Safety, inspection, and standards protect consumers too.Quote:
This serves no purpose other than to protect select dispensaries, and it has no business being in this bill.
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Safety, inspection, and standards protect consumers too.Quote:
This serves no purpose other than to protect select dispensaries, and it has no business being in this bill.
Whats next... regulating cannabanoid profiles? I can already hear them crying how the cannabis we have is only intended to get you "high" and under new law dispensaries can only dispense cannabis with THC levels under 10%Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
I hate to say it buy I think your likely correct. Our government loves to stick their noses where they don't belong. Plus many years ago, when they were studying our beloved plant. My step grandfather leased a chunk of his Kentucky horse farm to the government to grow "test" MJ. They restricted their own grow-able plants to 3.5% strains(at least it's what they told him!:D). However if even slightly true, you know it's likely to come up. They limited it before, why not again. Plus I think Mexican brick would still qualify.:wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoCareMMJ
Glad to hear you didn't join that lobby too! I never thought you did, just good to hear it!:thumbsup:
As for my concerns I'd like to re-aim my statements from before a little.
Lets say,.. some 50 year old church going women gets cancer(god forbid). Anyway her son, after a round of Chemo, introduces her to MMJ. She finds it's relief soothing. So she gets her recomendation.
Now, with a green thumb, three plants, and her knowledgeable son. She grows three large productive plants. Without any idea as to how much she'll actually end up with, she finishes strong! Right on Grandma!! :thumbsup:
So after drying, she finds she has twenty ounces. Yet she's only allowed two!:wtf4:
What can she LEGALLY do with the excess, under this new law??
She has NEVER broken the law as far as she is concerned, she has no pot head friends to give or sell it to, and now under the new law(if passed) she can't even sell it to the stores AUTHORIZED to sell the stuff!
If she's caught with it she gets to be extra tax income to the government and private prisons too!
This is the same part of this law that will screw all the small guys.
Sure am glad this bill is here, to protect the patients! Way to go!!
I don't think that would be a good idea, but you must admit that in every other medicine the levels of active ingredients are regulated, and those levels are required to be on the label. When I take two Tylenol, I know I'm getting 1000 mg of acetaminophen. I wish I knew the same about the medicine I buy from dispensaries.
Cannibanoids(<-sp??) consist of over 300 chemicals, from those, during heating, there is a chemical reaction which converts those 300+ interacting chemicals into well over 2000+ different chemicals. Each strain has a differing signature of cannibinoids, which can cause differing effects. Because it is a VERY complex composure of chemicals, composed of and created by ONLY a plants naturally produced chemicals reacting with each other. It has never been correctly, synthetically reproduced.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
THUS, even with MASSIVE, expensive studies done my MANY government agencies and college labs. They still can't tell you exactly what is in your MMJ. They can get some information, and THC percentages. However when you get down to brass tax. They can not tell you what your getting, or how, or why, it'll effect you.
It is currently estimated that many of our "better" strains can achieve 18-30%(might just be a claim at 30%:D). However even if 18% is what I often buy. I do not want to be limited to 10%!:mad:
If we give an inch they WILL take a mile. So, I believe we need to stop this over regulation before they force it (and more) down our throats.
I should have added. MOST of our legal drugs DO NOT say what is contained in them. They have the product name and the mg dosage per pill. However most of those drugs (prescribed by doctors answering to drug companies) have rarely, barely, or incorrectly been tested. They are composed of who knows what? Plus MANY often have side effects worse then the condition it MIGHT cure.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
MJ has been growing and been smoked by BILLIONS of people over millennia. Thus far, not one proven death, and side effects are temporary!
Take that Clairion!! :D
Yeah.. so what would be wrong with a law that says dispensaries must have their medicine tested by a lab for THC content and certified free of pests and mold? What would be wrong with the Division of Weights and measures coming in and checking their scales for honesty, as they do in every other business that sells by weight? All regulation has costs and benefits; we should concentrate on choosing the right regulations rather than refuse to "give them an inch." In my opinion, the right regulations are those that benefit the consumer with more knowledge, protect the consumer from poisons and impurities, and prevent a retailer from misrepresenting his product or lying to his customers.
I think that a law, forcing a dispensary to have it tested, is wrong! However I also think if a dispensary WANTS to do that, they should. If people want that, they would vote with their dollar. By going to that dispensary. If everyone wanted that, all the other dispensaries would be forced through customer pressure to do it. However forcing people to conform to your desires is not right. So forcing me to spend money on a service I don't want is also wrong. (see anti-forced federal health care suit filed last week by 13 states. It's against the 10th constitutional amendment!)Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
Those same people would also get to pay an extra fee to have that service provided BTW:thumbsup:.
just an fyi those products are legal on the fed lvl as well so...:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
also just because it's a law does'nt mean it's right....
wow,you are right it is regulated you know why? because too much aceteminophen will KILL YOU.i know you want to be all knowing but plz quit trying to mix apples and oranges here.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
and all these new regulations will help lower prices how? most expect all these meds to be free and whine and moan about it enough already.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
We are already headed this way without government getting involved in quality. As supply increases, the consumer will look for herb certified by reputable labs. Most dispensaries know what they are looking for when they buy from vendors, and those that don't won't be around long.Quote:
Yeah.. so what would be wrong with a law that says dispensaries must have their medicine tested by a lab for THC content and certified free of pests and mold? What would be wrong with the Division of Weights and measures coming in and checking their scales for honesty, as they do in every other business that sells by weight? All regulation has costs and benefits; we should concentrate on choosing the right regulations rather than refuse to "give them an inch." In my opinion, the right regulations are those that benefit the consumer with more knowledge, protect the consumer from poisons and impurities, and prevent a retailer from misrepresenting his product or lying to his customers.
Check the scales. sure. why not.
Is there any level of regulation you'd favor, Palerider? What about the simple provision in 1284 that makes it illegal for a dispensary to lie to a customer? Good idea, bad idea, what?
without the liberal sarcasim,i'll go on to say if that is in the bill i would not agree to it being a good thing.plz explain in what context the lie would be?Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
as im sure you are well aware and also since you seem to insist on comparing mmj law with other in place laws.you then know that there are already laws in place for false advertising.if thats the route you were trying to take this?
also without any"ANY"laws in place in the nation on a person lying.the context of the ?? was in the field of false advertising am i correct?
i can't help to think you are just trying to be clever here.but either way im sure no matter what my answer would be you would not agree....
but im sure the way you asked the ? and the way you talk to people on here in that look down you're nose kindda way.you were implying that im some crazy loon that is below anything that could make sense to you.
i did'nt know mmj law was a venue to create whole new laws to control people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
That service isnt cheap by far. They charge $85 per sample, per test. I sometimes have anywhere between 5-15 new strains a week, sometimes more. Thats thousands of dollars thats going to have to be recouped on top of additional overhead costs. Most my patients know my medicine, and know the quality so I really dont hear many asking about testing our medicine.
Well, the provision is simple. It just outlaws misrepresentation and other unfair business practices. If you need me to name examples, here's some unfair business practices as they apply to commercial marijuana: passing off one medicine as another, causing confusion as to the source of a medicine, claiming medicine to have benefits it does not (a disgusting and common practice, lying to the sick), misrepresenting the quality or grade of medicine, disparaging the goods or services of other vendors, or anything else that creates confusion or misunderstanding with the intention of selling a product.Quote:
Originally Posted by palerider
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
HAHAHAH really!?!? How is a law going to stop people from renaming product? Certain strains may help people while they do not help others. That is really no misrepresentation. Like they say different strains - different brains...and what may be good strain to one may not be to another, whats the other saying... "another man's trash is another man's treasure" ? I have had herb that I extremely did not care for, and I had patients tell me it was some of the best medicine they have ever tried.
I honestly think patients are the best regulation. They will ultimately decide who stays and who goes.:jointsmile:
If you were selling hay, it would have to be certified pest-free. Amazing how those hay farmers manage to stay in business, eh? Snark aside, point taken. Potency is not something I care that much about in terms of regulation; other things, like pests and mold and chemical residue, have no place in medicine. Rather than have every new jar assayed (adding to the cost), maybe it would be enough to have regular, unannounced inspections for both sanitary conditions and also to test the medicine for impurities and poisons. There's probably other less-intrusive ways to check compliance as well that might be friendlier to the bottom line and still protect consumers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoCareMMJ
Talk to a lawyer, but I don't see why renaming would be a problem, so long as it doesn't misrepresent the product. Feel free to rename a pack of local seeds "Denver Superbomb" but please don't call it "Sensi Seeds Jack Flash #5 (Feminized)" and charge a patient $200 unless it really is the goods.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoCareMMJ
Misrepresentation is broader, though: for example, under this regulation you might no longer be able to legally claim medicine was organic simply because it's dirt grown, or claim medicine was grown in Breckenridge when it came from Denver. I don't know what the regulations will look like when they come.
EDIT 9AM: In no way am I suggesting CoCaMMJ or his shop does any of these things. I've never been there. This is just a chat.
Does it matter where it was grown? Really does it make the slightest difference if it came from a suburb in denver or a cabin in breck???Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
As to Organic....it is just a happy-word. Just because some is grown organicly does not make it better. I have sampled amazing strains that were not grown in organic fashion.
Dispensaries cannot even sell seeds from most breeders because we cannot import them (CO LAW).
I understand you just want a better experience overall from dispensaries towards patients, and I have no qualms with that. But think of it like a restaurant, the places that provide less than quality meals or service will take a back seat to those that do provide a higher level of quality and service.
If you dont like the way your being treated, tell them, if they dont make it better, don't go back to their shop anymore. If they lose enough patients they will work towards making a positive change in their business model, or they will close doors and look for opportunities elsewhere. Its win/win.
We really dont need governement sticking their dirty finger in our cake mix. There is already enough obstacles to overcome in this downtraught economy, why are you hasseling the one industry that is creating thousands of jobs and millions of dollars in tax revenue...?
I have been following this thread in silence, but here at home I am biting my tongue. This bill will effect each and every one of us, perhaps in different ways, but we all will feel it's effects.
I am in favor of regulation, although limited. A dispensary should be regulated like any other business. Since a dispensary's customer base is restricted, it should be regulated to make sure only those "allowed" are sold to. This is already in place. It should be regulated that a dispensary is clean, safe, and are dispensing what they claim. Much of this is in place, but some is subjective. If they claim to be selling Medical Marijuana, then it should not be the so-called legal bud. I have not seen this practice but I have heard a few concerns. It should be regulated so that a dispensary, like any other business, pays proper sales/income taxes, reports sales tax correctly, and is properly licensed (the Denver bureaucracy and cost seems excessive to me).
I have mixed feeling about zoning, and it looks like its going to extremes. Medical Marijuana is a legitimate business and should be treated as such. If the community is zone for residential only, that means MMJ as well. Banning MMJ dispensaries makes no sense to me. How and why are gentlemen's clubs, payday loans, and pawn shops better for a community than a dispensary. I really do not see the logic in this.
As far as quality, mold, pests, taste, and smell....well, I think the consumer will weed(ha ha) all of that out. If I found mold in anything I purchased (weed, produce etc), I would offer the place I got it from the opportunity to correct the issue. I would expect replacement of the product or a cash refund, an apology, and the assurance they would do everything in their power not to have it happen again (not purchase from that vendor perhaps). It anything like that happens again, it would be the last time they got my money and I would be letting as many people know as possible to give them warning.
I certainly do not want the Federal Government to be involved in quality control of my medical marijuana. With the horrors committed by the FDAs in-aptitude I have little or no confidence that they would do better with something like MMJ. No reason for me to believe that the state would do any better in quality control.
Like everyone else, this is my opinion. It concerns me that as a community we can not get together and decide what is best for us. It is going to make it very hard to get lawmakers on our side when we do not really know what we want/need. Unfortunately it will come down to who has the most money, like everything political in the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenster
^^^ I think alot of patients feel the same as you reenstar. In fact it seems only a very select minority are in favor of all the ridiculous regulations.
To some people it does; I prefer local produce and local farmers. I think this is less of an issue with medicine than with food, though. Why not just simply tell the truth if it doesn't make the slightest difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoCareMMJ
I disagree entirely. If you tell me a product is organic, then it should be produced without synthetic pesticides or hormones. I realize it's used in a different context with regard to MJ, but it's deceptive and needs to stop. Organic may be just a happy word to you, but it has a very specific meaning to the rest of the world. Again... why not just give the consumers the whole story if it's no big deal?Quote:
As to Organic....it is just a happy-word. Just because some is grown organicly does not make it better. I have sampled amazing strains that were not grown in organic fashion.
I think a restaurant is a good example and analogy. I think your shop should be regularly inspected by the health department, like restaurants. Like restaurants, I think the ratings should be public record so your customers can see if you're following the law. Like restaurant licensing, you should have to pass a criminal background check when applying for a license. Like a restaurant, you should pay taxes. Like restaurants, if you sell an impure or harmful product you should be shut down. I'd be fine with dispensaries being treated like restaurants, but I doubt you would. In short, I want dispensaries to be safe, ubiquitous and profitable, like restaurants.Quote:
But think of it like a restaurant, the places that provide less than quality meals or service will take a back seat to those that do provide a higher level of quality and service.
It is already state law that stops out of state growers from importing to Colorado. So, everything you get IS local already without added regulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
Most local growers already take great issue with NOT using the things you mentioned. Most nutes people buy locally for hydro are not organic. They are all the specific minerals in exact proportion to what our plant likes. However BEING minerals, makes them inorganic. NONE of us ever wants to use chemicals for insect control. But sometimes we have no choice. but most try to stick to organic methods like Neem or Rosemary oils.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
However unless your eating ALL organic (NON GM) food, drinking only the best filtered water, using only organic soap, have a shower filter and wear a filter mask. Your already SLATHERED is industrial waste! 90% of popular bar soap is made with sodium and petroleum byproducts! MOST Americans eat more then 50% genetically modified food, slathered in chemicals(all of which is fully endorsed by our government, under a guise of "Safety"). Thus ALSO adding excess cost to our food supply!
My father makes his living off the restaurant industry. Since 1971 he has sold refrigeration, ice cream equipment, and other such required things for a restaurant to operate.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
However, over the last 15 years he has barely sold ANY new equipment. The company once thriving is now a cubby in an industrial complex.
My father has survived ALL these years reselling the same equipment. buying it back a year-ish later at auction. Then cleaning it and selling it to the next idiot who wants to own a restaurant or ice cream shop. Then he just sit back and waits to buy it back for 20-50% what he sold it for AGAIN! He's resold some pieces 10-12 times.
His life dream, when I was a kid, was having a restaurant. However I asked him this last Christmas about it. He said, anyone stupid enough to start a restaurant, in our current economics was doomed to over regulation, taxation, and eventual failure. Thus he was sticking with what he's already doing.
Point is,.. Restaurants don't make money very often. Due MOSTLY to over regulation, taxation and a lousy economy created ALSO by our government.
Plus they often serve food which is extremely processed, often loaded with chemicals and fully endorsed (AGAIN) by our government.
I can't speak for other people, but personally, I only buy organic food at the grocery store. The way that pesticide usage on food crops is regulated is sad, pesticide residue on non-organic (and even some organic) foods is excessive IMO.
With that said, I frequently do not grow "organic" mmj, although sometimes I do. I'm concerned about pesticide residue, and potentially radioactive isotope residue. That being said, organic fertilizers sometimes contain higher levels of heavy metals or other dangerous components than carefully manufactured, high-quality chemical fertilizers.
In other words, my MMJ is not organic because I'm happy to use chemical fertilizers; the pesticides and other chemicals used, especially systemic ones, are what I'm concerned with.
:wtf:
I prefer to support local growers and businesses, rather than send my money to the Front Range. It's true that the FR produces most of the MMJ in the state, but given the choice, I'd like to keep it local. I always ask where my medicine is grown, and the responses I've gotten run the gamut from straightforward to evasive. I also suspect there's a good bit of importation from California, even though it's against the law. Possibly, stricter scrutiny is needed to prevent importation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancefish
Keep in mind, we're not really talking about your average hobby grower here, who takes immense pride in clean, healthy plants. This bill only addresses commercial dispensary growers who sell retail for profit. Pesticides increase yield and profit. I think it's fine for dispensaries to use them, but it's not fine to use them and then lie to a customer about it. Total honesty regarding every product sold should be the law.Quote:
Most local growers already take great issue with NOT using the things you mentioned. Most nutes people buy locally for hydro are not organic. They are all the specific minerals in exact proportion to what our plant likes. However BEING minerals, makes them inorganic. NONE of us ever wants to use chemicals for insect control. But sometimes we have no choice. but most try to stick to organic methods like Neem or Rosemary oils.
Take a step back and consider the position for a moment: Why should dispensaries not have to follow the fair trade practices that are STANDARD PROCEDURE for every other kind of business in the state, and in the country? Why should it be illegal for a doctor to tell a patient he can cure inoperable cancer, but perfectly legal for a dispensary to tell the same dying patient anything they want? Why should we allow felons to place themselves in positions of trust over the sickest members of our community? Why should dispensaries be excused from following health and safety rules? Why should dispensaries operate without oversight from a licensing authority when every other business in the state must comply? The question we should be asking ourselves isn't what level of regulation would be ideal, but what level of regulation is the bare minimum that will allow dispensaries to operate safely, in the same manner as other businesses around the state.
well then i guess i answered you're ?? then.as you are aware we already have laws dealing with those issues.besides that word of mouth spreads pretty quick and if a biz misleads people it won't be long b4 they are out of biz.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
110% agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoCareMMJ
Who exactly is going to enforce the law in the absence of a state licensing authority? The Justice League? It's stupid to believe dispensary operators will fully comply in the absence of an enforcing authority. Since the thread regards a specific bill, it's germane to quote the text. Here's the list of duties the bill calls for the state licensing authority to assume:Quote:
Originally Posted by palerider7777
-granting or refusing licenses
-publicly listen to complaints against licensees
-publicly hear appeals of license denials
-develop paper forms, cards and licenses
-prepare an annual budgetary report for the Governor. (pursuant to state law)
-promulgating rules
That last one is the big one, hint hint. The bill goes on to delineate the kinds of rules the licensing authority may create:
-compliance and enforcement of other rules specifically in this bill
-specifying duties for employees and officers of the state licensing authority
-instructions for local licensing authorities
-requirements for inspection and investigation
-creation of penalties for noncompliance
-prohibition of misrepresentation
-prohibition of unfair business practices
-control of information and product displays
-development of individual identification cards for MMC employees, including criminal background checks and fingerprint
-proper security requirements for dispensaries / their grow sites
-regulation of storage and transportation of MMJ
-sanitary requirements for dispensaries
-which kinds of picture identification are acceptable
-labeling standards
-record keeping
-reporting of monthly sales tax payments
-authorization for revenue Dept. to enforce sales and income tax collection
-signage rules, including dimensions and colors
-creation of a schedule of penalties and citations
-days and hours of operation
*Shrug* There's not a single provision in that second list that isn't applied broadly, across a variety of businesses and industries in the state. Maybe that's not right, and we shouldn't require so much, but I think that's sort of a larger topic. There's some dumb provisions left in this bill, but the stuff you're currently complaining about, Palerider, is innocuous and even beneficial, IMO.
I do choose to eat ALL organic (non gmo) food, drink only the best filtered water, use only organic soap and body products, and have a shower filter. I do not wear a filter mask and based on what I have read believe that at this point that is not necessary for where I live, although I can't say that I would be even if it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancefish
The first four items are easily enough achieved with some extra effort and undoubtedly a bit more cash (although it's not as expensive as it was... apx. 25-40% of my organic food is acquired from bulk retailers) A shower filtration costs $50 and is good for 6-12 months depending on use. Pure water can be acquired for another $60 (entry level) investment and some assembly or from sources in the front range. Eldorado Springs water is great and can be filled at the source for $1.25 for 5 gallons. Organic body products can be made at home with a little bit of training, and living in the FR there are plenty of places to learn with like minded individuals.
So, expecting to get an organic MMJ product that was not exposed to any harsh pesticides and grown in accordance with organic farming practices isn't that big of a stretch.
If that's what dispensary's are marketing a medicine as then that's what it should be through and through.
tangent: Organic MJ is a rule I've never stuck to, although I also buy only organic food and filter my water. I've both grown and [frequently] bought conventional pot. We are lucky to be approaching a time when marijuana marketing is transparent enough that people will be able to smoke only organic marijuana, should they choose.
HB1284 Senate Vote on Wednesday
The full state Senate will have its first debate and vote on HB1284
tomorrow morning on the floor of the Senate. Public comment will not be
taken, but you can listen to the debate online at:
ColoradoChannel.net Homepage
Click here to contact your Senators:
Cannabis Therapy Institutue - Medical Cannabis (Marijuana) Research, Education and Advocacy in Colorado
CALL
Senate Offices: (303) 866-2316
Below is an Action Alert from medical marijuana attorney Danyel S. Joffe on
the threat for federal prosecution that HB1284 will cause for dispensaries.
DONATE to CTI to support our continued mission of cannabis education,
research and advocacy.
Cannabis Therapy Institutue - Medical Cannabis (Marijuana) Research, Education and Advocacy in Colorado
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Medical Marijuana Action Alert Vol 15
Danyel S. Joffe
[email protected]
303-757-6572
May 04, 2010
-----------------------------------------------------------------
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES
-----------------------------------------------------------------
HB10-1284 states that all Medical Marijuana Centers must grow at least 70%
of their own Cannabis.
For many Centers this will require growing over 100 plants. This is
significant because the DEA isn't really interested in busting operations
growing less than 100 plants because the penalty is usually probation.
However, grow over 100 plants and there is a five-year mandatory minimum
prison sentence.
Thus, it isn't worth the effort to bust a grower with 75 plants. But hit
the 100 level and the stakes grow significantly. This makes it worthy of
DEA attention.
If you have heard rumors about the 100 plant limit, this is why.
This is where the rule of unintended consequences comes into play. By
prohibiting Medical Marijuana Centers from buying no more than 30% of their
product from other sources, they must grow 70% of their own Cannabis.
Thus, Centers face going over the 100 plant limit and becoming subject to
Federal Interest.
Based on my research, Federal Judges in California don't seem to care if
the Cannabis is being grown for medical marijuana. Go over 100 plants and
get hammered. The same will probably be true in Colorado.
The Colorado Bill will force Medical Marijuana Centers to grow more than
100 plants, or face not having enough product. This is a classic Catch 22.
To comply with State Law and keep your license, you are forced to commit a
significantly more serious Federal Felony.
This requirement appears to be an unintended consequence of the
legislation. Please Let Your Legislators Know.
You must write your State Representative and Senator and ask them to drop
the 70/30 rule. Tell them to look at page 36, line 14-20. Also known as
C.R.S. 12-43.3-402(4).
Go to COMaps: Find Your Elected District and type in your home
address. It will give you information on how to contact your State
Representative and State Senator.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Joffe Law Firm's website for previous of the Medical Marijuana
Action Alerts:
Medical Marijuana
:thumbsup:
You know what really gets me is the very second you mention hydro to some they cringe and say " I only smoke organic dirt grown", well my response is this, there are multiple levels of hydro, one being recirculating deep water culture feeding directly from a fish tank using only fish emulsion water, is that not organic? I myself use a recirc DWC system and Advance Organic nutes, so is this organic or hydro or could it possibly be both? In my recent research I have found material of the Chinese and Japanese using hydroponic style outdoor grow methods for hundreds of years. Hmmmmmmm, something to think about. I was also told recently by a lawyer that claiming and labeling organic is a legal term regulated by the federal gov., well if that is true are disp. claiming organic opening themselves up for some kind of trouble, do not knowQuote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
it makes me laugh lmao everything is organic we are organic,oil is organic,the earth is organic. what comes down to being labeled organic and non organic is a very fine line.a few micro amounts of trace metals can be the diffrence between organic and non.so let people believe what they think they know....Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonzinc
Quote:
Originally Posted by throatstick
I invented synthetic dirt about 30 years ago and I have been slowly but surely introducing it to the biosphere to the point that it has adulterated all dirt on earth.....except for 100,000,000 cubic yards which I have sequestered in a vault in Switzerland. this is the last organic dirt on earth and it is available for a price.
:D
i want in on that...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by puntacometa
F U C K