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Originally Posted by puffpuffand away
Right on BRO... that is firm. i always trip out how jehovas witness are VERY religous even when it comes to talking about god they are sooo convinced.. they are solid in their beliefs and u can only respect that.
I pray to God every day. Prayer is an invitation by God to come into His presence. That is the real purpose of prayer. There really is no greater joy than to be in the Divine presence of the Living God.
Try prayer for 30 days. Suspend your disbelief. If not fully satisfied, simply return your prayer for a full refund.
Prayer is begging - to something, or somebody, that is just a figment of your imagination.
I'm not fighting. I'm just presenting my point of view, backed by logical arguments, that prayer could not possibly have the slightest impact on the universe even if a god/gods existed. Think about it for a second. If there is such thing as a being which knows all your thoughts, all your desires, and everything there is to know about the past, present and future, what does prayer accomplish? What is the point of communicating anything to a perfect intelligence which already knows everything? You can't give a god any new information, or change a god's mind about anything, or get a god to change its already-formulated plans as to what the future will contain. Anyone who gives the subject five minutes of rational thought will come to the conclusion that prayer is simply a waste of time, whether the universe is godless or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nylo
Forget rationality. There is a tremendous amount of which you are uninformed, ill informed, Ignorant actually. You also do not understand the sweeping structure that the dominion mandate established. To argue your points here as I have seen, Your embarrassing your self........Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything. Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite. at the other. Preaching your own religious ideology. You know blessed little about scripture, to claim that it says one thing or the other. I would suggest you begin by studying the Dominion Mandate, and don't give me the crap from your spin doctors, on the subject. Sorry, I have gotten a bit weary of your BS. The religious self righteousness you have plastered all over your page. It's mocking, rude, ... You may understand...but you mirror the religious hypocrites, that plaster their critical judgemental views. Do you despise religious hypocrites? Check your self out, Many many things come back as self hate>>> Deal with it...the comparison is poor ........ I don't know any religious christian, that displays their mean correctness in such an arrogant way as you and others. It's pathetic dude. Wash your car... Your bumper stickers also just minimize you further.
Start respecting your self. Your smarter than this.
Breuk, both of you Religious Hypocrites, mocking judgemental, the worst don't come close to you two.
Bear with me for a moment...I challenge you to actually read this post. :thumbsup:
I think this makes alot of sense. There are always three sides to the story, if not more, and the truth is always found somewhere in between all sides. I tend to agree with the physicalists on this one because I have a hard time accepting anything with does not seem scientific in nature or seem to even have a logical way of proving its disputed existence; however, I will also admit that Braddoghas an extremely valid point.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. KRISHNAMURTI
Now don't get me wrong folks...I like, actually, I LOVE to argue just as much as the next guy...but when it comes to something like prayer...I mean, if it makes people feel better, why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Braddog10
I don't pray very much nowadays but I used to everynight. :smokin:
No! Rationality is the only way to make sense of the world. If we're just going to throw it out the window, we can't come to know anything. We have to apply logic to our observations about the universe if we're going to get anywhere in our understanding of how things work.Quote:
Originally Posted by braddog10
Right...what's your point? Everybody is ignorant about the vast majority of information stored in the universe. Just because I don't know everything there is to know doesn't mean I can't know anything.Quote:
There is a tremendous amount of which you are uninformed, ill informed, Ignorant actually.
What are you talking about? Dominion mandate?Quote:
You also do not understand the sweeping structure that the dominion mandate established. To argue your points here as I have seen, Your embarrassing your self........
Not really. I try to back my arguments up with logic and reason. I am always willing to change my mind about something. Show me where I'm wrong and I'll happily agree with you.Quote:
I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything.
Atheism is not a religion. It is nothing more than the lack of a belief in gods. A religion is a structured belief system about the supernatural. If atheism is a religion, then clear is a color.Quote:
Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite. at the other. Preaching your own religious ideology.
Who are you to say what I know and don't know? Obviously I haven't had the time to read the holy scriptures of every religion on the planet, but I do spend a lot of time reading the Bible, the Qur'an, etc. In fact, that's what I did for much of my afternoon yesterday. I am trying to find out to the best of my abilities what these scriptures are teaching. I just don't see any good reason to believe that any of these books are true regarding claims of the supernatural.Quote:
You know blessed little about scripture, to claim that it says one thing or the other.
What is this Dominion Mandate? Is it a holy scripture that has some evidence to back it up? If so, please show me the evidence. If it is convincing enough, I'll be delighted to believe whatever it says.Quote:
I would suggest you begin by studying the Dominion Mandate, and don't give me the crap from your spin doctors, on the subject.
If what I am saying is bullshit (I thought you were trying not to be rude), then please, show me the flaws in my logic and I will be more than happy to correct them. I am always trying to correct the flaws in my knowledge, so as to become a wiser person.Quote:
Sorry, I have gotten a bit weary of your BS.
My page? Huh? I'm just trying to uphold my opinions, because I believe my opinions to be correct. That's what makes them my opinions. If my opinions are wrong, tell me why they are wrong. Don't just say "you're wrong because you think you're so right". Of course I think I'm right. But if I'm wrong about something, I want to know what that something is and what the truth is. I'm always glad to have somebody prove me wrong so I can become smarter.Quote:
The religious self righteousness you have plastered all over your page.
If you don't have anything substantive to say about my opinions, why are you even talking? Don't just attack me for being "arrogant" and "pathetic". If you don't like my point of view, show me why my point of view is incorrect already!Quote:
It's mocking, rude, ... You may understand...but you mirror the religious hypocrites, that plaster their critical judgemental views. Do you despise religious hypocrites? Check your self out, Many many things come back as self hate>>> Deal with it...the comparison is poor ........ I don't know any religious christian, that displays their mean correctness in such an arrogant way as you and others. It's pathetic dude.
If you don't like reading people's arguments for why their opinions are correct, then don't read what they have to write. But if you actually have something to say about those opinions, go right ahead. Fruitful debate is how we expand human knowledge. Just shutting up and keeping all our opinions to ourselves isn't going to get us anywhere, and neither is all this childish name-calling of yours.
You haven't even addressed my line of reasoning for why I think prayer can't possibly do anything. If you think I'm wrong about that, just tell me why. Tell me how prayer could possibly do anything if there's a God who already knows everything there is to know, and I'll be glad to retract my earlier statements. You seem to think that I'm fixated in some sort of dogmatic ideology. I'm not. I just found a really good logical argument against prayer, and no counter-argument has yet convinced me that it doesn't hold.
I don't have a car.Quote:
Wash your car... Your bumper stickers also just minimize you further.
Why do you think I'm not respecting myself?Quote:
Start respecting your self.
I'm smarter than what? Myself?Quote:
Your smarter than this.
I don't see what's wrong with mocking silly ideas that have no logic or evidence to back them up. Mockery, combined with a little logic, can be a powerful tool for helping others to critically think about things we take for granted in this society.Quote:
Breuk, both of you Religious Hypocrites, mocking judgemental, the worst don't come close to you two.
When you "forget rationality", as you urged me to do at the beginning of your post, you have nothing to fall back on except blind faith, beliefs held because of tradition, authority, wild speculation, or wishful thinking. I don't want to think like that. I want to actually look at the world and understand how it works as best as I can. In my quest for knowledge about the universe, I have not found one good logical argument, or one good observation, which would lead me to believe that prayer could possibly do anything. And until someone does, I won't believe it. I can't believe it. For the same reason that I can't just close my eyes and say "I believe in unicorns" and really mean it. I need to be shown why something is true, especially if it conflicts with my own common sense and what I observe. All you're offering is an ad hominem attack on me because apparently you don't like the idea that I think my own opinions are correct, or maybe you don't like the idea that I'm basing my opinions on rationality. What do you want me to do, say that my opinions are wrong? Reject logical thinking altogether?
Because it encourages people to not actually do something about their problems. If you think God will take care of things for you, why bother doing anything yourself? To take an extreme example, Christian Scientists do not believe in medicine; they believe, however, that prayer can heal people. That can be a very damaging belief. Besides that, prayer and other beliefs in supernatural/paranormal claims encourage sloppy thinking and a blatant disregard for rationalism and the scientific method. Am I going to stop anybody from praying? Of course not. But I don't see what's wrong with informing someone when they're doing something very silly and illogical, like praying to a God who supposedly knows all your thoughts anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binzhoubum
Howdy cannabis,Quote:
Originally Posted by cannabis campbell
Every single day,at the beginning of the day and when I go to bed at night. I pray throughout the day,for those in need and for those who need protection,I pray for many of our members here and I pray when I hear an Amber Alert on the tv,I even pray for Peace..but I'm prudent enough to know-that I must prepare for war,as well.
After reading the replies to yer question,in this thread,it's apparent that there's alot of praying to be done for the folks here..it's so sad to see so many who've lost touch with their souls and with God. Yet,increasing numbers of folks,are trying to git in touch with their spirituality..how can one be spiritual -- but deny their Creator and Saviour ?
How can one toke marijuana and not realize,that only a loving God,is capable of creating a plant that can help so many different folks with so many different needs ?
Thanx to the advent of modern liberalism,folks have become cynical,jaded and pessimistic..those in such a state,are gonna be out of touch with their souls and God,I reckon.
Have a good one ! :stoned: :)
Your rationale is refreshing Oneironaut and sorely needed.
Growing up in Church I eventually came to the conclusion that since the conversation was one-sided in prayer, what was the use of begging God for things, (which is pretty much all prayer consisted of, besides the grandiose, ornate ones intended for the congregation to hear). God is going to do what he's going to do and I'm in no position to change his mind or talk him out of it.
But your rationality about such matters, which would apply so perfectly to machines, physics, computers and such, gets muddled up in the human equasion. Science is saying now that our psyches are hardwired for religion and it's something that's probably not going to go away. From a scientific/Darwinian perspective it must have some value as a survival mechanism or it would have passed out of existence in the natural order of things.
The human psyche is very fragile. (read a few posts on here if you desire some proof of that fact) It craves stability and yearns for some kind of hope. I've discovered through experience that the secret to happiness is being able to trust the 'Universe'.--God's in his heaven and all is well." This may or may not be so, but in the midst of all this maddness the world throws at us, some how, in some form we need that psychological anchor to hold on to just to keep on keepin' on.
Even the most logical thinkers/skeptics cling to something-science, the this-therefore-that of philosophy, the church of academics-to the point of zealously and dogmatically defending their beliefs with a foaming lather. Just check out the good professor in the link to 'Root of All Evil' on another thread. He's not trying to investigate or learn, he's out to pick a fight-to defend his own faith.
So, yes I would say prayer has it's place-if for nothing else as an emotional and pyschological safety valve in a hostile and uncertain universe.
And who knows, maybe God is listening--(oh, for those of you who actually hear him talking back, ask him a question for me- 'why nipples on men?')