hunger, disease and poverty, but scientists will seek to eradicate these afflictions for good. And I think that in some perverse way, Religion seeks to prevent any sort of significant progress, because it wuold then become irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojavpa
Religion ultimately holds back any sort of real progress. Think back to any scientific breakthrouh since the 16th century and you will see that at every opportunity, religious leaders have inevitably opposed any progress of science, be it in the realm of astronomy, biology, economics, government, physics, you name it.
I love all mah brothas, religious or not.
Firstly, u thick closed minded backshafter of a nob jockey; I was talking about 2 different things. I was talking about the huge difference between some religions as some don't mention unconditional love etc. im nt goin in2 details. Secondly some religions may slightly differ but stil be similar in many ways i wasn't necessarily talking about the same religions, next time take note of what im quoting then u may be able to fully comprehend what im talking about instead of jumping to ur dumb conclusions which i do not wish to read. *coff* wankshaft *coff* ONE (aka end of discussion aka i do not wish to hear from ur batty boi self again aka please i beg u nah reply aka sekkle ur big ass jaw with the pebbles on the floor)Quote:
Originally Posted by ermitonto
**NOTICE**...If you don't agree with me and belive there is a higher power whether you think it's god or someone/something else i beg u nah quote my messages and/or talk to me or make contact with me in any other way shape or form. Ha Ha. Im outy ONE!
Bruiser i highly reccomend you go to something called faith camp. It's where members of some churches go but u don't necessarily have to go with a church. What happens is a priest comes up to you and puts his hand to your forehead and you feel the power of te holy spirit going through your body, the force is so powerful that you fall onto the floor and you can't get back up untill it's passed it truely is amazing as i've had my doubts about God as everyone has but going to faith camp really made me believe. It's converted many non-believers into beleivers and it's really an experience you wouldn't want to miss.
Bull
shit.
Cool! An old fashioned brain-washing camp!Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen1
There are no atheists in the trenches of warfare.
your moms bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by Nullific
You know your God can read everything you post on internet message boards, don't you?
I'm gonna start typing in invisible ink.
Not if you cover the windows to your computer room with lead he can'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Nullific
This is why i wear tinfoil hats.
LOL lyk i care
I'm starting to believe if there is a god, he teases the majority of us by never letting anything work out, but giving us just enough so we keep believing we can achieve our wants and needs.
When I was high, I realised that nobody exists and the world is a figment of imagination. My life is simply a video I am playing to myself, I wrote it, everything that happens is happening because I wrote it to.
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Originally Posted by moeburn
I think you're smoking the wrong stuff.
Yes, I believe in God.
So many Christians, so few lions...
its true...Quote:
Originally Posted by moeburn
When I was high, I realised that nobody exists and the world is a figment of imagination. My life is simply a video I am playing to myself, I wrote it, everything that happens is happening because I wrote it to.
I beleave in god
I also beleave that the church can eat shit and die. I go to christian youth group becuase the people who do it are not pushers they read a passage and then leave it up to us to interpret it for our selves
I was "born" Catholic and went through all of the sacraments and attended Catholic school for 9 years. But, I knew by the time I was 12 that I didn't beleive in God anymore, or maybe I never did. All I believe in today is karma, because it has very much been a part of my everyday life.
Id really like to believe in Karma However I see things like serial killers and rapists , child molesters etc high level white collar crime. All of which victimizes alot of different groups and such. Yet these people either get a relatively painlless death or a relatively long jail term. Doesnt sound equal to 30 dead and raped (robert picton....too name just one).
...that is, if they're caught and convicted. Many aren't. If some universal mechanism of justice existed, none of them would ever get away.
There's a Hindu idea of karma and a Buddhist idea of karma.
Hinduism has the whole idea that there's this universal justice system that punishes and rewards everybody.
Buddhism states that karma is influenced by the purity of ones "soul" (note, buddhism doesn't actaully believe in an eternal soul). through evil or good actions, generally how one lives their life, the essence of your consciousness is reincarnated into the a new person (and possibly animal) which most closely relates to your last state of mind. hence, an evil person is likely to return as somebody with a very negative mindset, wheras a virtuous person is more compatible with a pure and peacefull mind. however, "you" are not reincarnated, as there is no permanent "you". the essence of your conscious self becomes a part of the newly born person. also, some buddhist philosophers theorize that troubles left unresolved may influence your karma.
there are varrying views in buddhism, some believing that karma is the univers's courtroom, but I agree with the buddhist philosophy of your final consciousness influencing your next life.
I still buy it as much as I buy any of the many fluffy white dudes in the sky with the beards. (zeus , Odin , "god" , the list goes on....)
You forgot the sentient fluffy cloud from Super Mario.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo79
Buddhism is the only religion I can respect. There arent any missionaries, as far as I know, or preachers, which make it that much more attractive. It is about improving yourself, not making sure you get into heaven.
I believe in the Gods, but that's a topic for another day. I converted to Paganism because of many reasons. One of them is because of my parents, especially my mother. She tried to tell me which faith, set of beliefs, god or Gods, and structure to follow. I tried dealing with this, but I truely got tired of the bullshit that everyone around me was pulling off, so one day I packed my shit and got the hell out of the house. They still tried to tell me stuff, but I never listened to them after I moved out. Anyways, I don't think that it makes a difference weather you believe in a god or gods, or not; I think that that's one's own business, not the worlds, although not everybody thinks that way. Those that want to criticize me for converting to Paganism, I don't care, not everyone has your beliefs and views things through the eyes of a medieval person. We don't have priechers, and other people knocking on others' doors handing out pentacles and passing out the Witch's Bible to everyone else. Thank the Gods. If you want to convert to Paganism, good for you, somebody can help you with learning things, but we won't force you to worship the gods.