ty MVP and sublime:smokebong:
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ty MVP and sublime:smokebong:
It's not that he dared to expirement.....I think we all do that.......it's that he dared to expirement $1800 worth. That's pretty much a different ball game right there.
I picked this up the other day, an LED light for 99 cents. It has a power cord or takes 2 AA batteries. They also had pallets of CFL Bulbs that are paid for in part by edison to get us to switch out old bulbs. If Edison can sponsor energy saving products and distribute them this cheap why are the fricking red and blue one $600 bucks? Hello........I could buy 50 of these and some red or blue leds and swap out the whites here wouldn't you think?
And I would but knowing me I would knock out power on the western grid or get electrocuted. However I still might try, I just wondered if someone else thinks it could work because it seems too easy and too cheap.
Oh yeah and you can get this wonderful desk light in silver or black!!!
Mmmm, could someone please explain how LED lights affect quality any differently than say... CFL, or halogen, or MH.Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
SnS, there is iron in WHs words, yet they ring with a tone of discouragement. Please don't worry about the naysayers and nerdowells. Please continue with your plans that I personally am excited about, and will continue to be, right up until the point that in flowering when you decide to dump the experiment and some supplemental lighting. I recognize you not for so much for your genius (yet), but for the fact that you have the balls and the money to try an all-LED grow. LED's are coming soon, like it or not. Actually they are already here and extremely viable for many situations, but it's just that grow LEDs need a tad bit more of experimenting and tweaking. Just a couple more years of tweaking here and there. Not that I'm a big shot, but trust me, I took a class from industry leaders like Phillips and GE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
opiei definitely agree with ya that grow LEDs are not perfected yet, and do need some work. But as they evolve just a weee more to get to that point, i'll be at the point waiting. Im sorry that we were in the financial situation to be able to do this, i mean, even a mediocre harvest will pay for the lights. I dont get though why how much we spent keeps coming up. again i say....someone had to do it, and my balls felt big...heh. ill have some more pics up tomorrow...they loved the lowering of the lights and the start of nutes....we set the lights up to be moved alot because like opie said i believe, we are doing some serious adjustments....constantly...but its somethingIve never done per say, so I dont expect amazing shit the first harvest. I already realize i should've used like a 15 gal pot under each light with 4-5 plants in each...or it could still be cause the stage they are in....I...Dont...Know...LOL but im learning alot right along with you guys....so what im rambling about is basically this...feel free to tell me im doing something wrong, or give suggestions...but dont shoot my shit down before its even started....weedhound, opie, mvp, cma...none of you guys have really bugged me... i was mainly talking about cture, didnt wanna name people, but others thought it was them...
:smokebong:
I needed that...but by all means, everyone chime in all you want
and luvfriday, sorry man, but those LEDs wouldnt grow with 1000 of them...they have to be tuned...blah blah...read earlier on the thread.. lots o spec reasons
They will work and they do fine for vegging, and LED arrays have been used many times for growing. Within 15 years I guarantee that myself and many others will be switching to LED grow lights unless some new, better thing gomes along before hand. Just about the same time that they start to function well for producing nice big colas similar to those HID produce, and the initial price to do so becomes a little more realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
Please don't get discouraged. Most people thought the guys working on cures for many diseases, or getting some photos of the Martian landscape, or trying to build a flying machine, to name a few, were complete idiots and wasting valuable time and money. Kudos, and have a little "spirit of experimentation" rep. Though it will not be, I want your yield to be just this side of sliced bread. Soon though, soon... Just any decent yield will get me thinking more strongly about switching. I do not expect, nor am I hoping for any kind of astounding yield. Weed smokes the same in the bowl whether it's from a huge crop or not, and the low cost of running LEDs combined with their ridiculously long life, would make the purchase price well worth the money if the yield were anything close to conventional lighting techniques. I'm not asking for much here, just some good, powerful grow lights that are nearly free and cost nothing to operate. That's not asking too much is it?
I want to switch as soon as possible and guys like you may end up making soon a reality. Thanks for the experiment and thanks for sharing.
Wow, for a dead person you have been producing some pretty cool grows and some nice write-ups. Who's your unghost writer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
eh, girls where talkin, so i went in the room with the cam....here you guys go...its 74 degrees 50 percent humidity and 6.8 Ph:jointsmile:......or not....not letting me put them up right now.......
Nice attitude of exploration and experimentation. I know the feeling. I like it. It's like, "I just gotta know and I won't sleep much until I do". I sure wish I had the money to do nothing for a living, (or at least for a hobby) other than experimenting with horticulture as it relates to weed farming, and other healing and psychotropic flora. Whatever experiment or item of controversy that popped into my head, or the heads of the people of the cancom forum. (I certainly would not consider frequenting a different forum.) Hey, anyone out there have some grant money for me?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
You are not doomed to fail. I have a feeling that if you have enough brains to get some seeds successfully growing, you can also see the grow through until harvest. No matter what yield comes of it, the grow, or the experiment will have been a success.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
Again, best wishes. Please stand by; sending positive vibes now.... Almmmmmmmmmmmmm (while in lotus position).
Yes it is different, fortunately. So different it just might work. Since we've started talking about LEDs years ago, I've always said that someone might be able to get a nice fat yield using solely LEDs, but not by spending $200 on light. I've always contended that it will be into the thousands$ to end up with anything significant. I was thinking more like $3000 per plant and up, at todays technology and cost, but the price for this technology is rapidly declining, as with all electronics after a few years of getting more recognized and commonplace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
Edison and several other companies have recently been taking big initial losses with the hopes of getting people to see the light, (no pun intended), and to get that wonderful government subsidy that comes out of our pockets. The rest, and then some is usually recovered through taxes that come out of our pockets.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfriday
The blue ones are normally double or triple the price of red, and they are $600 because it is an entirely different, and much newer technology. Beta video players were damn expensive when they first came out too. Now a unit costs what, 10 cents?
If you choose to rebuild those lights, it would be best if you kept at least a couple white ones, but yes of course, mostly blue and red. Also, different colors and brands run at different volts, amps, ohms, or whatever, which I imagine might be a significant hurdle to overcome. Not sure, I'v been reading some but haven't started tinkering yet. Been waiting for you to show me exactly how. I think you might be better off starting from scratch. Ideally at minimum two light fixtures; one for veg and one for bloom, with more blue in veg and more red in bloom. Sounds like a fun project, and I got pretty excited about similar projects a few months back. They just kinda slid down the priority list one night when I was asleep. Sneaky bastards. Since we are paying for these whether we buy some or not, for 2 or $3 each (with batteries) I'd be tempted to scoop up 50 or 100 of these and see what they can do by themselves. However I fear that if used as grow lights, the cost of batteries will be the downfall (rechargeable batteries? don't know, but that costs electricity). I tell you what though: LEDs make friggen great flashlights. (But get the higher power ones.) Hey either that or you could scoop em all up and sell em on Ebay for $4 each. That's what... x amount? Damn! I almost did that when I got the expensive CFLs for 8 cents each.
Why are you sorry for having money? Please don't be, I think that's great. I think it's even more great that you're planning on sending me some. YOUR EYE LIDS ARE GETTING EXTREMELY HEAVY, BUT WHEN I SNAP MY FINGERS YOU WILL AWAKE FEELING REFRESHED AND HAPPY. YOU WILL ALSO GLADLY DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING I TELL YOU TO WHEN I SAY "ALBANIAN CHICKEN SOUP" IN THE PRECEDING SENTENCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
I'm very happy that at least a couple of us weed growers not only are able to experiment for the sake of the rest of us and for the sake of overall knowledge, but to be able to show us what happens when a grow isn't constrained the slightest by lack of finances. I guess being able to use top of the line products, craftsmanship, nutrients, etc. is what I'm talking about. Hopefully one is able to combine all that with knowledge and common sense. In that case the whole deal has huge advantages over a ghetto grow that "can't afford to spend money on something to measure PH". Not that you are doing all this, but at least perhaps a nice bit of funds may enable you to study and try what might eventually become the "top of the line" lighting system. It was the illustrious Zandor who said, "If you go cheap you'll grow cheap". I whole-heartedly agree.
I'm not entirely sure that you really are sorry or sheepish about getting a little money, but if so there is no need for that. In general I'm just as comfortable around wealthy people (don't know that you are or aren't). We'll get along just fine unless you start indicating that you might be better than me, or start flaunting your money, or just overall being a total ass like I have seen many people do.
And SnS, to answer one part of your question; This may be a little hard for a person with money to understand, but I'll try. For many of us one of the main concerns for everything we consider, or often, everything we think about, is how much that thing or situation is going to cost us. When you have to decide between food or electricity, it's kinda out of the question for many of us to be able to justify spending $1800 an a lighting system for weed. However, many (or at least several) of us are very interested in your project, or LED lighting in general, and perhaps would like to someday construct something similar to your set up. That is why we are interested in many aspects of it, including the cost. In our case we have to ask, so perhaps we can't afford it.
Keep on fighting the good fight.
Oops, sorry just skimmed back again. The lights come with power cords as well.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
yup....dont get it twisted we is BROKE... a lucky one time lump o loot made sure that if we did it, we did it right....that way we knew what if i had CO2...what if.... so we got it all, now we are broke...and hoping like hell for an AVG at least, yield...then repetition...well...i am talkin to a bunch of growers...lol.....oh..another attempt at the pics....
guess not
whiskeytango
I don't recall shooting anything down. I just refuse to bat my eyelashes and say "wow you big strong $1800 hunk you" if I don't happen to think so. And right now, while I like the pink, if you want wows you gotta give the folks something to wow about.
We've all given you the proper wow for the money you spent on lighting (which IS WOW!) but this is a VERY "what have you done for me lately" kind of deal and we're stoners......we forget things fast.
Huh? I guess I missed something. In the 2 or 3 times cture shared with the class I don't remember him/her ever shooting your shit down. Just from memory here, but didn't he just offer some advice and say what he might do differently, and in general offer to help? And at least in somewhat of a non argumentative manner?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
As best as this stoney mind can recollect, nobody was putting down your deal man. If you want to point the finger at anyone, seems a more appropriate choice might be Weedhound, but even then I don't think she was doing anything worth fretting over. She just thinks that's a damn large amount of coinage to be dropping on an experiment that's trying to take a concept farther than it has gone in the past. Is that about right WH? I completely understand her point of view and I agree with it. However, if it weren't for insane wealthy people investing a bunch of money in ridiculous, unproven ventures, we wouldn't have much of the necessary useless crap we have at our disposal today. At least it would have got here later, costing many thousands of lives. What the hell is this circular, obtuse, cosmic crap opie?
The deal is that the collective has yet to behold a yield or a bud of great stature, when the grow used LEDs as the sole lighting source. Understand that it is human nature to be skeptical and critical of the new stuff, and defensive of our old "proven" methods. Sure we've seen bud. Also, sure we have not seen giant, mouthwatering dankness as with HPS. This doest mean we should not endeavor to perceiver, especially as technology advances in that area. I hope you don't get discouraged at previous and future put-downs, or whatever, and there most likely will be some.
And I haven't "really" bugged you? huh? Sounds quite a bit different than just plain ol' "you haven't bugged me." I'd appreciate it if you could point out my bugginess, so that I may learn to not be such a bugger.
That is an extremely bold and confident statement. I'm pulling for you, but that is one hell of an order to fill. I hope you'll grab my hand and pull me up to that level when it happens, or at least somewhere close.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
I can't explain it, but both in the Hightimes UFO grow comparison and one other I saw, they claimed higher resin levels and a better high. I dont claim to know why, just hoping they're right:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Doughboy
Everyone please understand the purpose of coming in here so early is to have a hard to dispute, picture laden record of WHATEVER happens with these grow lamps. good or bad. They are out there making claims of what they can do and until each different type of light is tested by themselves than no one will no. If the price we payed is an issue I would rather it not mentioned ever again. As WH said this thread will blow up if we show budding plants and its getting long already. The LED lights...info please thread (of which I think we've all been to)is a good place for lighting theory ?'s. I'm not trying to shut anyone down or stop their input, but cture "INSISTING" we add more lights isn't what we were looking for. I know there are many "helllllp what do I do" posts, so its understandable, and NO we dont know everything and may have ?'s just as you have. It just seems we all(us included) are sharpening our sticks to go after one another for no reason. We are all very interested in any new grow technique, its human(grower...lol) nature for new processes to be loved and belittled at the same time. I do hope that you are all around to either point and laugh or point and praise...and the experiment will continue.
:rastabong:fillin it up to send around the room,
Doughboy
P.S. pics as soon as it lets us
SnSstealth, Well said!! Yes your pictures are great. They illustrate exactly what you are tring to acheive. This is not a grow show yet it's research, I think you will be proud of your results and quality but lack a little wieght. But hey hoo-doesn't want more potent smoke!! Congrates on where you are know and Good Luck In Your Future. Later
Any chance I could just get a couple quick quotes, thoughts or ideas as to why LED lighting would make more CB and THC. Could someone paraphrase so my 4-day long headache doesn't have to go hunting? Just 2 more days to break my record.
Maybe because more energy is absorbed in the right Wavelength's and allowing more time to creating CB and THC. Later
i wanted to get that light soooo bad but it was sooo expensive. i cant wait to see how your grow goes this is the first one iv seen with the procyon. if it realy produces like a 600w hps thatll change the game.
Mmmm nope, that aint it. Anything else?Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
For optimum efficiency a plant needs more than one or two wavelengths. More like somewhere between 15 and 100. We're just not sure yet.
i havent seen anything definitive about THC raising or taste or quality. i've read a few claims here and there...but that was what they were...i dont even think it was the HGL site that said it....so i cant answer your question either opie...cause i have no clue how it would.....lol
good on you for trying something new :)
you got any up to date pics of the lil ladies ?
If there is more resin, it might even be because something is missing. Which, in this case, would happen to be a good thing. Adding other colors might be counterproductive even.
Pure speculation, at this moment, but not watering a plant is meant to raise resin at the end of the plants cycle, too.
I can't remember if you are going to train the plants in some sort, LST, SCROG or keep them low as in a SOG, which I definitive would find beneficial (light penetration of the LEDs/ light fall off). No one would find that to be an unfair comparison to HID.
With those systems even two layers of LST-plants are possible where you can have only one with HID, since cooling and distance to the plants are a ruling factor, especially in cupboard grows.
But the most important thing is to have clear and straight grow. Don't fiddle about stuff, that can't be reproduced even by yourself.
Thumbs up, I'm reading this with pleasure.
Well i must say stealth, You are doing a very good job teaching any growers the benifits of LED Growing and i think everyone who is stating their opinions rudely should think again, what if this does work good and you get a massive yeild? everyone will be bowing to your feet asking for help and questions. I for one think thats very pacient of you to try something new and see the results. keep up the good work, ill be checkin up for photos of your little babes :) :rastasmoke:
Well I don't know about you guys but I have been intently following the LED reports in High Times. Basiclaly the problem with LED lights is the diodes that they are currently using. I know that the LED UFO uses 445 nm reds and 627 nm blues. (Problem with this info. The nm info is taken straight from High Times. Needless to say if you know anything about the color spectrum I believe they meant to put 445 blues and 627 reds since red happens at the higher end of the spectrum.) It says right in the article that they would LOVE to use 660 nm blues but they are WAY too expensive. I cannot speak for the Procyon 100 but the LED UFO will cause higher amounts/more potent resin but also a decreased yield and lots of stretching. Greatest absoprtion SPECIFICALLY for cannabis plants occurs at roughlt 425nm and 660nm. If you can find a way to provide 5000 lm per sq ft of 425nm and 660nm I can almost guarantee that you will get similiar results to that of HID lighting. In fact I am about to have a friend wire me up a board of 100-150 LEDs in those wavelengths. I am also going to try and find a few other wavelengths close to those just for a broader spectrum.
Buyers, don't be afraid to invest in some LED lights once you feel you are confident in them. The energy savings alone will pay for itself within a very short amount of time. I am telling you guys LEDs ARE the future
Great grow man lookin awesome.
wierd...still wont let me post pics, keeps saying server timed out.....blumen, I am getting 5000 lumen across the room at the top of the pots. and the procyon is a lil bit stronger than the UFO. the UFO is 90w and the procyon is 100. few more reds. im definitely considering SCROG depending on how the girls look in about 2 weeks. it could only help if im not quite getting enough light.
Paht....that's great but the future needs to get cheaper.
Sounds like you've really studied this LED thing as well. Hope you do a log too that everyone can follow.
Everyone keeps saying this and it's true, of course. If I run my furnace at 50 degrees instead of 70, there's no doubt doing that will pay for itself very shortly. If I drive a Yugo, or Le Car instead of my 4x4 truck, that would soon pay for itself too. Fuck that noise, I don't want to freeze, I like big powerful vehicles, and I like my weed yields to be as large as possible, no matter what the savings are for smaller yields. These things that are less productive and less expensive to operate are great for some people. Personally I'll do what I can to increase yield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paht_Hed
Do LED's cost less to run? Yes, much less. Do you get less weed using LED's? Yes, much less, unless you use about $5000 worth of light per plant. I hope I'm not bursting your bubble too much, but you're going to need about 10 or 15 of those 100-150 light arrays you are building, per plant, to see much of anything during flowering. If you've got the funds to try experiments, great. Good for you, but considering today's technology, it doesn't exactly make financial sense unless yield is not a concern for you.
Don't forget laws of physics people. Many have tried, and all have failed, to get more energy out of something than is put in.
Well I see his point if he just wants to see what they do and that makes sense. But I have to admit that the whole "taking one for the team" spirit confuses me a little in that I'm not exactly sure my team needed one taken.......
I disagree I think given the right wavelengths and at least 5,000 lumens per sq ft you could get as good of yields if not better than HID. There are HO LEDs that can put out over 130 lumens per watt. Order some 2 or 3 watt LEDs and fill a board with them. Yes it will be very expensive so if you want to start cheap then don't go LED. If you are looking to make/save more money in the long run LEDs are the way to go.
You can't compare a Procyon 100 OR a UFO LED to an HID lamp because they are both slightly if not way out of the spectrum that is needed for cannabis plants. The key to growing with LEDs since they can't yet match the lumens of an HID and still remain REASONABLY cost efficient is to hit precisely the spectrum needed for optimal growth. The Procyon 100 uses 40 635nm and 16 470nm CREE XLamp LEDs. The UFO LED lamp uses 20 455nm and 70 627nm of an unknown brand, at least to me, 1 watt LED. The light absorption by cannabis PEAKS at roughly 660 nm in the red at 90% absorption percentage in photosynthesis and 640 nm at 80% and 430 nm in the blue at 100% absorption percentage in photosynthesis and 465 nm at 80%. Now this is the combined photosynthesis of all pigments, chlorophyll-a,-b, and carotenoids. The indiviual pigments peak at 440nm at 64% and 660nm at 50% for -a, 465nm at 80% and 640nm at 30% for -b, and 445nm at 60% and 485nm at 58% for carotenoids. The advantage of LEDs is that you can get the EXACT spectrum you need where as with HID lamps you have a broader spectrum so you are wasting some of your lumens since they aren't usable in photosynthesis. I Haven't priced these specific LEDs needed. I am not worried about that right now but you can all expect to see an LED based grow soon. I would love to team up with some of you HID growers out there for some dual grows or something to have a variable.
:smokin:Peace, one love:smokin:
Try reducing the resolution size in your pics. (640x480)..the smaller size is easier to see here too.Quote:
wierd...still wont let me post pics, keeps saying server timed out.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paht_Hed
But at what cost, my dear man? Have you no conscience? Think of the lost lives!
I mean, I sure hope so, as I've said many times. No but really, at what cost to encase the plant in the light you speak of, and end up with some beauties?
Unfortunately it aint that simple. Please don't get me wrong, some of you guys seem fairly knowledgeable on the subject, and thanks for spending the time and money so we don't have to.
There are so many things to consider and study. I started, and I was all excited. I had no doubt that I was going to be the first one to come up with the exact perfect combination, since it didn't really seem like anyone else was interested in trying. Soon I began to realize that there is soooo much to study and learn, and a shitload of experiments that need to be done before even deciding what color LEDs to order. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot to mention the fact that in no way could I afford to make prototypes or even conduct necessary experiments. I needed plants, and I needed barrels of test LEDs. After a couple months of studying in some of my spare time, interest waned, at least in the dream of building my LED lighting empire. Itā??s still there, over in the corner in a box with some clothes on it, but I shut out itā??s muffled pleas to be released. I donā??t feel comfortable divulging the entire contents of the box at this time. As far as I know, some of the things in there are completely unique to the collection of grow LED ideas. I just thought it might be best to remove the temptation of borrowing part of one of my ideas for financial gain or dots of rep. Who knows? The box my spring a leak some day. Now, you guys have a go, and more power to you. And hereā??s some damn good advice, at least from my point of view: Try to think about some things you havenā??t previously.
In this thread and others Iā??ve said that I want you guys/gals to succeed, and hopefully within the next couple 3 years. Iā??ve also said several times that Iā??ve yet to see a side by side study in which the LED side came anywhere close. Please link me if someone else has.
And Phat, 5,000 lumens. How far from the plant? Lumens is a measurement of the light people see, not plants. But Iā??m sure you knew that. Is that close to what the plant sees at those nm?
So an array produces light at a hypothetical distance of 2 feet. It produces 8x as much light at 1 foot, and 16x as much at Ā½ foot. Is that how the inverse square law works? (been awhile). Hypothetically itā??s not producing enough light for the nice big dripping pieces of corn on the cob that you were hoping for, so you move it to 1 foot. OK good. Thatā??s getting results much closer to what you had in mind since itā??s getting 8 times more light. Oops, but where did the buds go on the surrounding areas of the grow? They nearly stopped growing, darn it. Since the manufacturer wanted to claim more light output than the competitor, they decided to use a 15 degree dispersal instead of 30. Sure glad that helps, but you have to go buy (incidentally exactly) 8 times more arrays to surround the one you lowered, so that all the plants can get light. So weā??ve gone from what $500, up to $4000? Aaaaallright! Awesome, thatā??s not too bad to hypothetically seem like a pioneering, cutting edge bad ass hero in the weed farming community. Uh oh. Damn it! Seems like this manufacture forgot that lights need a mixture of somewhere between 6 and 30 different reds to be as efficient as possible during flowering. Seems like they got the best test results during vegging and using blue lights, so thatā??s what most of their advertising and production efforts were concentrated on. So then you decide to get the lights from the other guys, since they advertise 30 degree bulbs for a wider coverage. It doesnā??t take more than 10 minutes after you set them up to realize that since the light is spread out twice as much, the grow is going to need twice as many to get the same amount of light. Iā??ll let you guys deal with this and much more.
NOTE: HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION EXAGGERATED FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES.
[quote=Opie Yutts]
And Phat, 5,000 lumens. How far from the plant? Lumens is a measurement of the light people see, not plants. But Iā??m sure you knew that. Is that close to what the plant sees at those nm?
-----------
5000 lm @ 16" to 18" with 2'x7' coverage=$1822 not 4000. (2' wide because of walls)
Just telling you what the tester reads if you think i'm wrong so be it.
Opie Yutts, What's up? Wavelenght's-is plural. Meaning many, There are 16.2 Billion different Colours you can blend with a LED!!! The extra energy from the correct spectrum is stored and then turns to suger which turn's to CB-THC. That's Botany 101. Later