what happened at the meeting today?

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Originally Posted by CannnaLady

And you can thank the private home grown caregivers that were growing and not paying sales tax for HB 1284...thanks a lot!

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Um...No. We can thank you and all the other mmcs for 1284. Caregivers were doing just fine before you opened shop. Funny how fast you forgot that little detail. It was the mmcs who supported CMMR who bent over for Romer and friends that got 1284 passed.

The sad part is that mmcs have dug their own grave by allowing the state to walk all over them. Most patients I talk to are NOT RENEWING their card. Why give the state $90 for NOTHING. So no card = no mmc sales. They went too far and you allowed them. Most of you will be closed within a year, and caregivers will continue on.

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Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ

The problem with "Shop Hoppers" is not the bargains that they receive. It is the exposure to being over plant count when they don't let you know that they changed to another center.

MMC's, and caregivers for that matter, have no means to verify their plant counts other than the patient's word.

It's fairly dicey to gamble a prison stint based on somebody's desire to get a free gram.

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^^ This exactly!

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Originally Posted by canaguy27

Um...No. We can thank you and all the other mmcs for 1284. Caregivers were doing just fine before you opened shop. Funny how fast you forgot that little detail. It was the mmcs who supported CMMR who bent over for Romer and friends that got 1284 passed.

The sad part is that mmcs have dug their own grave by allowing the state to walk all over them. Most patients I talk to are NOT RENEWING their card. Why give the state $90 for NOTHING. So no card = no mmc sales. They went too far and you allowed them. Most of you will be closed within a year, and caregivers will continue on.

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This is exactly right.

MMCs better fight now while they can most of the people they depend on will not be there in a year or so.

Red cards are not required exept at MMCs

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Originally Posted by CannnaLady

Thank You Releaf Center!
I am a dispensary center...not too far from you. But thank you for speaking your opinions from a MMC stand point. Everything you said I agree with 100% I think a lot of people don't realize what our lives are like. I don't think they know what our overhead is, what we deal with day to day and how much we have sacrificed. If dispensaries don't have quality meds then they will be shutting down soon and some already have.
People are able to get up in the morning in their pajamas and walk to a MMC and get grass, I would have KILLED for this when I was a young prat. People don't even know what they have!
Even in Amsterdam the cops come barging in, I don't think people know this. I was sitting in the gray area one time and the cops came raiding and gave them a ticket just for having the door propped open.
There's only so much complaining you can do when you are allowed to smoke and posess for free, I don't get it. Yeah I agree that it's an invasion of privacy and what not...but still! IT'S LEGAL.
And you can thank the private home grown caregivers that were growing and not paying sales tax for HB 1284...thanks a lot!

anyways, I just wanted to say that I have customers that are your patients and they always have good things to say about you. I am glad you are hear letting the MMJ Community know what it's like from a MMC standpoint. I've been stressed out for a year and have had about 3 days off. You also had a great review on the westword-keep it up!

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thanks for your honesty, i have more reason to stay away MMCs, i am starting to believe they are all evil.

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Originally Posted by CannnaLady

Thank You Releaf Center!
I am a dispensary center...not too far from you. But thank you for speaking your opinions from a MMC stand point. Everything you said I agree with 100% I think a lot of people don't realize what our lives are like. I don't think they know what our overhead is, what we deal with day to day and how much we have sacrificed. If dispensaries don't have quality meds then they will be shutting down soon and some already have.
People are able to get up in the morning in their pajamas and walk to a MMC and get grass, I would have KILLED for this when I was a young prat. People don't even know what they have!
Even in Amsterdam the cops come barging in, I don't think people know this. I was sitting in the gray area one time and the cops came raiding and gave them a ticket just for having the door propped open.
There's only so much complaining you can do when you are allowed to smoke and posess for free, I don't get it. Yeah I agree that it's an invasion of privacy and what not...but still! IT'S LEGAL.

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Thanks for quitting your Walmart job to do society such a favor, you should change your name to Mother 'CannaLady' Theresa.

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Originally Posted by CannnaLady

And you can thank the private home grown caregivers that were growing and not paying sales tax for HB 1284...thanks a lot!

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If your dispensary ever fails you have a bright future ahead of you as a stand up comedian, or in your case comedienne.

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Originally Posted by CannnaLady

Thank You Releaf Center!
I am a dispensary center...not too far from you. But thank you for speaking your opinions from a MMC stand point. Everything you said I agree with 100% I think a lot of people don't realize what our lives are like. I don't think they know what our overhead is, what we deal with day to day and how much we have sacrificed. If dispensaries don't have quality meds then they will be shutting down soon and some already have.
People are able to get up in the morning in their pajamas and walk to a MMC and get grass, I would have KILLED for this when I was a young prat. People don't even know what they have!
Even in Amsterdam the cops come barging in, I don't think people know this. I was sitting in the gray area one time and the cops came raiding and gave them a ticket just for having the door propped open.
There's only so much complaining you can do when you are allowed to smoke and posess for free, I don't get it. Yeah I agree that it's an invasion of privacy and what not...but still! IT'S LEGAL.
And you can thank the private home grown caregivers that were growing and not paying sales tax for HB 1284...thanks a lot!

anyways, I just wanted to say that I have customers that are your patients and they always have good things to say about you. I am glad you are hear letting the MMJ Community know what it's like from a MMC standpoint. I've been stressed out for a year and have had about 3 days off. You also had a great review on the westword-keep it up!

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Mmm I think the MMC's blatant neon pot leaf signs (billboards, radio adds, so on) popping up every where is what sprung the public outcry for regulation, not so much the caregiver.
Every business has overhead. Taxes can be brutal, licensing fees on and on. To think people can't relate to overhead is absurd. MMC's have it tough but there's profit in it if there wasn't you wouldn't be doing what your doing. Any type of business that doesn't put out quality is at risk of shutting down.
We're not in Amsterdam and your referencing coffee shops not MMC's, I think there's a difference.
I'm not sure what you meant by smoke and possess for free? Are you giving your med's away?
I understand what you're saying about the complaining. People overnight have become connoisseurs, not, and want to complain about quality meds that they may not have been able to obtain in the recent past thanks to the above ground market available today. We are spoiled. I have just recently read a few paragraphs of complaining from an MMC owner myself, just above this response.
You made the choice to do what you are doing. You made the choice to sign your rights away.
At this point I wouldn't really call MMJ legal. There are still consequences.
I also would like to comment on this term MMJ community, this would suck if this were true but I'm starting to feel this is separating into two, MMC community and MMJ community (caregiver/patient). This would be detrimental to the community as a whole.
I am a patient and have no hard feelings towards MMC's. I also have no hard feeling toward CannaLady, I have no reason to believe she isn't a stand up person with a good heart. I know what stress can do to a person. Although am really over the piss on the little guy mentality, this is a problem everywhere not just with MMJ. Life can be hard, we should be lifting each other up not pissing on one another.:wtf3::)

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Originally Posted by CannnaLady

Thank You Releaf Center!
I am a dispensary center...not too far from you. But thank you for speaking your opinions from a MMC stand point. Everything you said I agree with 100% I think a lot of people don't realize what our lives are like. I don't think they know what our overhead is, what we deal with day to day and how much we have sacrificed. If dispensaries don't have quality meds then they will be shutting down soon and some already have.
People are able to get up in the morning in their pajamas and walk to a MMC and get grass, I would have KILLED for this when I was a young prat. People don't even know what they have!
Even in Amsterdam the cops come barging in, I don't think people know this. I was sitting in the gray area one time and the cops came raiding and gave them a ticket just for having the door propped open.
There's only so much complaining you can do when you are allowed to smoke and posess for free, I don't get it. Yeah I agree that it's an invasion of privacy and what not...but still! IT'S LEGAL.
<b>And you can thank the private home grown caregivers that were growing and not paying sales tax for HB 1284</b>...thanks a lot!

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Its only been medical for ~10 years. Many people do remember going to jail for simple possession. Prohibition is all around CO, CO just happens to be the oasis in the desert of prohibition. Move one state over, in almost any direction (especially texas) and see what the state of matters on mmj is there. I think a big part of this fear is that people fully understand how bad it could be, and we want to do everything we can to keep it from being that way again. We fought long and hard for this, and now is when they are trying to take it away because we are closer than ever to winning this war.

Its not legal at all. Legal would be if everyone is allowed to grow as much as they want. Like grapes. Thats legal. What is in place now is tolerance at best. Actual real legalization is a ways off, in any state in USA. The war has not been won.

In HB1284, the only part where caregivers are mentioned is relating to co-ops and multiple caregivers growing under the same space. What does that have to do with sales tax? The whole rest of the bill, or at least the other 90% of it was directly related to dispensaries. Dispensaries, which CO voters did not vote for, and the constitution does not provide protection for. So if the bill is by far mostly regulating dispensaries, how was that caused by caregivers? Id say it was caused directly because of dispensaries. Can the state even collect taxes on something that is federally illegal?


Why should it be illegal to possess excess amounts of something that is harmless? You could kill yourself with water faster than you could with mj. Its medicine. Its good for us. Let us have it.

@CannaLady: Thanks for the kind words, and I apologize on behalf of some of the other forum members for their rude responses. Most of the posts on here are tempered and well thought out. I'm sorry you experienced the less savory side of can com.

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Originally Posted by TurboALLWD

Yeah relief must feel nice and cozy behind their lawyers.

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Really? Rob Corry will represent any one of you free of charge. I'm still not sure what charges those consist of. Trust me, you'll find representation if the state releases your medical info.

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The sad part is that mmcs have dug their own grave by allowing the state to walk all over them. Most patients I talk to are NOT RENEWING their card. Why give the state $90 for NOTHING. So no card = no mmc sales. They went too far and you allowed them. Most of you will be closed within a year, and caregivers will continue on.

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We'll see. The black market is great right now, but for how long?

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Red cards are not required exept at MMCs

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Most caregivers should verify you have your red card. It's also necessary if you're caught in possession.

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Thanks for quitting your Walmart job to do society such a favor, you should change your name to Mother 'CannaLady' Theresa.

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Great to see you elevating the level of discourse here, Zed. SMH.

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I also would like to comment on this term MMJ community, this would suck if this were true but I'm starting to feel this is separating into two, MMC community and MMJ community (caregiver/patient). This would be detrimental to the community as a whole.

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I concur, although I think a lot of the anger that we hear online is because it's the internet. It's the perfect place to opt out of discussion and be incendiary. Participating in the process is much more difficult and time consuming. And when MMC's don't get everything the community wants, we're labeled as Benedict Arnold's for participating.

When I was talking about the caregiver ban in Denver, I asked everyone on the board to talk about what they wanted to see happen. To collectively determine what our goals were. Needless to say, the thread died as quick as it started.

I'm not sure it's as simple as MMC's vs Patients/Caregivers, though. I think a more accurate description would be those for regulation and those for outright legalization.

Those on the regulation side are willing to concede that A20 wasn't perfect, that there will be some sacrifices, but ultimately we're participating in the first state sanctioned and regulated medical marijuana program that allows us to purchase a variety of cannabis products in a safe environment. They don't fear federal prosecution because they don't plan on committing a federal crime.

Those on the legalization side don't see why a damn near harmless plant should be regulated more than alcohol or tobacco, are worried about their private medical information being made available and see a caregiver model as viable. They are vehemently opposed to any changes to A20 and believe that it should be the final say on medical marijuana.

I disagree with that dichotomy, Releaf. Regulation vs legalization? The two go hand in hand. Legal marijuana is going to be regulated in this country, as sure as cigarettes, lettuce, alcohol and Claritin are. The regulations MMCs face now are the same kinds of regulations MJ retailers will face when it is legalized.

It is important MMCs be closely monitored, and present a squeaky-clean image and retail experience; the rest of the state and the nation are watching us to see the results of our experiment. Although I value the ability to shop from a caregiver or grow my own, MMCs are the public face of this industry, so I would hate to see them bloodied by the media. All eyes are on us, and if the Reps and the various others manage to destroy MMCs, it will set back legalization in this state. Very tight regulation of MMCs is appropriate during this sensitive period; they need to be on their best behaviour just now. (The few MMC operators I know seem to understand this.) Safe, crime-free, well-regulated MMCs are the most convincing evidence that legalization on a broader scale can work.

Again, regulation and legalization are not mutually-exclusive positions. Good regulation, rather, is a necessary step toward legalization.

I agree completely. My point was that the schism is present in the community. It seems that a majority of the comment comes in on one side or the other.

I still believe that the average patient falls into the regulation side and not the more "libertarian" (for lack of a better term), hands off my herb side. Does that make more sense?

It makes perfect sense, and I agree with your assessment of the average patient.

If there's a schism, it's between people who favor legalization and those who oppose it, not between activists. Much of what we see (and what we all occasionally post) on this forum is internet wingnut bombast, rather than an indication of a schism dividing opinion within the MJ activist community. All of the policymakers and most of the stakeholders I've spoken with are divided not over whether MJ will be regulated, but on what form that regulation will take, what the right regulations are, and what is the minimal level of regulation that will ensure patient safety and orderly industry growth. There are a lot of opinions. There will be always be a fringe opposing all regulation, but they are to be dismissed as isolated cases... not elevated to "schism status." Either way, we're substantively in agreement.

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

Really? Rob Corry will represent any one of you free of charge. I'm still not sure what charges those consist of. Trust me, you'll find representation if the state releases your medical info.

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Didn't Rob Corry also say he was going to fight 1284 in court because it was unconstitutional? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

It makes perfect sense, and I agree with your assessment of the average patient.

If there's a schism, it's between people who favor legalization and those who oppose it, not between activists. Much of what we see (and what we all occasionally post) on this forum is internet wingnut bombast, rather than an indication of a schism dividing opinion within the MJ activist community. All of the policymakers and most of the stakeholders I've spoken with are divided not over whether MJ will be regulated, but on what form that regulation will take, what the right regulations are, and what is the minimal level of regulation that will ensure patient safety and orderly industry growth. There are a lot of opinions. There will be always be a fringe opposing all regulation, but they are to be dismissed as isolated cases... not elevated to "schism status." Either way, we're substantively in agreement.

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Maybe I'm too far down the rabbit hole. Between SAFER, NORML, CTI, Sensible, COMMR, MMIG, the Marijuana Party, et al, I rarely see activists discussing common ground where there would appear to be a great deal. I suppose you're correct, though... there will always be the fringe.

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Didn't Rob Corry also say he was going to fight 1284 in court because it was unconstitutional?

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Rob did represent Lacy Lee, free of charge as far as I can tell, and she was acquitted last week. If you're looking for Rob to overturn 1284, that's going to take money. They also said they were going to work with Matt Cook to see if he could implement fixes to 1284. Since those rules aren't in place yet, maybe they're holding off and using some discretion instead of hitting the panic button?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

It makes perfect sense, and I agree with your assessment of the average patient.

If there's a schism, it's between people who favor legalization and those who oppose it, not between activists. Much of what we see (and what we all occasionally post) on this forum is internet wingnut bombast, rather than an indication of a schism dividing opinion within the MJ activist community. All of the policymakers and most of the stakeholders I've spoken with are divided not over whether MJ will be regulated, but on what form that regulation will take, what the right regulations are, and what is the minimal level of regulation that will ensure patient safety and orderly industry growth. There are a lot of opinions. There will be always be a fringe opposing all regulation, but they are to be dismissed as isolated cases... not elevated to "schism status." Either way, we're substantively in agreement.

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Your implication that those for whom freedom is a top priority are on some "fringe" or "isolated cases" is condescending, arrogant and insulting, though perfectly consistent with most of the posts of yours I've seen thus far. I am not willing to trade freedom (in this case to grow or ingest what I want to) for the protection of the government. FROM the government maybe. I can and will take care of me and mine, and did not and will not ask for help from anyone else, especially via the government.

Sorry your feelings were hurt. It wasn't my intention to insult.

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Originally Posted by ds0110

Can the state even collect taxes on something that is federally illegal?

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In this case I believe the answer is YES, which puts me in a conundrum,.....


Come Tax season,..... do I claim my gross income from my patients even tho I haven't filed a DBA? Nor do I have a tax license.

YTD my "Profits" (Gross) are a whopping $300

I've actually made about $-1700 YTD on this little venture I happened to FALL into! :mad: I won't bore you with the background.

Tho there's a slow recovery, and promising future (So long as the tick turds on capital hill don't screw me first, and they are trying! :mad: )

One can claim "Hobbies" on they're taxes,... and thats how this started, and is STILL the level I'm on, even tho I'm in the "registry" listed as a caregiver.


None the less when I file, it's gonna go to the feds too right? :wtf:

How the F does that work out? :wtf:




Back on main topic,.... I think? :stoned:

Under A20 the patient has the right to choose they're Caregiver.

Seems to me that some of the new legislations are trying to define "Caregiver" as more like a "NP", My growing the meds that greatly improve the quality of life for my patients is now no longer enough? and I have to be a Cook and private Chauffeur too? :wtf:


Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,.... and drop me Robb Corry's # too,.... I have a feeling I might need him in the future since I really don't want to cut all my girls down and have to tell my patients they have to go to MMC's :(

No Offence Relief, but my patients can't afford MMC prices for what they need.

Ok, you bring up some good points in there. Let me see if I can clarify a couple things.

The legislature, via HB1284, asked the CDPHE for more feedback on what constitutes a caregiver. I'm not sure if I posted here, but the CDPHE then asked for feedback from the community. That comment period, I believe, has closed. Still waiting on word of what a caregiver means, but previous attempts to add wellness services etc have failed miserably in the past (both at the CDPHE and in court).

When they talk about not charging over cost, there are many ways to keep your costs wherever they are. You can charge for your time (whatever you feel it's worth), the amount of space you use for cultivation relative to your mortgage/rent, etc. You can say a prayer for their bag and charge for that. It's very open to interpretation.

Jessica is probably the easier Corry to contact: 303-260-6475. I take no offense at all, canniwhatsis. We've lobbied to keep caregivers free from additional services, to stop caregiver bans in Denver and more. I wish there were more caregivers out there and patients had better access to them. They're a vital part of this community and often do some of the hardest work for the least financial reward. We need more people like that.

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Originally Posted by senorx12562

Your implication that those for whom freedom is a top priority are on some "fringe" or "isolated cases" is condescending, arrogant and insulting, though perfectly consistent with most of the posts of yours I've seen thus far. I am not willing to trade freedom (in this case to grow or ingest what I want to) for the protection of the government. FROM the government maybe. I can and will take care of me and mine, and did not and will not ask for help from anyone else, especially via the government.

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Shouldn't people be protected from ingesting harmful substances? What do you think the government should have the right to protect you from?

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

Shouldn't people be protected from ingesting harmful substances? What do you think the government should have the right to protect you from?

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People can protect them selfs.Only crybaby sheeple would want to be told what how what and when.

Maybe the government should stick to protecting us from foreign enimies.The southern border might nead a little attention too.

People nead protection From the government

Those who sell tainted mj dont sell it for long nobody wants it.

Anything the government gets involved in ends up a mess.More government bigger mess

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

Shouldn't people be protected from ingesting harmful substances? What do you think the government should have the right to protect you from?

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One could argue that a big mac is a harmful substance, a soda, deodorant, cell phones, and the list goes on and on.

1 in 2 people will develop cancer sometime in their lives whereas 50 years ago it was 1 in 10 (yet more than 50% of the population smoked cigarettes), diabetes is now an epidemic and just about every other major disease is striking a higher percentage of the population. Doesnt appear the govts attempt to protect us is working at all. But hey, at least the medical and pharmaceutical industries are making record profits.

The problem with our government is it works in the interest of those in a position of money and power, not the people it supposedly represents. Marijuana is a perfect example, it has been and still is labeled as a harmful substance by people with an interest in private prisons, alcohol companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. and millions of lives have been ruined by the govt 'protecting us' from it.

1284 was created for many reasons and the least of it was to protect or benefit consumers.

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Originally Posted by Zedleppelin

One could argue that a big mac is a harmful substance, a soda, deodorant, cell phones, and the list goes on and on.

1 in 2 people will develop cancer sometime in their lives whereas 50 years ago it was 1 in 10 (yet more than 50% of the population smoked cigarettes), diabetes is now an epidemic and just about every other major disease is striking a higher percentage of the population. Doesnt appear the govts attempt to protect us is working at all. But hey, at least the medical and pharmaceutical industries are making record profits.

The problem with our government is it works in the interest of those in a position of money and power, not the people it supposedly represents. Marijuana is a perfect example, it has been and still is labeled as a harmful substance by people with an interest in private prisons, alcohol companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. and millions of lives have been ruined by the govt 'protecting us' from it.

1284 was created for many reasons and the least of it was to protect or benefit consumers.

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So the government should protect us, but it can't because of money and power?

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

Shouldn't people be protected from ingesting harmful substances? What do you think the government should have the right to protect you from?

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we certainly don't need to be regulating marijuana any more than we do fruits and vegetables in this regard.

marijuana isn't especially harmful, requiring special regulation for health and safety. in fact, it's especially un-harmful. We just don't need to be pretending we are doing the right thing, regulating it like it's cocaine, when it's just cannabis.

cannabis is as safe as mothers milk.

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Originally Posted by copobo

we certainly don't need to be regulating marijuana any more than we do fruits and vegetables in this regard.

marijuana isn't especially harmful, requiring special regulation for health and safety. in fact, it's especially un-harmful. We just don't need to be pretending we are doing the right thing, regulating it like it's cocaine, when it's just cannabis.

cannabis is as safe as mothers milk.

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:thumbsup:

I don't subscribe to most of the conspiracy theories you will read about on these forums and others. To be effective would require of the conspirators an efficiency and competency that government rarely if ever displays. I do however believe that government employees eventually seek to preserve and expand their own power base, at the expense of their original remit.

I also am a firm believer in the law of unintended consequences, by which the actions of government tend to have consequences that were unforeseen, and often make the "cure" worse than the "disease." In this case, clearly (to me at least) unadulterated marijuana is not dangerous enough to justify any regulation whatsoever. With respect to possible adulterants, without the rewards inherent in trafficking in a black market substance (which marijuana still is under the current regulatory scheme because of the "medical" sham) there would be no reason to use any such adulterants to stimulate growth or kill pests. Once again, an example of the law of unintended consequences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by copobo

we certainly don't need to be regulating marijuana any more than we do fruits and vegetables in this regard.

marijuana isn't especially harmful, requiring special regulation for health and safety. in fact, it's especially un-harmful. We just don't need to be pretending we are doing the right thing, regulating it like it's cocaine, when it's just cannabis.

cannabis is as safe as mothers milk.

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But if this is truly medical marijuana, shouldn't it be tracked like any other medication? We don't allow people to make pharmaceuticals in their homes and distribute them, regardless of how safe they are.

If you're talking about legalization, I think you make a fair point. I just feel like at this point we're muddling the two.

Quote:

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I don't subscribe to most of the conspiracy theories you will read about on these forums and others. To be effective would require of the conspirators an efficiency and competency that government rarely if ever displays. I do however believe that government employees eventually seek to preserve and expand their own power base, at the expense of their original remit.

I also am a firm believer in the law of unintended consequences, by which the actions of government tend to have consequences that were unforeseen, and often make the "cure" worse than the "disease." In this case, clearly (to me at least) unadulterated marijuana is not dangerous enough to justify any regulation whatsoever. With respect to possible adulterants, without the rewards inherent in trafficking in a black market substance (which marijuana still is under the current regulatory scheme because of the "medical" sham) there would be no reason to use any such adulterants to stimulate growth or kill pests. Once again, an example of the law of unintended consequences.

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I disagree with you on stimulating growth, but let's turn the law of unintended consequences on it's head. If you remove marijuana from the black market, do we see a rise in illicit, highly addictive drugs? An increase in border violence as cartels struggle to retain power? I certainly wouldn't use either of these as arguments against legalization, anymore than say... a repeal of DADT may make some people uncomfortable, because it's the right thing to do. Unintended consequences are funny like that, though.

Should the government allow use of other relatively harmless substances, like LSD or mushrooms? MDMA? Do they have the right to tell you to wear your seatbelt? That you can't yell fire in a movie theater?

Just trying to get some bearings on where you're coming from.

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

But if this is truly medical marijuana, shouldn't it be tracked like any other medication? We don't allow people to make pharmaceuticals in their homes and distribute them, regardless of how safe they are.

If you're talking about legalization, I think you make a fair point. I just feel like at this point we're muddling the two.

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just because it's 'medical' marijuana doesn't change the nature of it being cannabis. the regulation is all about the money, not safety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

But if this is truly medical marijuana, shouldn't it be tracked like any other medication? We don't allow people to make pharmaceuticals in their homes and distribute them, regardless of how safe they are.

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If you want to make fish oil or vitamin c, im sure there is no problem. Mj is more natural than both of those.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

I disagree with you on stimulating growth, but let's turn the law of unintended consequences on it's head. If you remove marijuana from the black market, do we see a rise in illicit, highly addictive drugs? An increase in border violence as cartels struggle to retain power? I certainly wouldn't use either of these as arguments against legalization, anymore than say... a repeal of DADT may make some people uncomfortable, because it's the right thing to do. Unintended consequences are funny like that, though.

Should the government allow use of other relatively harmless substances, like LSD or mushrooms? MDMA? Do they have the right to tell you to wear your seatbelt? That you can't yell fire in a movie theater?

Just trying to get some bearings on where you're coming from.

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YES, prohibition does not work. You got it. On anything. It only causes a black market which in turn causes violence. It creates and enables al capone and the mexican drug cartels. It does not decrease the supply, and actually if you look at the past 30-40 years, supply under prohibition has increased. Yes, this applies to all drugs. So making them legal isnt going to increase availability. If anything it will make it harder to buy these drugs, since youll need a license to purchase. (like how liquor is harder for a minor to buy than heroin) You can never eliminate drug use, as there has never been a 100% sober society in the history of mankind. What they need is to take all this money they spend on the drug war and use it on drug education and rehabilitation. Free needle exchange. Free hard drugs but the addict has to stay at the facility for a month out of the year and sober up. Cartels/Black market dies immediately, violence goes down, etc. Border violence is about control and debts, both of which are gone if the profits are eliminated. Its not about the drug, its about the money/profits. Society would not crumble from people getting too high, as drugs would be less available and less profitable under legalization. They would become boring.

Yelling fire in a theatre infringes upon other peoples peace, and therefore should get you kicked out. But its just speech, and should not be illegal.

I'm of the 'fruits and vegetables' mindset as well. Cannabis should be regulated as other products made for human consumption are: testing and inspection at every stage of production, strict controls on chemicals and additives, honesty-in-labeling requirements, unannounced inspections at retail sales locations. Like restaurants and other businesses there should be local and state licensing. Like restaurants, MMCs that sell contaminated cannabis should be warned, fined, and eventually permanently closed. Like produce, only commercial products should be regulated. (No regulation for non-commercial growers.)

However, I realize that MMJ is following a different regulatory pathway, closer to that of pharmaceutical regulation than food. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think we'll see a shift when it is re-legalized.

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Originally Posted by copobo

just because it's 'medical' marijuana doesn't change the nature of it being cannabis. the regulation is all about the money, not safety.

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But observation isn't how we approve any other form of state recognized medicine. It seems like a few of you are compartmentalizing cannabis and how it should be treated, and I suppose that's understandable. It's a plant we love and it's unfairly demonized.

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Originally Posted by Colodonmed

I wonder how many patients are going to leave the registry with these new proposals? If what I read is right, the patients picture, transactions including the amount of medicine purchased and the frequency of purchases will be captured on video and also entered into the database, I doubt if many patients will be willing to put their private lives under such scrutiny. I bet we see a lot more lobbying by these centers to make this a more patient friendly system or they will probably end up all shutting down. Hmm, I wonder

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Again this is all part of the plan (To shut down 90% of the shops that were open back then, 2009) and this is just some more sweeping up for them, they let you think they over looked this or that. But as you see as soon as they noticed another way to make it more difficult and just not worth the cost and hassle to do business for centers they pull something out of their hats to make it so.
This is the worst infringement yet on the State Constitution and amendment 20 as written in 2000. almost 3/4 of that amendment talks about the registry and the need for it's confidentiality and how to enact this and ensure that it was and to talk about penalties for violating that confidentiality.
This is the oppositions "Holy Grail" (folks like Suthers, Romer and such) if they are able to pull this off the program (MMJ caregiver/patient program through the Health Dept.) is effectively destroyed, you constitutional right that was fought so hard for back in the 90's.
It most definitely takes out most of the Centers! remember folks we are competing over customers that are registered which right now makes up 2% of the States Population, for the centers to survive this percentage must increase. Even something as little as a .5 % drop in registry patients would take out many more shops. again seems to all be part of their plan.
(I'll take off my tin foil hat now and sign off):mad::wtf::wtf:

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Originally Posted by copobo

editorial from: Proper pot rules and an overreach - Boulder Daily Camera

"Nonsense: The Colorado Department of Revenue`s Medical Marijuana Advisory Board has included in its proposal for regulations an idea to have the entire registry of medical marijuana users available to law enforcement 24/7. Considering that marijuana use is still illegal under federal law, we urge the state to dump this suggestion. We`re not talking about people in custody, someone who has crashed their car, or people who have been caught with marijuana who need to have the legality of their usage checked with the state: We`re talking about everyone. This flies in the face of the intent of the constitutional law. Law-abiding Coloradans are entitled to keep their health information private."

unfortunately they also like the DUI one. go make comment!

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I couldn't agree more!:stoned:

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Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter

But if this is truly medical marijuana, shouldn't it be tracked like any other medication? We don't allow people to make pharmaceuticals in their homes and distribute them, regardless of how safe they are.

If you're talking about legalization, I think you make a fair point. I just feel like at this point we're muddling the two.



I disagree with you on stimulating growth, but let's turn the law of unintended consequences on it's head. If you remove marijuana from the black market, do we see a rise in illicit, highly addictive drugs? An increase in border violence as cartels struggle to retain power? I certainly wouldn't use either of these as arguments against legalization, anymore than say... a repeal of DADT may make some people uncomfortable, because it's the right thing to do. Unintended consequences are funny like that, though.

Should the government allow use of other relatively harmless substances, like LSD or mushrooms? MDMA? Do they have the right to tell you to wear your seatbelt? That you can't yell fire in a movie theater?

Just trying to get some bearings on where you're coming from.

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Yes, I believe that ALL drugs should be legal for any adult without a prescription. The consequences of their illegality are just too much worse for society as a whole than if they are legal to justify their prohibition, especially in light of the ineffectiveness of prohibition at keeping substances out of peoples hands. That is as a matter of policy. As a matter of morality, I believe it is absolutely immoral to attempt to enforce through violence or the threat thereof, which is government's only tool, my ideas or anyone else's about what someone else should put in their body. Unlike ds0110, I don't believe it should be subsidized though.

As to yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, that is merely an example given by Oliver Wendell Holmes as to when the Government is justified in punishing speech even in light of the first amendment. That exception to "freedom of speech" was justified because of the danger to the rest of the people in the theatre from the resulting stampede of people trying to get out. My right to throw a punch without punishment ends at the tip of your nose.

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Originally Posted by GratefulMeds

Again this is all part of the plan (To shut down 90% of the shops that were open back then, 2009)

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I am glad at least one MMC can see this. What is sad is that people are pouring their life savings into this business are will be crushed by the state.

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Originally Posted by canaguy27

I am glad at least one MMC can see this. What is sad is that people are pouring their life savings into this business are will be crushed by the state.

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I think they can see it.

They are in hopes that maybe most of the posters here are the fringe :wtf: time will tell

Most dont want MMCs to close but from what Ive seen it does not look good.People will find any way they can to skirt around 1284 and that will mean letting MMCs die

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Originally Posted by porone

Most dont want MMCs to close but from what Ive seen it does not look good.

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The market effect alone is killing most of them.

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Originally Posted by canaguy27

The market effect alone is killing most of them.

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That's right they create an environment where the margins are so low, the risk/ reward ratio doesn't look so good anymore, and it will be hard for many to survive just on the fact that margins are so low and the upfront and operating cost have become so high and restrictive.:wtf:

My friend in the Springs saw a shop with $100 ounces:icon506:

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Originally Posted by canaguy27

My friend in the Springs saw a shop with $100 ounces:icon506:

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Did they have to break apart the MexiBrick and sort out the seeds ? :)

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Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ

Did they have to break apart the MexiBrick and sort out the seeds ? :)

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Not at all. He said the quality was a decent B grade.

cali outdoor is pretty cheap for what it is.