Calling out to Weezard for LED advice

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The 12V adjusts from 10.61V to 13.27V (exactly, every time, measured with a Fluke 87) and the 15V goes from 13.21V to 16.55V.

With a resistive load?

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Dunno, I'll experiment. I've got a 60W 12V incandescent bulb I used to light a shed, powered by a rechargeable boat battery. When I hooked it up to check sag the Meanwell (I'm gonna write it like you and save keystrokes) stayed pretty tight.

P.S. Haven't fried anything (else) yet. Following all precautions: wrist strap, no touchee stray leads that have been soldered to the emitters, power up / down while connected, etc.

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Gettin a little gun shy?

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Well, being extra cautious. Actually feel a bit more at ease thinking I understand what cooked the first batch of leds. :tin foil hat: Not looking forward to my credit card bill, but no choice...I had to retire the 400 HPS last night. Couldn't keep temps below 90. Stuck a 4 x 2' T5 HO in there meantime, but I know from experience that's not sufficient.

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Since you are not going to get more than 45W. into 3 blue leds, the PLN60-15 will be just peachy.

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Got it. Of course, the original plan was to run 2 blues in each light. Probably should have ordered a PLN 100-15 instead, coulda run all 4 with it. . Might need to get another 60-15 to do this right. ;)

Rambling, need more coffee....

Had a thought before a drifted off this morning. Was wondering about how my timer (an Intermatic household cheapy) is going to react to the load of a Procyon and my 2 homemade 120W lights. Started thinking about splitting the lights up between 2 timers, but it's hard to keep 'em in synch.

Then it hit me. :fish: Start up the Blues and the Procyon (blue heavy) first, then 10-20 (whatever) minutes later the reds come on. At the end of the day cycle the plants would get that same interval of just red.

This would kinda mimic the changes atmospheric dust, etc. cause to the sun's spectrum every day --blue mornings, red evenings. Anyway, seemed like a good idea at the time. :stoned:

"I've got a 60W 12V incandescent bulb I used to light a shed, powered by a rechargeable boat battery. When I hooked it up to check sag the Meanwell (I'm gonna write it like you and save keystrokes) stayed pretty tight. "

Incandescent are kind of self-limiting.
Hotter filament = higher resistance.
Just the opposite of emitter junctions which draw more current as they get hotter.
Thermal runaway happens fast too!

A 10 ohm 20W. resistor will draw 1.2A at 12V. and is linear, thus mo' betta for checking sag.
if you switch a 100 ohm resistor parallel to the 10 ohm you can have an almost instant 10% load change.

Tip:

Switch that Fluke to AC and hang it on the meanwell output while changing the load.
Should still read zero = (no change in DC level.)

A triggered 'scope will give you more detail than you need, but a simple AC meter on a DC source will sometimes find gremlins like ripple, spikes, oscillation or induced RF.
Has saved me much grief.

We now must pause for a pidgin moment.

"All kine sing get in dere.
Den LED get all buss' up"!:rastasmoke:

OK, now I'm over it.

Proper english grammar can be quite inefficient, ya?

Pidgin is a lazy guy's friend.:thumbsup:

If it's not clear at times, don't hesitate to ask what the hell I'm on about.:D

'loha
Haole boi

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Had a thought before a drifted off this morning. Was wondering about how my timer (an Intermatic household cheapy) is going to react to the load of a Procyon and my 2 homemade 120W lights. Started thinking about splitting the lights up between 2 timers, but it's hard to keep 'em in synch.

Then it hit me. :fish: Start up the Blues and the Procyon (blue heavy) first, then 10-20 (whatever) minutes later the reds come on. At the end of the day cycle the plants would get that same interval of just red.

Howzat again?!

This would kinda mimic the changes atmospheric dust, etc. cause to the sun's spectrum every day --blue mornings, red evenings. Anyway, seemed like a good idea at the time. :stoned:

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I t'ink it's once in a blue noon an far red in the morning and evening, ya?:jointsmile:
Maybe dat's not an acorn.;)

Most timers are rated at 5 or 6 hundred watts non-inductive and should handle the whole shebang.

Are you using the same space for vegging and blooming?
I get more bud per buck by dividing the grow room and running the veg side 18/6 and the bloom side 12/12.

It was a snap to do using reflectix as the divider.
Here's some incentive for ya.
(See if we can ease the pain of that Credit card bill.)

[attachment=o214209]

[attachment=o214210]

[attachment=o214211]

Kinda fluffy.
The room temps hit 92 F. in the summer.
The winter buds are denser.
Dunno how big, yet.
I'll try to keep ya posted

[attachment=o214212]

Post mortem.
I need bigger net pots with bigger slots.
This gal quit the dance early 'cause her shoes were too tight.

[attachment=o214213]

These were raised dichroic.
Pre-CFL and pre-660nm.
Seems to be working.:dance:

Wish I had a procyon. for the seedlings though.
Thinking of buying one of those cheap, ($220. E-bay), UFO knock-offs for a separate cloning cabinet.

Yes, I has a soldering iron, but I'm bone lazy lately.

Waiting 'til yours is finished to use what we learn here in the design of my next "Bud-light".
The PFAA, (Photosynthesis facilitation and augmentation apparatus).
From Carmine cervical co-op corp.
You know, da Bubba Gro 2000.:D

Actually, I have no commercial intentions.
Just wanna build the best damn photon pump possible.
Anybody that has the notion and the ambition is welcome to run with whatever I come up with here.
What goes around comes around.
Copywrong 2009
All rights reversed.


Now,,
I'se havin' fun.
Aloha,
Weezard

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I t'ink it's once in a blue noon an far red in the morning and evening, ya?

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Guess yer right. Knew it changed. All at once is easy, so I'll do that.

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Here's some incentive for ya.

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Day-ummmm. Absolutely beautiful, Weeze. Alas, I only have access to bagseed genetics. Another reason to maximize performance, and a reason a grow log by me might not impress anybody enough to look at leds. Besides, we are talking about tomatoes, right? :thumbsup:

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Are you using the same space for vegging and blooming?

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Butt of coarse not! :D Got two side-by side closets with the bifold doors. 2' x 5', 7' + ceiling. The light trap venting knocks a tad off the floor footprint, but it's adequate to keep slices on my sandwiches...;) Veg in one (24/0 with t-8's and misc. CFL's for side fills. Ventilation pulls from the veg closet into the flower closet, through a carbon scrubber, and exhausts into the room. Gotta live with the heat, no way to get it outside; wouldn't help if I did....

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A 10 ohm 20W. resistor will draw 1.2A at 12V. and is linear, thus mo' betta for checking sag.
if you switch a 100 ohm resistor parallel to the 10 ohm you can have an almost instant 10% load change.

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Got a 25 ohm 50W "hot dog" round here somewhere; can set that up for 10 ohms. Got a 100 ohm built into a patch cable to discharge little caps. Prolly just half-watt though. Enough for this test?

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If it's not clear at times, don't hesitate to ask what the hell I'm on about.

'loha
Haole boi

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I'm getting the gist of it. Used to hang with a Norwegian girl who grew up on Guam when I was a lad (wistful smile crosses an old man's face :rolleyes:) Pretty sure "Howlee-boy" was not a term of endearment, though. ;)

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Caution! You must be taller than Goofy to view the BP!

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BP = blind Pig? Not getting this one. :i feel stupid:

"BP = blind Pig? Not getting this one. http://boards.cannabis.com/images/sm...l%20stupid.gif "

What? Too mixed a metaphor?

BP, Bud Porn.:)

"I'm getting the gist of it. Used to hang with a Norwegian girl who grew up on Guam when I was a lad (wistful smile crosses an old man's face :rolleyes:) Pretty sure "Howlee-boy" was not a term of endearment, though. ;)"

Can be!
There's the descriptive haole that just means "white guy"
Then there's the perjorative "F*kin' Howlee" that don't malama da aina!
I be da former.:hippy:
No got time fo' da latter.

"Besides, we are talking about tomatoes, right?"

Mais oui mon frere!
Greenpinelane dot com tomatoes at that.
Sorry for being obscure.
"It is my nature"

Da Weeze
He be haole, but he O K.

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Switch that Fluke to AC and hang it on the meanwell output while changing the load.
Should still read zero = (no change in DC level.)

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Well, it holds 12V DC real well. Adding the 100 ohm resistor jumps the AC reading from 142.8 mV to 152.8 mV. Seems to ramp up nice and smooth, though. Is this acceptable?

No other anomalies noted, but I probably wouldn't know 'em if I saw 'em. A hundredth of a volt seems okay.....

About time. Got 6 reds and 2 blues epoxied down and lighting up. :)

Here's the voltages they want in order to draw 1.2A each:

Reds
1 10.6
2 10.9 (10.6V gives 1.1A)
3 10.6
4 10.6
5 10.6
6 10.8 (10.6V gives 1.1A)

Blues
1 14.7
2 15.2 (14.7V gives 1.0A)


So, I can balance 'em out with resistors, or not. I can run all the reds
at 10.6 and have the 2 stiff ones running just a tad cooler @ 1.1A. :cool:

I can run 3 of the 10.6's together on the PLN 60-12, and get another 60-12 to drive the other 3 @ 10.8V, with a resistor to protect the lone 10.6V in that string. Or, if the 60-12 would handle it, I could run all 4 of the 10.6V reds together, but then I'm still looking for a driver for the 2 remaining reds. Not so sure "pushing" the 60-12 gets me anywhere in terms of matching the drivers up with the leds. Weezard, whatcha think? :confused:

For the blues, I can put a resistor on the 14.7V led and run 'em @ 15.1V. Since I may have overkill on the blues anyway, I could also just run at 14.7V and let the 15.1V blue cruise along a 1.0A. When I run the pair at 14.7V they look the same to me: too bright to look at. :smokin:

Back in a minute with resistor calcs. Don't tell me the answer! :detective1:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

About time. Got 6 reds and 2 blues epoxied down and lighting up. :)

Here's the voltages they want in order to draw 1.2A each:

Reds
1 10.6
2 10.9 (10.6V gives 1.1A)
3 10.6
4 10.6
5 10.6
6 10.8 (10.6V gives 1.1A)

Blues
1 14.7
2 15.2 (14.7V gives 1.0A)


So, I can balance 'em out with resistors, or not. I can run all the reds
at 10.6 and have the 2 stiff ones running just a tad cooler @ 1.1A. :cool:

Best, for heat and efficiency!

I can run 3 of the 10.6's together on the PLN 60-12, and get another 60-12 to drive the other 3 @ 10.8V, with a resistor to protect the lone 10.6V in that string. Or, if the 60-12 would handle it, I could run all 4 of the 10.6V reds together, but then I'm still looking for a driver for the 2 remaining reds. Not so sure "pushing" the 60-12 gets me anywhere in terms of matching the drivers up with the leds. Weezard, whatcha think? :confused:

Not worth the trouble.
Once you hit 1 amp you have a working light.
Hotter emitters yield less light.
1.1 amps will use 12 Watts.
You also have 152 mv. of ripple to deal with so I'd run them a little cool.

For the blues, I can put a resistor on the 14.7V led and run 'em @ 15.1V. Since I may have overkill on the blues anyway, I could also just run at 14.7V and let the 15.1V blue cruise along a 1.0A. When I run the pair at 14.7V they look the same to me: too bright to look at. :smokin:

That's right.
You have twice as much blue as you need.
And will prolly be dimming them anyway so I'd run 'em both at 14.7 to keep the heatsink :cool:.

Back in a minute with resistor calcs. Don't tell me the answer! :detective1:

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Calc away. It's good practice.;)

Well done!
Weeze

E/I = R (rounding to 2 places cause of the tolerances)

So to drop:
.5 volt at 1.2A we need .5/1.2 = .42 ohm resistor
.4V...................................... .33
.3V..................................... .25
.2V..................................... .17

Radio shack's got .47 ohm, 5 watt resistors. And I've got some 1 ohm around here somewhere.

R1 x R2
--------- = R total
R1 + R2

so a .47 parallelled with a 1.0 gives .32 Ohm. Two .47's would give .235 ohm. Gotta get to Rat Sack before they close-- I can figure out how to combine them to get what I need by using THE LAW. :dance::clap::woohoo: Thanks Weezard!!!!

Weezard, thanks for the reply. Looks like the smart money's on not using any resistors, but would you confirm I'm plugging things into the equations correctly, just so I'm not misinforming anybody? Still wanta grab some .47's "just in case." :D

Have you checked out the UFO version 3 or whatever he's calling it at HTG? Supposedly he's having these made for him with good parts, and there's a baby version, too. I've done business with this guy before and was satisfied he's a straight shooter. (I would normally be sceptical of stories like this.) :wtf:

High Tech Garden Supply

And, I saw your post on the UFO first grow thread. I would hate to jump in there and just seem critical but I'd like to see those plants in separate, small containers at this point. If he gets into drainage problems and/or gets his roots all commingled he won't do well; more food for the led sceptics.....:rolleyes:

FYI guys:

"The LZ4-00R215 is not a standard part for us. We built one run of LZ4-00R215 and shipped to Mouser based on market interest at the time. Since the initial launch and after additional marketing research, LedEngin decided to not officially release the LZ4-00R215.

There is no technical hurdle in building the LZ4-00R215. If your application offers us enough volume, we can produce the LZ4-00R215 product. Can you give me some details on you application and anticipate volume?"

Dang! I've killed so many of those things I feel personally responsible for pushing them to the brink of extinction. :( Looks like there's 38 left. The 10W deep reds are more expensive....:wtf:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Weezard, thanks for the reply. Looks like the smart money's on not using any resistors, but would you confirm I'm plugging things into the equations correctly, just so I'm not misinforming anybody? Still wanta grab some .47's "just in case." :D

Spot on!:thumbsup:

Have you checked out the UFO version 3 or whatever he's calling it at HTG? Supposedly he's having these made for him with good parts, and there's a baby version, too. I've done business with this guy before and was satisfied he's a straight shooter. (I would normally be sceptical of stories like this.) :wtf:

I know what ya mean. It sounds like hype. But I've talked to Ryan and he seems sincere. Still use one of his 14W kits for clones.
On the other hand, he's tacking on over $100 in profit. There is a price difference for the right leds, but...

High Tech Garden Supply

And, I saw your post on the UFO first grow thread. I would hate to jump in there and just seem critical but I'd like to see those plants in separate, small containers at this point. If he gets into drainage problems and/or gets his roots all commingled he won't do well; more food for the led sceptics.....:rolleyes:

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All ya can do is wait for him to read Stinky's stickies.
He didn't ask for growing advice, so I didn't offer any.
Some guys only learn the hard way.;)
He's smart enough to try leds for himself.
He'll figure out the grow part on his own or ask for help.
I quit "educating" people on my own initiative a while back.

Some swine will poo on your pearls.:wtf::D

Got a local grower that I tried to turn on to leds.
He practically snapped my head off.
Informed me, rudely that leds were a scam.
I just grinned and said you are probably right.
Now I only offer advice
to folks what asks nice.:)

Well, somebodiy's gotta support Hawaiian Electric company, ya?:D

Onward
Weeze

at least not the Ryan from Home Grown Lights.

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But I've talked to Ryan and he seems sincere

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This is an online hydro retailer--a big one. (HTG / HGL...cornfusing) Ryan's been MIA for awhile--no updates to the website, can't order anything...if I coulda bought a 50W kit of his (3 reds / 1 blue) I wouldn't have been pushed to DIY. Glad I did it, though. :thumbsup:

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He didn't ask for growing advice, so I didn't offer any.

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Too late. :D I figgered if it was me, I'd want somebody to at least offer. I won't be offended if he blows me off, I just didn't want to offend him with unsolicited "suggestions." Tried do do it Socratic-like, which is not so different than the "Weezard way" when ya think about it. ("Think about it" being the operative phrase here.) ;)

Will have light tonight so I can do thermal checks. This heatsink ROCKS. :yippee:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

at least not the Ryan from Home Grown Lights.



This is an online hydro retailer--a big one. (HTG / HGL...cornfusing) Ryan's been MIA for awhile--no updates to the website, can't order anything...if I coulda bought a 50W kit of his (3 reds / 1 blue) I wouldn't have been pushed to DIY. Glad I did it, though. :thumbsup:

Yup got cornfused alright.
Didn't sound like the kind of thing Ryan would do.
In that case, It's hype.:(
There are several new UFO rips. some of them use 10mm. low power leds and a shiny cardboard reflector.
Re-packaged "china panels" basically.
The "good" knock offs run about $220.

Too late. :D I figgered if it was me, I'd want somebody to at least offer. I won't be offended if he blows me off, I just didn't want to offend him with unsolicited "suggestions." Tried do do it Socratic-like, which is not so different than the "Weezard way" when ya think about it. ("Think about it" being the operative phrase here.) ;)

:D:D:D

Will have light tonight so I can do thermal checks. This heatsink ROCKS. :yippee:

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Might not need the fans!?
That would be sweet!

I actually own one of those snazzy tempguns.
great for reading leaf and res. temps.
But, when testing leds, I just "give 'em da finger".
Fast and sure. Saves the eyes too.:cool:

Those blue leds are a danger.
Human pupils don't contract like they do with white light, and the narrow bandwidth allows tight focus on the retina, even from the side.
I had "barneys" for two week from my first Hipower blue leds.
Went to the eye guy and he told me "don't do dat"!:)

"Turned me into a newt":smokin:
"I got better":D

Weezard

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Human pupils don't contract

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Dang these human pupils! :D(Thanks for the warning, I remember your other one.)

Weezard, ready to connect 2 blues to the 60-15. I have it dialed in to 14.78V with no load (except the meter). I don't need to set it running into a resistive load or anything, do I? CV should find a way, right? (I've got the current all the way up.)

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I've been running 13. 5 Watt leds from my Mastech for months with the supply on a timer.
Keep it set at 12.6V 3.4A.

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Wanted to ask about this, too. Do you have it set at 12.6V and current all the way up (the array draws what it can @ that voltage) OR do you also have the current knob turned down so the PS can't exceed that current? Thanks! Hermie

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Dang these human pupils! :D(Thanks for the warning, I remember your other one.)

Weezard, ready to connect 2 blues to the 60-15. I have it dialed in to 14.78V with no load (except the meter). I don't need to set it running into a resistive load or anything, do I? CV should find a way, right? (I've got the current all the way up.)

Leds are current devices.
Use the constant current setting and the voltage will take care of itself


Wanted to ask about this, too. Do you have it set at 12.6V and current all the way up (the array draws what it can @ that voltage) OR do you also have the current knob turned down so the PS can't exceed that current? Thanks! Hermie

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Current locked at 3.4 A. the voltage is set to just below the theoretical maximum for my array. Long toed 15 volts. but it only requires 12.6V. to push 3.4 amps.
Remember this is a constant current supply.

Weezard, I got sidetracked there for awhile. I decided to test my test leads, which are like 25 years old and not as heavy as they should be to do this kind of work. One of them had become intermittent inside the banana plug, and went completely and permanently open as I was examining it.

This sucker has been coming and going for a long time. I was thrown a red herring with the display on the Fluke. (You don't think a goof like me would normally have a prize like an 87, do ya? :D) The display was going out and the guy didn't want to be bothered with fixing it so I took it off his hands cheap. ;) When I finally got around to replacing the display I'd noticed some erratic readings but figured I had just been misreading the display (not all the segments were working).

So I've been zapping the leds with an intermittent connection. Plus rudely starting and stopping them. Feel kinda silly, but who tests a test lead? :wtf:

Onward.

I have the 4 reds @ 10.6V wired to the mastech. I'll run the others with the 60-12 at ~ 10.8V. Getting close, can't wait to see how this sink does.

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Weezard, I got sidetracked there for awhile. I decided to test my test leads, which are like 25 years old and not as heavy as they should be to do this kind of work. One of them had become intermittent inside the banana plug, and went completely and permanently open as I was examining it.

This sucker has been coming and going for a long time. I was thrown a red herring with the display on the Fluke. (You don't think a goof like me would normally have a prize like an 87, do ya? :D) The display was going out and the guy didn't want to be bothered with fixing it so I took it off his hands cheap. ;) When I finally got around to replacing the display I'd noticed some erratic readings but figured I had just been misreading the display (not all the segments were working).

So I've been zapping the leds with an intermittent connection. Plus rudely starting and stopping them. Feel kinda silly, but who tests a test lead? :wtf:

Funny you should ask that.
Me, that's who.
Had a similar problem with my Fluke.
Had to buy new leads to finish my light.

Onward.

I have the 4 reds @ 10.6V wired to the mastech. I'll run the others with the 60-12 at ~ 10.8V. Getting close, can't wait to see how this sink does.

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Just placed an order for 10 deep red 15W. Ledengins.
Ya got me goin' again.
Did you ever find a source for lenses?

Weeze

Fired up all the lights, no fans. Passive cooling only. Within half an hour the temp of the sink, measured behind an LED, was pushing 120 deg F., so I connected the fans. (These are Zalman ZM-F2, which are 2500 RPM @ 12V. Pretty quiet, just $5 each.) I've got 'em wired to a 9V wall wart, so they're really just loafing.

I watched the temperature drop back down to ~100 deg F. in 10-15 seconds. It was like you dipped the thermometer in cool water. :thumbsup:
[attachment=o214262]

Right now I've got just one fan running. They're kinda mounted diagonally, and I've got the thermometer as far away from the fan as possible, and right behind an LED--a worst-case scenario. Temp's are holding right at 100 deg F. with just the one fan running @ 9V. :D [attachment=o214263]

Probably the way to do this is wire the second fan to a thermal switch on a separate power supply as a backup.

[attachment=o214264]

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Dang! I've killed so many of those things I feel personally responsible for pushing them to the brink of extinction. :( Looks like there's 38 left. The 10W deep reds are more expensive....:wtf:

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And you'd have to drive them at their abs max to get the same 2.5Watt output that the 15W. get while cruising at 1 amp.
Scored 10 of da buggahs for $290.
Ouch!
Now I eat catfood for a week. ;)

Toodles
Weeze

:jumphappy:
Now that, is a thing of beauty, son.:cool::cool::cool:

I'll wager that it beats a Procyon.


See ya tomorrow.

Weezard be proud of the dang human pupil.:jointsmile:

Both of the Meanwell's are quite warm, with only 2 leds on each one. I may mount them on the wall outside the flower room with the case open like this and put a small fan on them, blowing on these metal guard plates (which are probably heatsinks, too). Weezard, do you think that's worth the effort (not much effort, really) or is it possible the plastic case is designed to dissipate heat???
[attachment=o214265]

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Did you ever find a source for lenses?

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Nope. My space is so small, the white walls are reflecting things around nicely, and the light's going where it should so I don't think I'll need 'em. I'll keep my eye out for 'em for you, though.

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Both of the Meanwell's are quite warm, with only 2 leds on each one. I may mount them on the wall outside the flower room with the case open like this and put a small fan on them, blowing on these metal guard plates (which are probably heatsinks, too). Weezard, do you think that's worth the effort (not much effort, really) or is it possible the plastic case is designed to dissipate heat???
[attachment=o214265]

I'd meter those sinks for a voltage difference.
If they are isolated or grounded, I'd stick a cpu fan on 'em and keep them out of the grow room.
Got my drivers in the room, but they are inches from an exhaust fan.:cool:

Nope. My space is so small, the white walls are reflecting things around nicely, and the light's going where it should so I don't think I'll need 'em. I'll keep my eye out for 'em for you, though.

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Mahalo!
I'll see if I can hunt some down for a side by side test.
My good meter, (CT1330B), reads LUX but will let me compare lensed and unlensed light intensity at 12" etc.

My eye-nose-n-lung meter reads Dankness units,:D
Weeze

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Originally Posted by Weezard

Scored 10 of da buggahs for $290.
Ouch!
Now I eat catfood for a week. ;)

Toodles
Weeze

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Do I smell a project in the works?? :)

Hermie- that's a nice light you got there it's making me excited to get my project done. That's one enormous heat sink too.

My bench power supply should be coming tomorrow and I have the ear of a electrical engineer so that should offset most of my newbness.

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And you'd have to drive them at their abs max to get the same 2.5Watt output that the 15W. get while cruising at 1 amp.

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Weezard, is this a typo? You could get 12.5W @ 1A if you pushed with 12.5V.

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I'd meter those sinks for a voltage difference.

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Like a difference in voltage potential between two drivers that are operating? Would you set the meter to VDC and probe the sinks on the 2 drivers? Not sure what you mean here.

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If they are isolated or grounded, I'd stick a cpu fan on 'em and keep them out of the grow room.

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Measuring here for continuity between the ground pin on the supply cable and the sink? Checking for any leakage / continuity between input and outputs? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're investigating here. :detective1:(Remember, I have electrocuted so many leds that the replacement ones all have the governor's office on speed-dial!:wtf:)

Directions for Hermie:
1. Set meter to range __________
2. Place probes here ___________ and here __________ :D

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Weezard, is this a typo? You could get 12.5W @ 1A if you pushed with 12.5V.

Nope, I was refering to the actual light output as listed in the chart on the ledengin site.
For some arcane reason, they measure output of UV and deep red in Watts rather than lumens.

Like a difference in voltage potential between two drivers that are operating? Would you set the meter to VDC and probe the sinks on the 2 drivers? Not sure what you mean here.



Measuring here for continuity between the ground pin on the supply cable and the sink? Checking for any leakage / continuity between input and outputs? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're investigating here. :detective1:(Remember, I have electrocuted so many leds that the replacement ones all have the governor's office on speed-dial!:wtf:)

Directions for Hermie:
1. Set meter to range __________
2. Place probes here ___________ and here __________ :D

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Stop, yer kiliin' me. :D

With the supply off and unplugged, check resistance between both/each heatsink and both ouput pins, in both directions.
Then, fire it up and check for dc/ac voltage between both the sinks
(Can't imagine they'd use two seperate sinks without a good reason).
If you find anything at all. use an insulator between the sinks and your CPU fan is all I'm sayin'.

Mo' betta?
Weezard

Even with all the power supplies in the little flower closet I only need to run the exhaust fan for a few minutes every half-hour or so. :thumbsup:

Some figures, for those that like 'em:

I multiplied actual drive current x voltage for the individual leds to figure watts consumed by JUST the leds. I unplugged each driver/led combo and noted the decrease in watts drawn on my "kill-a-watt" device to determine total watts consumed by the system.

2 red leds only............. 25W
w/ PLN 60-12...............32W

2 blue leds only............ 34W
w/ PLN 60-12............... 39W

4 red leds only............. 48W
w/ Mastech 30-10........ 69W

Total "led lighting watts" = 107W (89% of rated abs max)
Total power consumption = 140W

I think pushing the drivers a tad harder will increase the efficiency a bit. The Mastech's just idling--it's cool, and the fan never comes on. I love this thing! Same price as a Meanwell 150W driver. Maybe I'll get another one and drive my 12 reds with 2 Mastechs. Have to see how close Vf is on the next batch to plan for proper drivers. Just using 3-4 leds per driver might be good insurance, tho... :cool:

Weezard, I've got the light about 9" above the plant tops. Does that sound about right, or can it be closer? (I have the Procyon about 12" up.) Seems like I remember you mentioning 3" but can't remember the discussion....:stoned:

Quote:

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(Can't imagine they'd use two seperate sinks without a good reason).

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They looked like steel, if that tells you anything. They are positioned so Hermie couldn't get his fat fingers in there to get poked, so they are functional in that regard. :thumbsup: (Where's my butter knife?? I'll find some life in there!):D

Weezard, what's up? Been super busy, I just hung the 6+2 led light in place of the 400 HPS and got back to real world issues for awhile. Everything looks good. Severe heat stress definitely improved. Plants seemed happy right off the bat; transpiration hassles diminished, too. Plants do NOT seem to be pining for any missing frequencies or intensity.

Been tinkering with the blue ratio, hard to figure anything out in a hurry. Have to wait for the plants to tell me what they like. At first, I just ran all the leds at 1.2 A. But now I've got the blue driver turned all the way down. (13.16V) Haven't checked the current draw at that voltage but it can't be much. The driver for the blues is cooler than the PLN 60-12 which is driving only 2 reds at 10.85V. Not sure I need 2 blues for the next light, at least not this month! (Already have the reds.) Might wanna do a side-by-side with 1 blue vs. 2 blues. Ideal probably varies according to development stage of the plant.

"My mistake" on the heatsink / shield things. They are not impressed with my neodymium magnet, so maybe they are anodized aluminum. Being new at this I just have a hard time viewing those things as heatsinks when they're sealed up in that plastic housing. Seems terribly ineffective.

Quote:

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With the supply off and unplugged, check resistance between both/each heatsink and both ouput pins, in both directions.

Totally open. Nuttin'.

Then, fire it up and check for dc/ac voltage between both the sinks

Pay dirt. Measured 200mV DC and 1.0V AC between the two sinks on one of the drivers (Don't remember which...)

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Thanks again for all of your help, encouragement, and kind words. I do intend to do a build log and show how to put together a plug-n-play like this. These prefab drivers are pricey, but folks with heat issues will find it worthwhile, and simple to do. I'll start a log in this forum or the "grow log" section if that seems more appropriate. I'll build the light and photograph the steps within a week or 2, but it may be a while before I can begin the tutorial.

Also want to retest the leds for Vf after 25 days of 12 / 12 which is 300 hours of operation. I read somewhere the leds may burn-in during this period and I wanna check it for myself--see if I've grown a sub-10.6Vf "current hog."

Regards, Hermie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Weezard, what's up?

Just disposed of all my sugarleaf.
A buddy, a few beers, his schwag, my schwag, (tomato, of course), :);)
Some buckets, some ice, a sunset.
There are many ways to be busy.:D


Been super busy, I just hung the 6+2 led light in place of the 400 HPS and got back to real world issues for awhile. Everything looks good. Severe heat stress definitely improved. Plants seemed happy right off the bat; transpiration hassles diminished, too. Plants do NOT seem to be pining for any missing frequencies or intensity.

Been tinkering with the blue ratio, hard to figure anything out in a hurry. Have to wait for the plants to tell me what they like. At first, I just ran all the leds at 1.2 A. But now I've got the blue driver turned all the way down. (13.16V) Haven't checked the current draw at that voltage but it can't be much. The driver for the blues is cooler than the PLN 60-12 which is driving only 2 reds at 10.85V. Not sure I need 2 blues for the next light, at least not this month! (Already have the reds.) Might wanna do a side-by-side with 1 blue vs. 2 blues. Ideal probably varies according to development stage of the plant.

"My mistake" on the heatsink / shield things. They are not impressed with my neodymium magnet, so maybe they are anodized aluminum.

Good bet!

Being new at this I just have a hard time viewing those things as heatsinks when they're sealed up in that plastic housing. Seems terribly ineffective.

Actually, they are just that. HeatSINKS. rather than heat pumps or pipes, etc.
It is effective in adding "beef" to a PN junction that would go poof without it. but, is ineffficient in dumping that heat elsewhere.


Thanks again for all of your help, encouragement, and kind words. I do intend to do a build log and show how to put together a plug-n-play like this. These prefab drivers are pricey, but folks with heat issues will find it worthwhile, and simple to do. I'll start a log in this forum or the "grow log" section if that seems more appropriate. I'll build the light and photograph the steps within a week or 2, but it may be a while before I can begin the tutorial.

This has been a rare pleasure.
Your humor is much appreciated.
The wife says you are a "hoot".

I like your style. And we are both "richer" for this.

Though, I'm not quite done with this thread.
Still not sure what to do with this last order of 10 LEDs.
I free'd up my variable PS and will be testing for Vf. tomorrow.
Do you think I should start a new DIY thread or just continue to thrash about in yours?

Also want to retest the leds for Vf after 25 days of 12 / 12 which is 300 hours of operation. I read somewhere the leds may burn-in during this period and I wanna check it for myself--see if I've grown a sub-10.6Vf "current hog."

Good idea, I believe that was from greenpinlane

Regards, Hermie

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Please excuse brainfarts and scatterings
li'l 'zard be bubbled tonight.:stoned:

ciao
Weeze

A trainer friend sent me this. It's actually an ad for Samsung led TV's.


YouTube - Extreme Sheep LED Art

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

A trainer friend sent me this. It's actually an ad for Samsung led TV's.


YouTube - Extreme Sheep LED Art

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Haha, amazing link. Starting to think how I can integrate sheep into my grow light project.

Leds Still Do.;)

Stalled again.
Waiting for parcels and parts.
Got choke horses.
Hardly any carts.

<Sigh>

Weezard

You are homebrewing a switch mode PS for a driver, and have the inductors, but little else?

Close enough. :D
In pidgin, "choke" means too much.
I'm sure you caught the initial joke.;)
And the rest...?

Just sayin' that, once again, I'm out of sequence.
First things last and V. V.
Should have bit the bullet and bought your kine heatsinks first.
Been hunting for another thick alumunum turkey pan to no avail.
Have not even ordered any meanwells or blue leds.
Looking for my round tuit to measure Vf on the red leds.
Seems like my Let's Smoke Dope alarm goes off a little earlier every day.

Ah well. it's self limiting.
My bag has a bottom.:(

Guess I'd better go do some less important stuff for a while.

Loved the Baaa studs video, thanks.:cool:

Weezard

Quote:

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Been hunting for another thick alumunum turkey pan to no avail.

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If "round" ain't a deal-breaker (think UFO) I found some pre-teflon era aluminum skillets / fry pans at thrift shops and garage sales. THICK! Buy 'em for fiddy cent.

Failing that: the eBay heatsink guy ships quick and cheap. 8.5" by whatever length you want. Cuts are free, too. I was originally going to build "photon torpedoes" of single-file leds on a half-width heatsink, but decided to just build dedicated lights to work in my space, rather than build an all-purpose, slide-it-in-anywhere kinda supplemental light. (This thing is kicking butt, BTW-replaced the 400 HPS no problem. :smokin:)

Anyway, rep me an addy and desired dimensions and I'll gift you one, if it'd brighten your day. :thumbsup: Gotta go! Still busy! (It's a good thing, tho) :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

If "round" ain't a deal-breaker (think UFO) I found some pre-teflon era aluminum skillets / fry pans at thrift shops and garage sales. THICK! Buy 'em for fiddy cent.

Failing that: the eBay heatsink guy ships quick and cheap. 8.5" by whatever length you want. Cuts are free, too. I was originally going to build "photon torpedoes" of single-file leds on a half-width heatsink, but decided to just build dedicated lights to work in my space, rather than build an all-purpose, slide-it-in-anywhere kinda supplemental light. (This thing is kicking butt, BTW-replaced the 400 HPS no problem. :smokin:)

Anyway, rep me an addy and desired dimensions and I'll gift you one, if it'd brighten your day. :thumbsup: Gotta go! Still busy! (It's a good thing, tho) :D

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"Must spread some reputation around before...":D

Found an affordable 10" X 10" 'sink.:thumbsup:

But thanks big for the offer.:1baa:

Also found a 12V. 21A. supply and a couple 12V. 8A. dimmers dirt cheap.

Leds tested well.
Got 5 that eat 1.2A @ 10.5V.
4 @ 10.4V and 1 @ 10.3V.

Found 60 degree lenses for the 15W. , (perfect for my bloomin' space), and 90 degree lenses for the 5W. arrays that will now be veg lights.
Whymy actually buying stuff?
Hadda windfall, sold 4 tubes of ICs for $500.
So, 10 X 10, I'm thinkin' 10R and 2B.

* * * *
* * * *
* * * *

Mundane, but effective.

Yay! :yippee:
Mailman just brought the UFO knockoff.
Allaway from Hong Kong.
Hmmm.
Nice!
At 12" I get 8k lux.
Just a tad less than my cakepan with 5 15W leds. (8.4k)
Just 500 lux more than my lensed 5W. array but @625nm. vs 660nm. for both my lights, so it's very relative.
My 10mm 300 led homebrew reads 3.5k
Best I can get out of the HGL 5mm kit is 3k.

First eyeball impression of the faux UFO?
Very bright!
First earball impression?
A bit louder than I had hoped.:(
Lets give it a week and see what the girls think.
For $200 bucks it's affordable.
For the price of a Procyon, you can hang 2 UFOs and still have some lunch money left.:D
Now we should see some real competition from the grow light mfgrs.:cool:

OK I give up trying to make the diagram size properly. :stoned:

Regards,
Weezard

21 Amps !??!
10 + 2 !?!!!!

Hold yer horses, there, Nikita--I didn't think things were gonna escalate this quickly! And put yer shoe back on! :D I have everything I need to stay in this race: Thermal epoxy, room on the heatsink, and my (ouch) credit card! Just no time to "play" for 3-4 more weeks.

Supposed to be retired, but some projects came up that were too good to pass up. Gotta make hay while the iron hot, ya?

To respond to some things that went whizzing by during the last few days:

Quote:

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Some buckets, some ice, a sunset.
There are many ways to be busy.

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Sounds grand. Folks complain about the drudgery of ice and buckets, but I love to cook, and that's how makin' bubbles seems to me. Like doing a big vat of demi-glace. You need to be "not-in-a-hurry" and appreciate the journey. I so look forward to relaxing a bit, and doing something nice with some leisurely prep. Coc au Vin, maybe Oxtail Stew. :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Actually, they are just that. HeatSINKS. rather than heat pumps or pipes, etc.
It is effective in adding "beef" to a PN junction that would go poof without it. but, is inefficient in dumping that heat elsewhere.

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Well, I am a noob at heatsinks. These finned sinks I got just about made me wet myself, though, and that's dangerous around electricity. :D One led on a corner of the sink heats it up evenly, all the way to the opposite corner. It never seems warmer near the leds--the heat just flows away evenly, and a fan placed anywhere on the fins (even on a corner) evenly cools the whole sink. If I aimed a circulation fan so it just "grazed" the light that'd probably be sufficient cooling. (At least, for a puny 6 + 2 ;))

It's just that this term "sink" seems misleading to me. A true heatsink would just get hotter and hotter until...well, it just seems like they are all heat radiators of widely varying form and efficiency. Sealing the "sinks" inside the Meanwells just seems wrong, unless the case (polymer?) is designed to help transfer heat from the sinks to the ambient air. Actually, that was a question: would the meanwells be happier with the case open? (Let me know if you ever get one of 'em so you can help me use it right!)

Quote:

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Do you think I should start a new DIY thread or just continue to thrash about in yours?

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Weezard, please do what you think will best serve the greater good. It's an honor to have you here. This thread has lotsa views, and I think your name in the title is why. (If I'd have called it "I am a dumb-ass and am trying to homebrew an led light" I doubt there'd be much interest. :wtf:)

I was (am) planning to do a separate thread for my build log. No sense dragging innocents through my carnage unneccessarily. Was thinking of a title like: "Build a hi-power led growlight--difficulty level age 12 and up." (Plug-and-play drivers, fo' sho')

So, whatever. Multiple threads about led builds may pique some interest, if that matters for anything. And Weezard is box-office gold. The Brad Pitt of CannCom, sorta:

"Weezard, please be in my thread!"
"We're sorry, Weezard's agent has him booked in multiple techy threads plus a guest appearance at a Star Trek convention. Check back next year for availability." :D :D :D

Whoops, gotta run. To be continued..... Hermie