ASTRO TRAVELLING..?

You have just gained my respect. Not that it matters much over the internet, but still..
Becuase i'm a lazy son-of-a-bitch and you're prolly right, i'll keep it short. By fighting our own desires, by approaching our beleifs with complete objectivity, aren't we taking away what makes us truly human? A computer has no concept of faith or love. These things cannot be proven, and neither can the psychic's claim of seeing ghostly being flit around her house. But by approaching an idea with a complete lack of previous instinctual function or natural psychological structure, you're looking at it like a cold calculating machine. Does formulating thoughts in this manner really make them more acceptable than how nature originally trained us to?
Actually you're right. When I think back on anything i've ever really accepted as a higher path of thought, I have needed to rid myself of natural frailties.
However, throughout evolution we've gained intelligence. Small anomalies of genius and creativity have pushed certain concepts onto the laps of those lesser beings, and they've developed the same ideas into structures of thought. But in the same essence, everything YOU are saying can be taken into account the same way. Eventually, we'll reach even higher levels of understanding, and we'll look back upon complete objective reasoning the same way as we would upon our natural instinctive security-impressioned ideas.
For now, I admit, complete objectivity IS the only way to truly look at something. But eventually, as we gain more usage of our minds and understanding of our reality, we may very well find a completely unimaginable (at the moment) truer way of formulating our ideas.
Agree or disagree?
either way i love talking about this.. :)

Also, just by thinking with words or thoughts you're still using a structure of security. You identify yourself as human. Sadly, we cannot overcome this, we're constricted to using human brain matter and only ten percent of this matter. To not think this way is unimaginable, at least without the aide of something, what that something is I don't know.
...Isn't it great to use your mind? I see so many humans just letting it rot, and I find it really hard not to feel superior...

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Originally Posted by Inferius

Also, just by thinking with words or thoughts you're still using a structure of security. You identify yourself as human. Sadly, we cannot overcome this, we're constricted to using human brain matter and only ten percent of this matter. To not think this way is unimaginable, at least without the aide of something, what that something is I don't know.
...Isn't it great to use your mind? I see so many humans just letting it rot, and I find it really hard not to feel superior...

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May I also say that you just gained my respect too, not that it matters much over the internet, but............:D

I don't have much time to respond right now, but I would like to continue this discussion soon. I also love to talk about stuff like this, but, as I am sure you know, most people do not. I also find it hard not to feel superior. :smokin:

It used to happen to me as a kid before I knew what drugs were.It might be why i started to experiment with drugs because it was so tripped out that drugs didnt scare me.I dont know if I was really out of my body or if I was dreaming of looking at myself.The reason I lean more towards OBE is because I felt myself rise up feet first then pop out of my head.It has only happened as an adult a handful of times.It dosnt feel like a dream,it feels absolutly real but the mind is powerful and im open to other expainations.

It's in a book,
You need to look.
:420thought:

Binz, mad props for the Wittgenstein. Seriously.

Having said that, there's no way you can think that the final proposition of the tractatus advances anything resembling a positive claim. Wittgenstein was reacting against the logical positivists who were trying to prove reality through the use of language. Wittgenstein demonstrated that our language is distinct from reality and only approaches it without ever really capturing it. But the man was quite a mystic actually.

Your notion that truth requires objectivity is completely unfounded and runs counter to the entire continental tradition. If you want to make that claim, make it, but give me a reason to follow you.

I'd push for a more post-stuctualist understanding myself that would see all the previous remnants as pointing in a parallax manner towards some unknowable, though not unapproachable, focus.

Meaning from the meaninglessness? More like how "A picture cannot, however, depict its form of representation; it can only show it."

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Originally Posted by Hamlet

When I was a child through some source I grabbed on to the notion of 'astral projection'. I read every book I could find on it and practiced for hours. I was completely obsessed with learning how to do it. --the ultimate escape. I had a few odd experiences but my conclusions are that it really doesn't exist. If you think about it a little bit; if someone could astral project they would be the most powerful person on the face of the earth. You could be the ultimate gov. spy. You would have unlimited access to wealth. Unlimited access to private information. Unlimited access to Angelina Jolie's shower....lol

So if it was real someone would have perfected it. But no one, in a controled situation, can project to another room and do something as simple as read a message written on a piece of paper there. (Amazing Randi is waiting).

Someone could argue that you only have access to the 'spirit realm'. But I kinda figure that's just the dream realm. Seems we're thoroughly trapped inside our heads unfortunately.

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from what i know/heard/read most ppl that can astral project are of pure/near pure hearts and/or minds, governments/government agencies etc. are the EXACT opposite, and no not jus any government, all governments in general

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Originally Posted by Renical

It used to happen to me as a kid before I knew what drugs were.It might be why i started to experiment with drugs because it was so tripped out that drugs didnt scare me.I dont know if I was really out of my body or if I was dreaming of looking at myself.The reason I lean more towards OBE is because I felt myself rise up feet first then pop out of my head.It has only happened as an adult a handful of times.It dosnt feel like a dream,it feels absolutly real but the mind is powerful and im open to other expainations.

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I know exactly what your talking about and to this day remember these experiences when I was very young. It kinda feels like an OBE but you still feel intact, kind of like your mind has gone up one notch. Its so bizarre, what are your explanations for this? And if anyone else knows anything about this chime in

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id12/pg1/
Well worth a puff and browse

heres what i think
if you can see, taste, touch, feel, smell or hear something, its real.
if you can put it on a table for everyone to see, its real.
if you have no way of doing this, its not.
of course, this could be argued with by asking "what about uranium? most people cant afford to get any, they couldnt set it on a table. does that make it not real?"
and i will prerespond to tis by saying, stfu.
you cannot put the emotion "happiness" on a table, but you CAN put the chemical in the brain that causes this on a table.
you cannot do this with god, only the bible, but......thats all bullshit, too many contradictions, been changed so many times, no supporting outside evidence for its truth, nothing. the only thing it has is...its true because it says it is.