Supreme Court deems "intelligent design" unconstitutional in public schools

Yep, I agree that people who don't like that line, whether Athiest, Buddhist, Hindu, or space alien, should just skip it. I used to condsider myself an Athiest, until Breukelen advocaat pointed out that I'd have to disrespect everyone else if I was, so now I'm just a guy who doesn't believe in God. In any case, I don't have a problem with that line. I see it as a tradition, that's all. Like wishing people Merry Christmas. It's been in the pledge long before the U.S. was the multi-cultural and multi-religion country that we now are. When I was in school I just skipped it. It never did me any damage.

I agree with you that the pledge is a lesson on loyalty. When I pointed out that it was brianwashing I didn't mean it in the negative sense and wasn't thinking of the "under God" line. I was just refering to the method of delivery: everyday and word for word. Very simlilar to the scripts followed by most religions in the "teaching" of children.

All this "Under God" and "In God We Trust" bullshit started in the 1950's, when the "cold war" was at it's zenith.

With regards to uttering an oath that I do not believe in, I am not going to "just skip it". Although I am "godless", I am anything but a "communist" (see below).

Here is part of an article about the Pledge, from a couple of years ago. I didn't post the entire article - but it's not very long and I gave the link.

The origin of â??Under Godâ?� in the Pledge:

In 1953, the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic fraternal organization, lobbied to amend the Pledge in their effort to galvanize Americans against the country's enemies. The group urged Congress to add "under God" in order to make official what they believed to be essential for distinguishing genuine Americans from "godless communists." The next year, the Reverend George Docherty became a catalyst for their cause by preaching "one nation under God" with President Eisenhower in attendance. The Scottish minister had come to Washington's historic New York Avenue Presbyterian Church several years earlier from the homogeneous British culture where he assumed that, "It was everybody's belief that God was part of society."1 Without the phrase 'under God,'" Docherty said, "the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag might have been recited with similar sincerity by Muscovite children." (This assumes that a Soviet dictator would have permitted his subjects to express a longing for democratic liberty and justice. Docherty also unintentionally gave affront to atheistic service personnel who have fought and died for America in every war when he declared that "an atheistic American is a contradiction in terms.")[/I]http://www.secularhumanism.org/index...ge=phipps_24_3

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

Thanks for rubbing it in asshole ;)

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Well if it is true that it takes one to know one I must be an asshole because I recognize Bush as one. LOL

At least as a Canadian I am proud to say we don't go into other countries picking useless stupid fights (wars, police actions, etc.). If your country is so hard up for a reliable energy source, instead of going to war to get oil, why not convert to solar power, wind power, etc.???

I gotta agree with the brain washing theme though. Too much of that going on in the world. Most of it is subliminal. Notice, that Canadians don't have a "pledge of alligiance". Doesn't necessarily make us better, just different. I don't think your pledge is brainwashing though - it is a sign of loyalty to the nation. I also agree with the comments about religious factions wanting religion back in schools. I've seen how Christians, notably the Salvation Army church, teach the children that anyone who does not believe in God or is gay, bi, les, whatever is wrong and those people will burn in hell. Poor kids! They are also taught that anyone who likes to dance or listens to R&R music is a heathen. That must be tough crap to grow up with. I think basic religion should be taught in elementary school but it should teach the variety of religions available, not just one. Just like kids are taught about diffferent countries, etc. leaving it to high school or college is too long. Little kids ask questions that need answers and truthful answers.

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Originally Posted by mfactor420

Well if it is true that it takes one to know one I must be an asshole because I recognize Bush as one. LOL

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I guess you can't count me in too then. To bad there weren't more assholes in this country. We're the ones who knew not to vote for Bush.

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

I guess you can't count me in too then. To bad there weren't more assholes in this country. We're the ones who knew not to vote for Bush.

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Yes, but if Michael Moore (Farenheit 9/11) is right, Bush cheated his way into office 2x. How does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Oh well, you can boot him out next time.

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Originally Posted by mfactor420

Oh well, you can boot him out next time.

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Can? ...no no. We WILL boot him out. He WILL be gone. That's how I make it through my day.

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Originally Posted by mfactor420

Yes, but if Michael Moore (Farenheit 9/11) is right.

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LOL....And Santa Clause is coming to town too! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

I agree with ya on everything except for the Pledge. I think, in a way, this is the first real lesson to kids about loyalty. Some of these NARCS should have listened to the words and meaning instead of just memorize and talk.

The big hangup on the Pledge seems to be the phrase "One Nation Under God"....which God, other religions assume it's the Christians God and the Athiests just have a problem with it all together. I think the Athiests could skip a line without having a fit...don't you?

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My main objection to the pledge is actually the training of children to pledge their allegience to things they don't begin to understand. This is indeed the first real lesson to kids about loyalty, that is the problem. Loyalty should be earned, not given.

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Originally Posted by andruejaysin

My main objection to the pledge is actually the training of children to pledge their allegience to things they don't begin to understand. This is indeed the first real lesson to kids about loyalty, that is the problem. Loyalty should be earned, not given.

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"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

"We the people" includes the soldiers that have given their lives for over the last 200 years. I don't understand how you can feel that this isn't earned....it's a matter of respect! :thumbsup: