Debate time for me, LT, and anyone else compotent. Stemcell research and abortion

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Every female on BCP is committing abortion. Birth Control Pills prevent implantation of a fertilized egg (ie, a bit of a problem for those life begins at fert). Going to stop morning after pills too? Deformed or chromosomal abhorations are to be kept also? Will the government that forces their birth also pay for their survival. Borderline survivals of premature chromosomally healthy children run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars just for their immediate survival. Who will take all the unwanted children, there are already hundreds of thousands. Viable life does not begin until around the 3rd trimester. So apparently these slave women forced into conscription by UnCosntitutional laws to carry a parasitic fetus, have no control over their lives or bodies? Who will be financially responsible for those that die or become vegetables, due to this conscription? Denying Constitutional Rights always produces more harm than benefit.

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Very well put. You pretty much said exactly what I was trying to articulate.

ok so this is my argument over the justification of abortion, just with a lot more letters.


The world's population is now about 5.9 billion and it is still expanding very rapidly, despite a marginal slowing over the last couple of years. Every day we share the Earth and its resources with 250,000 more people than the day before; every year, there are about another 90 million mouths to feed.
It is the equivalent of adding a Philadelphia to the world population every week; a Los Angeles every two weeks; a Mexico every year; and a US and Canada every three years.

http://www.dhushara.com/book/diversit/bomb.htm

"Viable life does not begin until around the 3rd trimester."

What is it that makes a life viable?

"Every female on BCP is committing abortion. Birth Control Pills prevent implantation of a fertilized egg (ie, a bit of a problem for those life begins at fert)".

Yes, they are self aborting a child if they use the morning after pill. If left alone a child would grow. If it is not aborting a life, what is it like clipping a toe nail or something?

"Going to stop morning after pills too?"

Maybe even rubbers too! Actualy, I think the morning after pill is the best way to go if your going to abort a child.

"Deformed or chromosomal abhorations are to be kept also?"

Yes Hitler, ever retards. No really though, if it can be proven that the child is going to be severly deformed or retarted, then the best thing to do may be to end the life before it has a chance to suffer.

"Will the government that forces their birth also pay for their survival."

No, the Tax payers would. Just like they do now. Say, why not just kill all the people the government has to pay for. Shit yeah, that would do away with welfare once and for all. Killing people because the government might have to pay to help them survive is not exactly something I wish to get started doing. It seems rather owellian to me. It reminds me of something Lenin might do, or hitler to for that matter.

"Borderline survivals of premature chromosomally healthy children run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars just for their immediate survival. Who will take all the unwanted children, there are already hundreds of thousands."

Who decides if the child is to deformed to live? Would you have the government force these abortions? If the government was going to have to pay, do you think it should be able to kill the life if it wants to, or do you think that should be left up to mom and dad?

"Viable life does not begin until around the 3rd trimester. "

Says you. I say different. I say without the fert of the egg, you would have no life. It is undeniable that life starts at the fert of the egg. There is no life before that happens, there is no life without that happing. To me, that means life begins there. I guess to you the begining of a horse race is a couple yards after they start running. For me the race begins when they jump out of the gate.

"So apparently these slave women forced into conscription by UnCosntitutional laws to carry a parasitic fetus, have no control over their lives or bodies?"

No one forced them to get fucked. Well, unless it was rape, but that falls under special conditions. Could you please tell me how come these girls figure is more importent then the lives of a child? Parasite??? Your kidding right? Do you have any children? Do you consider yourself a parasite?

Our government is in place to secure and keep secure our Freedoms and rights. It doesn't do that anymore, but that is the intent of it. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights. Life is to be protected as strictly as liberty. As you can see, both are under constent attack. What constitutional right does a women have to kill a child?

"Who will be financially responsible for those that die or become vegetables, due to this conscription?"

Money is not more importent then life. If you think it is, then you have a serious problem. You seem like maybe your the type that would let a pet die if it was going to cost you to have it cured. Are you that kind of person? Your trying to make this out to be about anything but healthy babies. I think you know good and well that most aborted children are perfectly healthy children. I guess you think that a person aborting a life because they just don't feel like having a child, or they don't want to get fat, or some other vain reason is a constitutional right also? Well I don't think it is. If the constitution protects anyone, it is the unborn childs right to life that it protects.

"Denying Constitutional Rights always produces more harm than benefit."

I won't argue with you on that. I will argue that your denying the childs right to life by killing it. I'm thinking a persons whole life is a little more importent then a few months of being prego. No one forced them to get fucked, remeber that? You are forcing the child to die though, and that is wrong.

Have you ever had an abortion? My sister had a few, and I can tell ya that it trumatized her every time. I couldn't let that happen to someone that was a part of me, and I now have 4 kids that do nothing but make my life worth living. You can tell yourself that it's ok to do it, and that it is not a life, but I think deep down inside you know that it is a life.

Toker

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Originally Posted by Torog

Until an instrument is devised that can detect the energy of the soul,no one can prove it with solid evidence,but I do believe that I 'felt' something very different,on the day that I concieved my daughter,and other folks have reported similar experiences as well.

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I see. Even though I have no children, I have concieved before (eventually lost to miscarriage), and I never felt anything. But then again, maybe I'm heartless. Who knows...
I still believe it's a matter of opinion as to when real life/soul is present.

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Originally Posted by Torog

In regards to abortion,I don't believe that woman has the 'right' to treat her unborn child as though it were a part of her body,that once the child's cells begin to grow,it becomes an independent life,that deserves protection and respect..and a woman has no more authority to end her child's life-than she would any adult's life. Once a child is concieved,the mother then becomes a vessel,to carry a Blessing from God,and she should put aside her own ego and wants,because the conception of the child,is greater than her and she should do all that she can,to nurture the child until it's born.

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Even though I don't agree with this, I respect your reasoning behind it. Personally though, I don't hold any life in higher regard than any other (baby/child or not), but that's just me. So of course, I am pro-choice. This world is becoming vastly overpopulated as it is.

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Originally Posted by HiGuy

You others that are for murder, lack of a soul belief and a person has the right to choose need some help and have issues.

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I'm sorry that you believe that everyone that does not see eye to eye with you 'has issues'. You must be one important person, if we are to base all of our beliefs with yours in order to be mentally stable.
But... I think I'll stick with my own thoughts, thank you.

Abortion is always going to happen. Although I am a religious man, I believe we need sensible laws and resrictions on it that are not mixed with religous beliefs. I would rather have a pro-choice country than a no-choice country where women have to resort to dangerous methods for abortion.

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Originally Posted by sawleaf

Abortion is always going to happen. Although I am a religious man, I believe we need sensible laws and resrictions on it that are not mixed with religous beliefs. I would rather have a pro-choice country than a no-choice country where women have to resort to dangerous methods for abortion.

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Agreed, but in England you can have an abortion up to 24weeks gestation.
My friends daughter was born at 22weeks and is now a bouncing ,screaming, "normal" :) 6yr old little girl.
I have seen images of 24wk gest. aborted fetuses, most with decapitated heads lying beside them in pics (sorry for horrific details) because they couldn't be aborted intact. This is barbaric :mad:

ya lulu...late term abortions are crude and inhumane. we can do better and i think few people that knew a little about it would disagree, too. ( isn't there a "morning after" shot or something that will terminate the pregnancy in it's embroyonic state? ) :confused:

The morning after pill works up to 72hours after intercourse and in some countries there is an abortion pill that can be used up to 9weeks (I think)but I'm unsure of the details.

"Even though I have no children, I have concieved before (eventually lost to miscarriage), and I never felt anything. But then again, maybe I'm heartless. Who knows..."

You did not kill the baby, it died. There is a difference.

Toker

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker

"Even though I have no children, I have concieved before (eventually lost to miscarriage), and I never felt anything. But then again, maybe I'm heartless. Who knows..."

You did not kill the baby, it died. There is a difference.

Toker

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Well yes, you're right about that.
I probably worded that incorrectly. Trust me, I felt nothing but sorrow when my girlfriend had to go in for the DNC procedure...

I meant to say that I never felt anything at the time of conception. No new life or soul or anything, as Torog stated. But now that I think about it, I guess that's a matter of spirituality to begin with, which is something that I am not into. So who knows, really...

Ah, this kind of talk is depressing me. I could use a fat joint right here and now.