WT ..is moving in multi-directions...:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
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WT ..is moving in multi-directions...:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
heh...thanks DP!...lol
Oldmac- I am a believer of both! Mole-asses or Succanant!
good vibes
whats up WEEZ!!!!
In short, rustlers!:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango
For details; http://boards.cannabis.com/games-arc...ner-chess.html
In long, all kine sing.:thumbsup:
Got 2 new puppies, small kine.
They'd be snacks for my 6 stone moose.
Alarm just arrived by Fedex,:cool: gotta go read the manual.
Aloha
Weez
Thought I'd update what I got going on. I ran a second batch wo/UVb again, but turned on the UVb supplemental lighting at week 6 of flower (last week on 9/23). In less then a week trichomes have gone from all clear to almost all cloudy. You can still find some clear but not many.
If anyone remembers my last run I never got to amber tric's even at 9 weeks. The White Rhino I'm running usually finishes in 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 weeks, so the addition of UVb at week 6 has made a major difference all ready in "ripening" the current crop.
I need to find a cheap UV light meter so I can start to quantify the amounts of UVb being used. Also, I'm trying to figure out how to do a UVb experiment during vegative growth. I may try something with the Pro-mix grow once I see what we have going on there after the next run is done.:)
oldmac,
I've been following this thread since the beginning with interest, but not a whole lot to add. I'm not sure I have anything real to add yet, either.
The thing is, I'm not sure that it reall neccesary for the trichs to turn amber. You saw my humble bagseed grow. I never saw more than one or two amer trichs, but that stuff was mature and ripe, for sure. Are you sure it's not jut that we're used to determining ripeness that way and it atually is a signal for THC degradation.
I, too, remember all the old growers tales about how important UV is to the growth and flowering. The only proper way would be a quantitve assay, which is most likely not available to us. Still an open mind here, but nothing has been proven yet either way.
BTW, I like that aero setupon your other thread. If God grants me time enough for another grow I might even "go there".
[ exit stage left with a dark, wicked "muhahaha! echoing in the the distance ]
AS always... er...
M.P.
Hey MerryPrankstr,
Just adding your thoughts are good enough. I think I proved, at least to myself, that UVb does not add to trichome production. I was of the opinion based on the "plant protecting itself" myth that UVb would add trics and that ain't so. I got a glimpse of that last year growing a mmj designed for cancer patients we nicknamed "apricot". When I got plant cuttings from a fellow in the midwest he showed and told me there are no Trichomes on the leaves and only moderate amounts on the buds. All I could think is "wait till I grow these, you'll see trics..." and no matter what I did, no matter what UVb I threw at them they stayed true to the mom. This was the first stuff I ever grew that we threw away the trimmings because there was nothing to get kief from.
As to ripeness, UVb has a definite influence on trichome finishing. If it means one week less to get to what I look for in this strain (25% amber) then it is worth it to me, time is money. The other thing I noticed was a lack of smell or aroma when not using UVb, apparently for a flower to smell like a flower it needs some UVb.
OT: not sure what health problems you're battling, but keep fighting. I met my housemate Tonto when he was in hospice care and told he had 2 weeks, that was 12 years ago. Hope you get better, I want to see you try some fog growing.:D
OM: When inspecting the harvested buds, did you happen to check the undersides of the leaves for trichomes? Just curious, b'cuz when I was running the UV in flower, it seemed to 'unlock' the flood gates with trichs on the undersides. (indica dom) Wanted to check this on my sativa doms this winter, but didn't get a chance. Usually I'll see a few, but not many. Fairly packed undersides are not a 'normal' trait for this strain, so am curious of other's results as well...
Hi oldmac,
Thanks for walking me through the methodolgy of your experimentation. It seems well founded to me, FWIW (LOL).
I'll keep an eye on this thread.
BYW I purchased some "UV" LEDs some time ago. They make credit card markings, etc visible to the naked eye and came with a warning about eye protection. Are these actual UV LEDs or smoke and mirrors.
Thanks for the OT uplifting info. I haven't given up but am a 3rd time loser with the big "C". Not giving up, but a realist. Maybe yes, maybe no.
Still love that aero, though. :)
Later
M.P.
Rusty; When I ran the first experiment wo/UVb I expected less trichome production everywhere, but did not see any less then before. The white rhino puts tric's everywhere; stems, branches, under side of leaves and even tric's trying to grow on top of other tric's on top of the leaves. That just did not change wo/UVb. Just one strain tho, so it may not hold true for others. That's the porblem with limited experiments. Soon I'm going to change to running batches of PPP, and I'll repeat the experiment with them. :)
Hey M.P.;
While I wish this was more of a scientific experiment, I can only do observational evaluations. As I just mentioned to Rusty, I've only dealt with one strain here and look forward to reapeating it with other strains, so "strain dependent" could still be a factor.
LEDs are available in UV, in fact since LEDs have such narrow wavelenghts you can find UVa, UVb and UVc LEDs. The TI's Pro-Bloom has some UVb diodes, that's the reason I want to get a UV light meter. I'd like to see how much they put out vs. the reptile lights I use to supplement my personal grow. I get the feeling I'm throwing more UVb power then is necessary.
OT; As you probably know I provide mmj thru a cancer & hospice group, too many from the first group I see again in the second group. But there are cases like Tonto, stage 4 for so many years yet like he says "not my time yet" when I ask him how he feels. Stay strong, my thoughts are with you.
:thumbsup:
Thanks for the info on the uv LEDs.
In that case I have a box of a dozen PAR 38 uvB lamps that screw into standard Edison sockets. When the time comes I hope to more properly ripen my curreny grow if it doesn't completely fill the area (LOL).
OT: Thanks again and :thumbsup:
Forever on the bus....
M.P.
Qiuck update. Yesterday (Oct 7th) I harvested this last run, it was 8 weeks exact. Got to abt 15-20% amber rest cloudy abt where I like this strain.
UVb has it's most profound influence on the maturing of the trichomes. Just using it for the last 2 weeks made a BIG difference in how fast and even getting to an "amber alert" stage. Last run even at 9 weeks I had no amber. No doubt it would be very easy to quickly over do the ripeness when using UVb.
This next run I will use the UVb during the entire flower period, just like I did before the experiments, to get back to my standard. I also need to get a weight from the last go round to see if only 2 weeks restores the wgt lost wo/UVb.
:)
You found the speed... Awsome!!!
If it's speed you want.. You should try Clear Halogen INC Bulbs. Try running them in the same manner you are currently running your UVB bulbs. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the Halogen INC bulbs results. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Yup!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
Now we're working on timing it's application for maximum effect.
At least I am.
OM's gonna irradiate the entire bloom period.
:cool::weedpoke:
No point duplicating, "his words have iron"!
I'm gonna run up the trichs with 660nm. and push for a "carpet of caps all cloudy".:D:thumbsup:
Then I'm gonna "Tan" 'em with varying lengths of sunlight to see if that color change is cosmetic, or more than cosmetic:stoned:.
Last batches are still curing.
Howzit goin' on Mars?
Aloha.
Weeze
Weez... On mars it seems one can seriously increase the speed that's fo sure. But it's the increase in medical properties and flavor that seems to be the real attraction of mars. By manipulating the PAL and PAD time factors my uncle and I have been able to increase our current setup to aprx x 2 .. Let me explain....We were getting aprx somewhere around 15% (medical properties) on a strain that said 22% on the package. Now we are getting every bit of 30% with that strain....Believe it or not.... it's too strong for my uncle at 30%...So one of the ways we are working on solving this dilemma is by using different strains that are rated at aprx 10%-13% (medical properties) on the package and whacking it up to aprx 20%. He likes this medical range for his meds. There is also a plus to using these different strains. They yield a lot more meds for him. But just so you know the MASTERS are increasing the % to aprx x 6.. I know it sounds hard to believe that going from medical properties of 10%-20% too aprx 40%-60% with PAL and PAD light manipulation..... but I'm afraid it's true. Plus the speed at witch it's being done will blow your mind fo sure..
Soon my friends soon.. :thumbsup:
Hello All,
Very interesting reading here. I have been researching LED's for a while now and I am getting ready to do a LARGE LED grow.
I am customizing my own 600W LED lights based on the research I have done and there are still a couple of things that I need answers for before I begin.
Can anyone here help me out with this:
I have heard that 660nm Red extends the flowering cycle instead of reducing it. I have heard that it is better to use a combination of 640nm and 630nm instead of 660nm.
I appreciate all input.
"I have heard that 660nm Red extends the flowering cycle instead of reducing it. I have heard that it is better to use a combination of 640nm and 630nm instead of 660nm."
Aloha Shintooo
Hearsay, being what it is, can be misleading.
I don't claim to be an expert, but my experimentation indicates that 660nm.
deep red is the most efficient wavelength for cannabis photosynthesis.
(Actually is 657nm. according to the books.)
If, it does indeed extend the flower cycle, that's a good thing for personal grows.
Allows one to really pack on the resin.
So, might take longer, but medically, it's a net win in Milligrams/Gram of active ingredient.
2 cents, please.
Weeze
I also have read that--in a European forum a while back-- but the author(s) were basing that assumption on charts and graphs and had no actual 660 nm emitters to test. There was also some speculation about 660nm emitters basically lacking "plant-growing energy" compared to 630nm. Again, this was based solely on claimed diode specs, not any real-world experience with 660nm emitters. :wtf:Quote:
I have heard that it is better to use a combination of 640nm and 630nm instead of 660nm.
Shintoooo, if you get a chance, hunt up that data again if you can find it; let us know if it was backed up by any experimentation or if it's the same "according to established charts that we believe to be reliable" kinda assumptions that I read. (I remember it because it caused me some concern with my design. Glad I disregarded it. :thumbsup:)
I've done it side-by-side, and with the strains I tested, 660 won hands down over 630nm for resin production-- which is my area of interest. :D
I'm cornfused about combining 630 and 640 nm reds. You could probably label a lot of emitters either way. (Leds emit a (narrow) bandwidth; not just the "named" frequency, of course.) What reds are you considering @ 640nm?
600W is a formidable complement of leds. You could integrate both frequencies (660 and 630) into different coverage areas and test it for yourself. Whatcha building?
Hey dogz, could you steer me to more info or a source for the clear halogen INC bulbs. I saw halogens being used a few years back in a grow that was in Europe I believe, they interested me then and now you made me real curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
Thanks.:)
Mac. If I'm not mistaken.. Licensed med users and caregivers will have access to the info after Halloween 09. Also I think the info will be free to licensed med and caregivers using a 3x3 area or smaller. I will know more info on that soon. So don't quote me.. LOL
As for why I say to use clear INC during you normal light on time is. Clear INC are the most economical way to produce speed (at the current moment). Halogen INC's produces more speed yet. If you goggle the use of INC and growing you will see it's all about the far red. Far red = speed... INC's also serve another purpose for my uncle and I.....manipulation of the time factor...... Unfortunately this is were I would be getting into trademark protected info.. But like I was saying... I thought I read somewhere on this forum that you are a licensed Caregiver... If that's the case. I think you will have access to the Juicy info soon. Remember I said the blue that is part of that UVB bulb is fast. Unfortunate that blue bulb has UVB and IMO is not what you want..
What I would like to see you do is a side by side comparison... Clear halogen vs UVB.
The rule of thumb for clear INC's is...3/4 of a watt to every 1 watt used of your normal on light. My uncle and I use 1/2 watt to every 1 watt used of our 400HPS. So basically we use 200 watts of clear halogen inc...Anything over a 1-1 ratio is a waste. We run 40 watts of inc's during the first two weeks of stretch. Then we ramp it up on the third week to 200 watts. We also have tested 6 hours of inc on time 8 hours of inc on time and 10 hours of inc on time. The results just keep getting better. Currently we are on the full 11 1/2 hours of on time with the Halogen inc's.
Stick to your rule of thumb for the use of your UVB bulb
Personally I think you will never go back to the UVB bulb again..:thumbsup:
Hey Dogz,
Thanks for the info. First off I am a caregiver but I am an unlicensed caregiver since I live in a state that does not recognize the medical value of mj. That creates it's own set of problem's for me, but I've been doing this for over 20 years now regardless. Hopefully I can get the info when it comes out somehow, I'd even pay if need be.
I have been using clear red INC as a source of far red 730nm trigger. Not near the ration you are using for the halogens tho. As to testing the clear halogens in place of the UVb I'm using now, it may be possible, I'll start to look into it. It would seem to be worth an experiment, maybe after this run gets done in abt 6+ more weeks.
I will probably have to adapt a little with your rule of thumb for halogen use tho. My personal grow is an LED/T5 hybred and the 420w of LED (& 320w of T5) are really not the same as 420w of HPS, adjustments will have to be made. In a new setup over a aero/fog try I was just getting ready to add my clear red party bulbs, I may look to add halogen instead. But I'm using my 2 TI pro-blooms over the tray and I'm not sure how much I'll need, I will do some thinking about that.
Thanks again for the info and input. Keep on growing- oldmac
Mac...I didn't know you were using red inc's during your day time lighting... Well hell.... All you have to do is get rid of them... Red inc's are great for PAD lighting not so good for PAL lighting (Day time lighting).. Switch them out for the clear halogens I was talking about.. They have way more far red then red inc's do Plus they are over twice as photosynthetic.. Play around with the amount of wattage you use and how long you want them on BUT.. Trust me switch out them red inc's. The more clear halogen inc's you can use in your set up the faster you can get the clock moving (during the day time at least) and the faster you can get the trichs to sparkle like diamonds...LOL Hint, Hint....
Try it..... I think you will be suprised...:thumbsup:
As far as you being a caregiver.. It sucks about the state you live in but my state within the last year made medical user and caregivers legal.. Yes it's great but there seems to be a lot of caregivers now coming out of the woodwork looking to rip patients off. I'm currently a caregiver for two patients and will only teach them how to grow there own at their Home. I believe in the (teach a man to fish and he eats for life) theory.. Yes I know there are patients that can't do it for themselves... That's why the world needs people like yourself.. I commend you my friend.. Personally I can't believe how much gratification I get in helping the two current patients I have. I went to a couple of local companion clubs and met a lot of nice people and a couple not so nice..LOL Did some interviewing and selected two complete strangers that I have not known before and teach them for FREE... I think I found my calling...:thumbsup:
P.S. Yes I think it will be offered to the public for a fee.. I'm just not sure when that will be.. I will nedd to post that when it become avaible..
Sorry I think forgot to say this.... I'm talking about normal screw in style clear Halogen light bulbs. Standard clear inc's work but not as good as the halogens do... Hope to see ya soon on top of what I like to call Snow Cone mountain...
Subscribed!
I'm adding UVB to my own grow as the vented hoods I'm using block all the blue/UVB out. I'll be placing 4 4 foot Reptisun bulbs at least 20" away from the plants & keep them on for 5 hours a day. I got that advice from someone on the forum who had done it before - but it's trial and error with us. I'm anxious to hear your results & see your conclusions. I'm not using the UVBs yet as I'm still in veg (but ill be very soon) you can check out my grow journal. Best of luck to you. :rastasmoke:
I had to jump in this awesome thread as well! UV-B is a hidden element in indoor growing that is a HUGE secret to some consultant growers I have met in person. Anyhow I wanted to get your thoughts on using these because its for a aquarium the site says, BUT.. it is in 460-470 NM... All I am asking is will this work?
Jacks Bargain Bin | Leopard 120W LED Panel | Aquarium Lighting | Jack's Bargain Bin | The Ultimate Bargain Warehouse. Maryland. USA. 21613
Hello SOGMaster,
Those lights will not add any UVb, they fall into the middle of the blue range and at a good point for that. They would work perfectly fine rooting cuttings, starting seedings and for the first few weeks of vegging.:)
For UVb reference, it falls between 280nm-320nm.
Hope that helps.
Hey Dogz,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
I just came across a couple of clear halogen inc's, 100w each with candelabra bases, left over from some experiment many many years ago. I may try to set something up, and use them in place of the T5 desert bulbs I am using now. The two halegens would equal 200w vs the UVb bulbs of 160w, I'm willing to go 40w more to see the top of Snoe Cone mountain. The ultimate test will be if I try it with some cancer weed I've been growing called "apricot". It does not produce trichomes on it's leaves no matter what I've tried with it.
Hi Apollonia,Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonia
Glad you stopped by here. I, like you are about to do, use UVb for a few hours in the middle of the photoperiod and only during flowering. RustyTrichome had gotten the idea from someone he trusted, that the use of UVB should start during flowering. Unfortunitly he could not carry on the experiment for personal reasons. I was just wondering if you would be interested in enlisting with an experiment? We are not doing anything real fancy here, more like with and w/o and simple observations. I've been trying to figure out a way to do it, but since I veg for so short it makes it difficult.
Need not be side to side comparo's can be back to back runs of something(s). Need not start immediately, I know you're busy with your grow start up now, but we will be here for awhile. And it will take a long time, so sometimes we just hang out on the porch.....and watch the grass grow.:)
Oldmac, quit flirting with Appolonia's avatar, you old perv!
What's next? A little UVB exposure the old-fashioned way? :eek:
See if I put any more sunscreen on your.....whatever that was......:wtf:
you can't stop an old dawg from doing anything...:thumbsup:...:glugglug:Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadedHermie
Hey SOGMaster--
How do you get from this:
Sept 7
To this:Quote:
We are now working with a company that has been importing some of the best and most developed lights so far. We already have a few lights and will be posting the pics in another thread soon.. Just wanted to show you guys some of the past pics!!
Here is the new company we purchased lights from
jacksbargainbin.com - jacksbargainbin.com
Oct 16
You know, we can all buy that Chinese made crap direct from China--no need to pay double through a middle man at the Flea Market.Quote:
Anyhow I wanted to get your thoughts on using these because its for a aquarium the site says, BUT.. it is in 460-470 NM... All I am asking is will this work?
Jacks Bargain Bin | Leopard 120W LED Panel | Aquarium Lighting | Jack's Bargain Bin | The Ultimate Bargain Warehouse. Maryland. USA. 21613
Props on the "I'm an ignorant huckabuck, please help me decide" routine, though.
"there's a sucker born every minute"-P.T. Barnum....:pimp:Quote:
You know, we can all buy that Chinese made crap direct from China--no need to pay double through a middle man at the Flea Market.
Props on the "I'm an ignorant huckabuck, please help me decide" routine, though.
:thumbsup:...
Don't let the thread go dry....I always, say....:glugglug:
Ignorant Huckabuck?!
:S2::lol5:
Damn near hurt myself tryin' ta laugh an' type at da same time.
Dude!
Weeze
Weezard, you gotta review the PDF that "supposedly" goes with those lights.
There's a greenhouse grow with the led lights Photoshopped in! :lol5:
The specs morph lazily between reddish / bluish lamps. :wtf:
Ad copy claims 112 diodes--pic shows 119 (7 x 17)...maybe there's a 5% infant mortality rate? :(
Last, but not least, a pictoral representation of ISL! (Still partially in Chinese, but mathematics IS the universal language...) :thumbsup:
The "translated" text is priceless, though. Very sweet and childlike. :icon220:
Hey DH,Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadedHermie
It's not Apollonia's avatar that got to me...it's her grow log pictures, truly beautifull! Plus she has built a really good aeroponic set-up that she's got going very nicely for a newb. And she is more organized about her grow then even most long term growers ever are.
Oh, and she is using a Procyon100 so we know she must be a good person. :thumbsup:
Besides I'm old and harmless. If you have not checked out her grow log, everybody should.
:)
I totally agree. Apollonia's work is very professional.Quote:
If you have not checked out her grow log, everybody should.
Internet identities being as they are, I'm not sure she's not 6'5" and named Sven, though...
Wait a second.
You know something, don't you.... :icon220:
You may be old, Mac. But I doubt you're "harmless." :thumbsup:
Yo' Fren,
Hermie :hippy: